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11/27/2012 07:46:12 AM · #1 |
This is really challenge related, but I couldn't find a spot for it under challenges, so I thought I try it here.
I am a little confused when it comes to the rules of Advanced editing (I know they are all there to read, and I have, but just hear me out).
This was my submission for the "Triangles" challenge and it is a good example of what I would like to ask.
Using layers, which is allowed according to the rules, I can change the BG ... but to what extend? I know I can lighten/darken/blur etc., but how MUCH lightening for example? Because I could lighten/contrast it so much, that the shadows disapeared ... now apart from the fact I didn't like it much without shadows, I would have also "taken things out" (the shadow) of the image, which isn't allowed according to the rules. The same if I had darkened it to black - the shadows would have disapeared.
I suppose, one could achieve the same result with "other" objects which could in theory be in an image and by altering the BG with "nothing more" than some contrast/brighness adjustment, you can make things vanish ...
Reading some comments on my submission, clearly some members think it would be perfectly acceptable to take the shadows out and/or change the BG to black - is it, or is it not?
I would appreciate feedback on this, so I know what I can and can not do next time round.
Thanks everyone |
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11/27/2012 07:57:39 AM · #2 |
| It's a touchy topic, I think you'd be ok since the final depiction isn't really changed from the original by modifying the background. |
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11/27/2012 08:44:35 AM · #3 |
I'm one who thought it might look nice against a solid white or black background - but I was not trying to say changing the background in THIS image would be okay in Advanced. I'm pretty sure it would not. I shot this image  into the light. The background was blown and it was very easy to push it to white with curves when I converted from RAW. I liked the plain background but was nervous. Since I was considering it for a FS and had taken it the first weekend of the month, I had time to ask SC. They said I could not lose the background completely, so I reprocessed from the original and ended up liking it - just as  kasaba likes the shadow in hers :) |
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11/27/2012 12:10:49 PM · #4 |
i have a strong memory of an entry from about a year ago that was dq'ed for exactly what you're describing.....the background was darkened until an object in the image was "hidden". I think that's the key to watch for, if a feature is made invisible by lightening or darkening that is illegal.
of course, a ticket to the SC from Help/Contact Us is always good for a semi-legal opinion from the site council....just send it well in advance of the challenge deadline so they have time to get more unofficial opinions from their members. |
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11/27/2012 01:11:14 PM · #5 |
I have been DQ'ed for changing a lawn background to a smooth area in converting the image from colour to B&W.
You will be in trouble if the change is too strong/dramatic, but that is not a definite line, each image will be different. Best to ask SC beforehand how they see it.
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11/27/2012 10:21:51 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by FourPointX:
i have a strong memory of an entry from about a year ago that was dq'ed for exactly what you're describing.....the background was darkened until an object in the image was "hidden". I think that's the key to watch for, if a feature is made invisible by lightening or darkening that is illegal.
of course, a ticket to the SC from Help/Contact Us is always good for a semi-legal opinion from the site council....just send it well in advance of the challenge deadline so they have time to get more unofficial opinions from their members. |
Joe's likely referring to this photo
Discussion is here.
Tread lightly in this type of editing and be cautious about how FAR you push things.
The irony of this type of a ruling is that in Basic you CAN remove stuff if you use legal tools (levels or curves, for instance) but you can't in Advanced.
Message edited by author 2012-11-27 22:27:11. |
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11/27/2012 10:48:46 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
The irony of this type of a ruling is that in Basic you CAN remove stuff if you use legal tools (levels, for instance) but you can't in Advanced. |
I don't think this is true. If anyone has been validated while removing things with legal tools in basic editing, I'd like to see the example(s). Or have SC weigh in. To my knowledge, if you make a large change even with 'legal' tools used globally, that constitutes a 'feature' = not kosher. (Typically with the exception of global color changes.)
You may not:
-use ANY editing tool to create new image area, objects or features (such as vignettes, lens flare or motion) that didn’t already exist in your original capture.
You may:
-use filters or stand-alone utilities designed to preserve image integrity (such as Neat Image, Unsharp Mask, Dust & Scratches, and color correction tools). These filters must be applied uniformly to the entire image, and must not be used in such a way that their use becomes a feature. No “effects” filters may be applied to your image, with the exception of Noise and Gaussian Blur.
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11/28/2012 12:07:26 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by skewsme:
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
The irony of this type of a ruling is that in Basic you CAN remove stuff if you use legal tools (levels, for instance) but you can't in Advanced. |
I don't think this is true. |
Oh, it is. You are allowed to use curves, for instance, in any way possible, even to extremes, as long as the tool is used globally. So you could suppress a dark but detailed background, and it's perfectly legal in Basic, whereas the same change in Advanced is not legal. |
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11/28/2012 12:40:42 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
[quote=FourPointX]
Joe's likely referring to this photo
Discussion is here.
Tread lightly in this type of editing and be cautious about how FAR you push things.
The irony of this type of a ruling is that in Basic you CAN remove stuff if you use legal tools (levels or curves, for instance) but you can't in Advanced. |
Thank you for this link - WOW! Great editing. That is exactly what I was refering to though - use legal tools to what extend? ... Even brings Gaussian blurring into question, because boy, can you get rid of a lot of "stuff" with that :-).
Sending it to SC ... that always assumes you are ready with a submission IN TIME - LOL - around here that ususally doesn't happen, but thank you, I didn't know they would handle that sort of "minor" queries as well.
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11/28/2012 12:45:21 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by skewsme:
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
The irony of this type of a ruling is that in Basic you CAN remove stuff if you use legal tools (levels, for instance) but you can't in Advanced. |
I don't think this is true. |
Oh, it is. You are allowed to use curves, for instance, in any way possible, even to extremes, as long as the tool is used globally. So you could suppress a dark but detailed background, and it's perfectly legal in Basic, whereas the same change in Advanced is not legal. |
How about some examples of actual entries that were validated? Why wouldn't that new dark/absence of detail be a new feature? I have seen you defend this before, but not any current SC. From the perspective of someone who has pushed edits and been through many, many validations, I'd consider it a risky tack to take in basic editing, even if it is a stupid loophole in the ruleset. |
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11/28/2012 12:46:37 AM · #11 |
Thank you everyone for posting.
Just shows me that sometimes things ARE as confusing as they seem :-).
Lesson 1: if in doubt send to SC
Lesson 2: err on the side of caution
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