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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Opinions on Windows 8?
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 11/13/2012 11:05:43 PM · #26
I installed it on my laptop and it is extremely fast...especially fast to boot or shut down. I just booted from power up in less than 15 seconds. And I just have a regular 5400 rpm hard drive. (Though in this case, as usual, my laptop was hibernated to disk rather than a cold boot.

The "metro" screen works as a very nice start menu actually...especially if you have touch (my laptop is a convertible). On my Win7 desktop, I use Fences to organize icons for a lot of programs I use...I use far too many to put all in a single start menu (though I do). So then I end up with submenus. I like the fences desktop. Well the new "metro" screen is really a lot like that, except you can have live info for programs if you want.

On the other hand, just to have the best of both worlds, today I installed Pokki, which is a free Start Menu replacement which uses the data from the Metro desktop so you don't have to keep two sets of installed info. At least that's true in theory...I just installed it today, so the jury is out on it. But so far it looks nice.

There are a few such free replacements (and a $5 one from the makers of Fences, which might be worth a look).

11/14/2012 01:43:02 AM · #27
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Windows 8 phones have been out for at least a year although they haven't had much marketing support. Critics have generally liked them.


They only started unveiling and releasing Windows 8 phones a couple of months ago. Some of those phones haven't even been released for sale yet. What have I missed here?

Dave
 11/14/2012 10:29:50 AM · #28
Impressions so far:

The bad:

switching between clsasic view and metro view is a bit smidgy. Single click in classic often translates to program run instead of double click. This is annoying when copy/pasting. Windows wont switch classically tiled programs in classic mode to tiles and there seems to be some confusion so far over the dual screen mode (ones classic ones metro) I'll have to research this

Copy pasting has a higher level of Authorization required when dealing with program files (1 extra click) also annoying and i'll have to figure out a work around.

i also feel the distinction between a local account admin vs signed on is not clear and I'll have to read into that.
I dont use a password screen for my desktop and would like to do the same, but am concerned about the ramifications about doing that for a signed in account.

Some compatibility issues required downloading certain uodates, and time consuming re-authorizations but this is part of the process of switching OS.

The good:

Very quick and stable so far. Open/close is instantaneous and theres pretty excellent compatibility with all my programs so far. Some (including catalyst) required updates, but all are working thus far.

Tile system is very intuitive for me as I am very "visual" and the single button switch to classic helps the transition. The charms bar is also pretty useful. i am also finding myself using my wacom a bit more than my mouse 0.o donno if its a good thing but it definitely feels right. The mouse works fine as well but, the wacom just feels better.

New search system is impressive: quick & more useful compared to previous iterations. Its also integrated into the apps (Store for example) and thats pretty sexy. It also allows a decent amount of visibility for settings/admin tools and i feel that a step in the right direction (eliminating steps for the casual and the moderate power users)

All files were preserved. No issues with lost data or inability to transfer thus far.

Final thoughts:

Still getting used to it. Liking some things, finding others annoying. No deal breakers, plenty of nice surprises. So far so good.

11/14/2012 01:59:42 PM · #29
Good thoughts, thanks! I will be putting hardware together for a basic but capable little i5 box this evening, loading the OS either tonight or tomorrow. Will be an interesting process.
I'm wondering how fast the OS load will go... I'm loading the OS from a USB 3.0 stick and loading it to an SSD :-)
 11/14/2012 02:09:30 PM · #30
dude, usb 3.0 and ssds make me so so happy..
 11/14/2012 02:11:56 PM · #31
Originally posted by Devinder:
dude, usb 3.0 and ssds make me so so happy..


Yep!
SSDs make me happy, but STDs do not! ;-)
 11/14/2012 02:40:19 PM · #32
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by Devinder:
dude, usb 3.0 and ssds make me so so happy..


Yep!
SSDs make me happy, but STDs do not! ;-)

Especially if it's not just GC but you have a positive RPR (formerly VDRL) and need to get injections of PCN!

My guess, USB 3 > SSD between 3-8 seconds (copying, not necessarily "installing").
 11/14/2012 02:46:12 PM · #33
My honest advice is: don't upgrade yet. Playing for a while with it and yes, it's a lot faster than Windows 7. But most companies aren't ready yet for this, so if you're using non-Microsoft software you'll better wait for a while (although Adobe does a great job).

Just getting crazy with the Canon software, it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't work and I can't connect remotely to my work anymore (not with Windows 8)
 11/14/2012 02:46:40 PM · #34
Too many TLAs!

ETA: LOL! :-)

Message edited by author 2012-11-14 14:47:07.
 11/14/2012 02:52:43 PM · #35
Traditionally, every second Windows release has been a mega-flop. I would at least wait and let others be the guinea-pigs.
 11/14/2012 03:48:58 PM · #36
Guess I like to be a guinea-pig, so ignore my complaints :) Surprise, surprise. Just installed the latest updates and some things starts working again. Just wondering why you can't get any notifications about available updates.
 11/14/2012 03:51:38 PM · #37
Since it was only 40 bucks to upgrade, I don't think this will be a mega-flop. It's just basically Windows 7 + Metro Screen option. For just my home use, I like Windows 8. If you upgrade, just click the "desktop" tile and voila, everything is there just like you left it. Other than a couple nit-picky things, there's not much to get used to. 99% of the time, I'm on the normal desktop. I just visit the metro screen when I'm bored and want to check out some apps.

For $40 my computer is now a little snappier and I've got the metro interface if I want to use it. Not bad.
 11/14/2012 03:52:45 PM · #38
Has anyone installed it on an older box as an upgrade to XP?
 11/14/2012 03:55:46 PM · #39
I ran the compatibility checker on my main desktop at home, and I came out with 60 items compatible, 13 requiring attention. All of the 13 items were software, and about half were "update available." I had no major software that will not work at all; one application supposedly requires a paid upgrade but I bet I can get it to run.
I don't plan on upgrading that machine until at least Spring. Then we'll see. If I do upgrade it, it will be as part of an upgrade to the boot disk (to SSD) and memory (from 8GB to 16GB of slightly faster RAM).
 11/14/2012 04:01:21 PM · #40
Short version - do NOT do an upgrade.

I RARELY go early... but got burnt one of the few times I do (figured out my issue from earlier).... bottom line - They LIE about compatibility, so be careful about upgrading.

I have an older P4 chip that apparently does NOT have the NX feature available [it's not easy to figure that out], so win8 will install fine but refuses to boot (and does NOT rollback as the install says at the start). They leave you stuck.... I went and got the latest bios and flashed that in the hope the chip supports it (most P4's do) but most people would not be up for that and it did NOT actually help since no support at all....... Back to XP for this machine.

What's worse to me... I see that they did not force this in the preview versions but decided to make it "easier" for customers to just brick their machine by forcing it in the release cand..... It should be CLEARLY listed as a pre-req and what's listed as a pre-req will almost certainly fail as older machines will not have this feature in the chip. The blowhard from microsloth seems to believe that crap from the quote I saw.

Slimey because now I gave them some of my $$ for nothing.... Oh well - my fault and will just use it on a laptop I guess for no reason.
 11/14/2012 04:27:21 PM · #41
Robs, I think you're right about not upgrading for the moment. But at least you don't have to buy a new machine for it (an old Apple habit).
 11/14/2012 07:07:23 PM · #42
Originally posted by hajeka:
Robs, I think you're right about not upgrading for the moment. But at least you don't have to buy a new machine for it (an old Apple habit).

If I want to run win8 on that box that is EXACTLY what I would have to do..... They chose to not allow an install on some older CPU's for no reason (the preview ran without this restriction) but because they want to make themselves look better with less page faults. My issue is it's NOT listed on the min system requirements and it essentially bricks the machines unless you know how to break the fail and reinstall the old OS......
 11/14/2012 08:25:27 PM · #43
i thought the nx bit was only necessary for extra ram allocation on 32 bit 0.o didn't really look into it since i m running a 2600k. Best of luck
 11/14/2012 08:33:48 PM · #44
Originally posted by Devinder:
i thought the nx bit was only necessary for extra ram allocation on 32 bit 0.o didn't really look into it since i m running a 2600k. Best of luck

Nah - it's use as protected memory to avoid viruses and programs that might make the os unstable by stomping on storage..... I understand why they want it active - but I should have the choice and it NOT be fatal on reboot after the install. On top of that, the way it's handles is POOR resulting in a dead machine - which a lot of people might not figure out.
 11/14/2012 09:04:08 PM · #45
I'm pretty sure every pc has supported NX for at least the past 5 years. Intel chips have supported NX since 2004, and AMD chips have supported it even longer. Windows itself has had NX support since sometime in the XP timeframe, 2005 or 2006, I think. Are you sure you don't just have NX turned off in the bios?
 11/14/2012 09:10:07 PM · #46
Originally posted by Ann:
I'm pretty sure every pc has supported NX for at least the past 5 years. Intel chips have supported NX since 2004, and AMD chips have supported it even longer. Windows itself has had NX support since sometime in the XP timeframe, 2005 or 2006, I think. Are you sure you don't just have NX turned off in the bios?

Nah.... I flashed the latest bios to be sure... It's a intel P4 but I guess JUST a tad too old..... Shame because it's got more then enough power as it was a real expensive machine at the time.
 11/14/2012 11:30:56 PM · #47
Sorry about your misfortunes Rob.

I hope you made an image backup before installing...I always do that. Though I've never had to use one after an install. For the record, I though the term "bricked" only applies to permanent disablement of the machine, like if a EEPROM upgrade goes bad, or Apple decides to brick you for jailbreaking your phone. In this case, your "hosed" but not bricked. Well that's what I call it. ;)

I presume you didn't reformat, so all your data should still be there. You can just reinstall your old system, even without a backup...assuming you have media! Or maybe try to boot with your old media and do a repair?

I did have one problem when I upgraded my HP TM2 laptop...for some reason, it would not run the setup in upgrade mode. I had to do a clean install. But even then, it saved all my data (I didn't reformat) and even the old Windows and Program files folders. From what I read others have had better luck on the TM2, but it was no big deal...it's usually better to clean install anyway. I just didn't want to spend time reinstalling apps.

Today, I went in search of the latest drivers, and now I have my fingerprint reader working, and the rotate button (mine's a convertible, so in tablet mode, you need to be able to rotate to the orientation you want). Everything's working well.

Looking at recent marketing, I see why Microsoft has designed this now. The point isn't about tablets--it's about convertibles. I think it's great...I got my first convertible about 8 years ago, and support for tablet features has never really been good enough. Now I'm on my third generation of convertible tablet (the first one that supports touch), and finally, it's REALLY both a tablet and a laptop. Well, it's still a bit heavy for a tablet, but I don't have to carry multiple devices when I travel.

11/15/2012 11:16:50 AM · #48
my rule of thumb. never spend more than 1500 on a machine. makes for less regret 4 YEARS later. Current machine cost me $1140 (counting the win8 upgrade). I will be unhappy if it doesnt last me through 2015.

Message edited by author 2012-11-15 11:18:19.
 11/15/2012 11:49:06 AM · #49
Originally posted by robs:
Originally posted by Ann:
I'm pretty sure every pc has supported NX for at least the past 5 years. Intel chips have supported NX since 2004, and AMD chips have supported it even longer. Windows itself has had NX support since sometime in the XP timeframe, 2005 or 2006, I think. Are you sure you don't just have NX turned off in the bios?

Nah.... I flashed the latest bios to be sure... It's a intel P4 but I guess JUST a tad too old..... Shame because it's got more then enough power as it was a real expensive machine at the time.


Darn. The first P4's shipped in 2000, so a non-NX P4 is 8-12 years old. The good news is, Moore's law being what it is, you could probably get a 5 year old box that's just as powerful and has NX support for $200.
 11/15/2012 07:51:12 PM · #50
In the past 20 years I've only had 2 computers. My current is 6 years old. But the difference for me is that I built both of them, upgrading necessary parts as needed, and building for future needs. With that said, I think I got lucky with the first 14 years, and perhaps with the speed that technology is moving now I don't know if I'll get 8 years before having to do some larger upgrade. FWIW: 1st system used and Intel processor, I'm using AMD now.

Originally posted by Devinder:
my rule of thumb. never spend more than 1500 on a machine. makes for less regret 4 YEARS later. Current machine cost me $1140 (counting the win8 upgrade). I will be unhappy if it doesnt last me through 2015.


Message edited by author 2012-11-15 19:52:03.
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