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Showing posts 501 - 525 of 579, (reverse)
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 11/13/2012 02:51:26 PM · #501
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
He was fighting the changes in medicare that were immediate

OK, here's the [url= //www.healthcare.gov/law/timeline/full.html#2011]list of changes[/url]. Which immediate changes in Medicare was he fighting against?
 11/13/2012 03:10:02 PM · #502
I am sure they were they started with the "free preventative care" that went into effect in 2010.He was always fighting for payment for services. A doc is not going to go through years of school and not get paid. I am not sure which one he was suing over or which ones.

list of changes]fixed your link
 11/13/2012 03:17:31 PM · #503
Hostess

Hostess is closing 3 bakeries....one reason is healthcare costs... I see a trend here.
 11/13/2012 03:18:03 PM · #504
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
If my calcs are correct the diff is $ 6.278 trillion

And of that, $1.44T are costs associated with Obama's policies, half of which was a one-time stimulus expense that ended the recession in 6 months.
 11/13/2012 03:31:55 PM · #505
Have you not been paying attention....Our economy is still in a huge shambles. In my neck of the woods there has been very little in the form of change......and recession...it is debateable if we are out of the recession yet or not.
 11/13/2012 03:33:58 PM · #506
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
That is $ 1.921 tril more in 4 years that Bush had in 8 years and fighting 2 wars

You expected Obama to immediately cease paying for those two wars Bush started (even if he could), or for Congress to suddenly start billing the taxpayer for them? That part of the increase in debt is still the responsibility of the implimentation of Bush's policies, not Obama's.
 11/13/2012 03:44:13 PM · #507
4 years is plenty of time to redirect....and something like Obamacare to be passed in a recession...come on. Other pres have done it....It amazes me how the democrats are still blaming bush
 11/13/2012 03:59:13 PM · #508
It amazes me how many republicans are in denial about the severity of the damage done during the Bush years.
 11/13/2012 04:00:50 PM · #509
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
there has been very little in the form of change......and recession...it is debateable if we are out of the recession yet or not.

You can thank the House of Representatives (and in your case, the governor) for lack of change. A $4T debt reduction deal blocked, the American Jobs Act blocked, and an emphatic "NO!" to anything. It is not debatable whether we are out of the recession. Recession is a very specific technical term, and it ended in June, 2009.

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Hostess is closing 3 bakeries....one reason is healthcare costs... I see a trend here.

Hostess closed 5 plants last month because they weren't profitable, but because one of the reasons for closing three more after their second labor strike in a decade is rising healthcare costs, Obamacare must be to blame.
Some preventive services for senior citizens that had previously been paid by the seniors themselves are now paid by Medicare, therefore it's Obamacare's fault that your brother's OB/GYN biz failed.
The national debt has risen over $6T in four years (the first, and biggest, year under the prior administration's budget), therefore Obamacare, with a total cost of $108 billion per year, is bankrupting the country.

I see a trend here, too.
 11/13/2012 04:14:39 PM · #510
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
something like Obamacare to be passed in a recession...come on.

Something like the Affordable Care Act, designed to allow more people to get heath insurance, to be passed when they're having the most difficulty obtaining health insurance... come on.
 11/13/2012 04:24:43 PM · #511
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
4 years is plenty of time to redirect...

Four years have not passed yet. Obama took office in 2009. His first budget was for fiscal 2010 and noted, "The U.S. budget situation has deteriorated significantly since 2001, when the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) forecast average annual surpluses of approximately $850 billion from 2009â2012. The average deficit forecast in each of those years is now approximately $1.215 trillion."
 11/13/2012 04:28:49 PM · #512
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
something like Obamacare to be passed in a recession...come on.

Something like the Affordable Care Act, designed to allow more people to get heath insurance, to be passed when they're having the most difficulty obtaining health insurance... come on.


My knowledge/experience with the whole Obamacare thing is that my husband now pays MORE for our insurance (like to the tune of a couple of hundred dollars more), our co-pays are MORE, our deductible is MORE, our out-of pocket is MORE, our prescription costs are MORE, and our coverage is LESS. Basically, my husband's employer couldn't make up the difference so our options were --

a) drop the company insurance and pay even MORE for private

OR

b) let the employer continue paying what they will and we make up the difference

In the end, my husband brings home less and we have less coverage. When Bernard asked the BCBS of NC rep "Why?" he was told that in order to cover the costs of all the others now required to buy insurance and meet all the new regs, the companies were able to (and "having" to) charge existing customers (those "grandfathered" in) MORE.

It's not HEALTH CARE that needs reform. It's insurance companies. (All insurance reps I've talked to have said that they support the new Obamacare "things" because in the end, it is just more money for them. I wish I could find the quote in one of the NC newspapers from a couple of years ago. It was basically a big dog for BCBS in NC talking about how great Obamacare was going to be for them, fiscally. Of course, it was relegated to a mere 2 or 3 inches several pages in so not many people seemed to notice it. Yea, purely anecdotal, but if the insurance companies are FOR it, shouldn't that be a red flag that it may not be "all that?")
 11/13/2012 04:37:44 PM · #513
but karmat Obama said that it would lower healthcare costs.....

Get rid of the law entirely and then start giving some real reform...Oh and by the way there are parts that I do agree with.

ETA: Karmat after re-reading my post it sounds vaguely like I am attacking you...That is not the case

Message edited by author 2012-11-13 16:39:11.
 11/13/2012 04:50:21 PM · #514
Originally posted by citymars:
It amazes me how many republicans are in denial about the severity of the damage done during the Bush years.


I find it hilarious how many democrats are in complete denial about how much worse Obama has made it. The economy is in the dumps, I got an idea, let's elect a tax and spend liberal. Good job America.
 11/13/2012 05:03:20 PM · #515
Originally posted by chazoe:
Originally posted by citymars:
It amazes me how many republicans are in denial about the severity of the damage done during the Bush years.


I find it hilarious how many democrats are in complete denial about how much worse Obama has made it. The economy is in the dumps, I got an idea, let's elect a tax and spend liberal. Good job America.


Its this type of logic and thinking that lost Romney the election.
 11/13/2012 05:04:21 PM · #516
Originally posted by karmat:
My knowledge/experience with the whole Obamacare thing is that my husband now pays MORE...

No doubt some people/areas will see more of a benefit or detriment than others, but when insurance companies are now required to spend 85% of premiums on claims and their profits and margins both go UP anyway, the culprit seems pretty obvious. And, no, insurance companies did not support the law. The ACA provisions focused more on cost savings (like exchanges) haven't taken effect yet, but the effects may be starting to appear already.
 11/13/2012 05:11:15 PM · #517
Originally posted by blindjustice:
Its this type of logic and thinking that lost Romney the election.

Logic need not apply.
 11/13/2012 05:16:40 PM · #518
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by blindjustice:
Its this type of logic and thinking that lost Romney the election.

Logic need not apply.
Yep

Oh but I forgot it's only Republicans who are stupid.
 11/13/2012 05:23:34 PM · #519
Originally posted by chazoe:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by blindjustice:
Its this type of logic and thinking that lost Romney the election.

Logic need not apply.
Yep

Oh but I forgot it's only Republicans who are stupid.


Judging by those statistics Obama won on the Food Stamp platform.
 11/13/2012 05:27:46 PM · #520
Originally posted by chazoe:
Oh but I forgot it's only Republicans who are stupid.

They don't have a total monopoly if Twitter jokes are your guide, just overwhelming market share. Yesterday Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal called on Republicans to âstop being the stupid party.â 'Nuff said.
 11/13/2012 05:28:40 PM · #521
Originally posted by kawesttex:
Judging by those statistics Obama won on the Food Stamp platform.

You must be holding it upside down.
 11/13/2012 06:51:07 PM · #522
Election by County vs. Foodstamps by County

Numbers lie and liars use numbers. If you take the broad state map your numbers look like they support you. Do some comparisons of the county maps. Concentrations are definitely in the Obama camp.

eta: I don't think I had it upside down!

Message edited by author 2012-11-13 18:52:07.
 11/13/2012 07:07:55 PM · #523
Originally posted by kawesttex:
If you take the broad state map your numbers look like they support you.

Your map shows the same thing.
 11/13/2012 07:22:25 PM · #524
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by kawesttex:
If you take the broad state map your numbers look like they support you.

Your map shows the same thing.


Same as what? That the percentages are higher in some of the red states? Think comparing some of the swing states and where those food stamps are and then look at the voting by county. I will stick by my 'Food Stamp' platform for Obama.
 11/14/2012 02:07:07 AM · #525
Originally posted by mike_311:


here's a good starting point, figure out why healthcare costs so much in the first place and fix that problem. making everyone have healthcare doesn't solve the bigger problem, it just rearranges who pays for it.


As a healthcare worker in billing, I'll tell you the cost is already rearranged. So far as I'm aware, the standard pricing model for care centers around the expected amount of money they will receive after all claims and bills have been submitted. What this means is that a facility must determine how many individuals they expect will not pay for any of their services. These costs are then borne by every other user of the facility, because that money just doesn't come out of nowhere, and it's a good bit more than you probably think. My facility doesn't work with a particularly indigent population, but the amount that we are unable to collect is higher than you might think. It is also very difficult if not impossible for us to collect from individuals from out of state, which is a good portion of our emergent transfers that are heli-lifted from the mountains (word to the wise- if you're not in good physical condition and live at sea level and are 70+, don't travel to 9,000 feet unless you're feeling like a helicopter ride). As you might guess, such care is very expensive.

Next, some insurance companies pay less, because they are able to leverage through in-network/out-network. In order to accommodate this leveraging, the price model is inflated and then decreased based on the leverage power and to encourage in/out network behavior. Our actual bill for one insurance will vary as a result. A made up number would be BCBS would get a 15% cut from total bill while Cigna would get a 20% cut. These aren't real numbers for those companies but they are indicative of the general percentage in our billing process.

This is done because a facility must determine its total operational costs, the cost of the equipment, and the number of each service that it believes it can reasonably perform. Physician fees are billed separately (by them), including anesthesia, and do not necessarily follow this approach. Once these total costs are assessed, then the cost of each individual service is determined in order to keep the facility running. I should note that this specific approach is what is implemented at the nonprofit provider I am employed at.

So what does this mean for those who are uninsured? If you're following what I've already said, it means the uninsured are given a bill for MORE than an insurance company is ever charged. It also very effectively assures heavy medical debt that most can't pay, which becomes insolvent and frequently wrecks credit and can cause bankruptcy. These individuals then have a further lowered buying power in the market as consumers. Which brings us full circle- it comes back to YOU, the insured person, because our facility isn't built on a money well. There's a reason we push VERY hard to get uninsured patients onto charity programs like Medicaid, CAP, and CICP (a state program), amongst others, and it's that the small end totals we get from these programs are much better than nothing. ETA: It should also be noted that preventative care is far cheaper in the long run than "fixing" a problem once it has occurred. This is important in determining overall costs because the uninsured and those with lesser policies are far less likely to partake in preventative care, so their bills are inherently higher due to the nature of the care they must eventually receive, which is also more difficult to pay since it is more of a lump sum than preventative care or a premium spread out over time.

There's a lot to be said here about the need for healthcare facilities to market themselves today with cutting edge and potentially unneeded diagnostics in order to attract patients, but that is an entirely separate and lengthy discussion (though it does heavily play into the idea of healthcare costs). Malpractice does too, but to a lesser extent than many want to argue (this varies by specialization, however).


Message edited by author 2012-11-14 08:13:22.
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