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11/13/2012 09:46:42 AM · #476

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Friday is national Papa Johns appreciation day...and actually not started by papa johns. For those that don't know....Obama care is about to start hurting buisnesses with more than 50 employees...This will discourage growth of small buisness and the slightly biggerones will cut employees hours. Hurting our fragile economy even more. I plan on going to papa johns friday, to support getting rid of Obamacare.

OK, explain to me how eating a pie stops "Obamacare"... The only real effect will be upon your waistline.

It is not the pizza. The point is supporting a buisness...any buisness....It could be autozone for all I care. Obamacare is going to create a situation (and it is already starting) of companies having to "trim the fat" either by downsizing (laying people off) or by cutting hours. Otherwise they have to raise prices to cover the added cost. At somepoint people will quit using those products or services because they are too expensive. Buisness has to profitable one way or another or they don't stay in buisness.

11/13/2012 10:06:11 AM · #477

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

Obamacare is going to create a situation (and it is already starting) of companies having to "trim the fat" either by downsizing (laying people off) or by cutting hours. Otherwise they have to raise prices to cover the added cost. At somepoint people will quit using those products or services because they are too expensive.

Your unbroken track record of wrongness continues.

11/13/2012 10:17:38 AM · #478

This is ine thing I dont need stats on...I have friends that are buisness owners that have already laid people off as a direct result of policies from this admin. One of those told me last week that he barely made it through the 1st 4 years and he prob won't make it through a second....oh and by the way he is a democrat that voted on Obama the 1st term and romney this last time

11/13/2012 10:52:44 AM · #479

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

This is ine thing I dont need stats on...

Sure, don't confuse you with facts... again. A cost increase of less than 1% (likely much less than the severe tomato shortages of 2004 and 2010) is not going to put Papa Johns out of business nearly as fast as infuriating their customer base. Negative publicity over a $5-8 million cost to insure their own employees' health has already knocked their market cap down $87 million since the election.

11/13/2012 11:30:50 AM · #480

1% is an increase to the cost to do buisness. The prob with that 1% increase. You start adding up all the regualtions and the cost associated with these regs it adds up. 1% here and 1% there. By themselves, I agree that they are small increases. The bottom line is, it ends up hurting the consumer and can hurt the employees. The purpose behid a buisness is to make money...some people can't seem to understand that. Now granted not all reg hurt every buisness in the same way...And some regs are good. But until we stop the over-regulation prices will continue to rise...people will continue to recieve less hours, or they will be laid off.

11/13/2012 11:48:32 AM · #481

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

The prob with that 1% increase. You start adding up all the regualtions and the cost associated with these regs it adds up. 1% here and 1% there.

Wrong again. According to Papa Johns, the grand total of all the regulations and the associated costs they're complaining about is less than 1%. Putting $5-8 million out of a $56 million net profit towards the well being of their employees is not going to put the company out of business. It good PR, good for morale and employee retention, good for a country that otherwise ends up covering those employees in ER rooms, and ultimately good for business.

Message edited by author 2012-11-13 11:57:22.

11/13/2012 12:04:58 PM · #482

for this time...

The prob with liberals is they don't open their eyes and look around for themselves. They base their views off of stats or polls...most of them have had the numbers skewed. Talk to buisness owners (like I have done) Find out 1st hand info from people. Also it is not just this admin...for years the regs have been pilling onto buisness.Granted some regs are good. Most just cost the buisness more so they either have to make cuts, charge more, or go out of buisness. When I owned my buisness...(yes I owned a comp buisness) having to wade through the red take was a nightmare. I was too small to hire a CPA...All of the regs that I had to deal with as a small company cost me tremendous time and money..I am all for de-regulation starting with Obamacare

Why can't liberals see that the point of buisness is to make money...(likr those occupy people)

Message edited by author 2012-11-13 12:06:27.

11/13/2012 12:20:00 PM · #483

here is an example.

when i was young i used to deliver newspapers.

the weekly cost was $2.15. most people gave me $3.00 total, and i got to keep the difference as a tip. one day the newspaper felt they needed to increase prices to keep up with the costs. the paper increased the cost of a Sunday paper $.25, so the weekly cost jumped to $2.40.

my customer continued to give me $3.00 so the newspaper didn't lose money, the consumer didn't lose money, i lost income.

quite a bit actually. I ended up quitting becuase it wasn't worth my time and effort for the paycheck. and went to work elsewhere.

the point is papa Johns or any business for that matter isn't going to lose money when, especially when they have shareholders to appease. they will raise rates or cuts costs somewhere else, and in some cases cuts jobs and force other employees to pick up the slack.

every rule and regulation you add, adds to the cost of doing business and we as a society need to decide if those regulations are worth the effects of those cost increases. in my case my heath insurance is high and it will be going up as my employer is passing those costs on to me. i understand that everyone should have healthcare, but asking me to continue to pay more and more so people who have less can have more, i'm really not ok with.

at least %15 of my yearly income goes to taxes directly (federal, sales, property, state, etc.). who knows how much else indirectly in costs passed onto me. that's enough, stop asking me to pay more.

here's a good starting point, figure out why healthcare costs so much in the first place and fix that problem. making everyone have healthcare doesn't solve the bigger problem, it just rearranges who pays for it.

Message edited by author 2012-11-13 12:22:11.

11/13/2012 12:23:49 PM · #484

Dude, you can't even SPELL business, and history has a rude slap in the face for your slippery slope argument. As noted yesterday on CNN, "In 1962, the government regulated the price and route of every airplane, every freight train, every truck and every merchant ship in the United States. The government regulated the price of natural gas. It regulated the interest on every checking account and the commission on every purchase or sale of stock. Owning a gold bar was a serious crime that could be prosecuted under the Trading with the Enemy Act. The top rate of income tax was 91%. It was illegal to own a telephone. Phones had to be rented from the giant government-regulated monopoly that controlled all telecommunications in the United States. All young men were subject to the military draft and could escape only if they entered a government-approved graduate course of study." Despite all THAT regulation business boomed, the economy boomed, we still had plenty of millionaires and nobody had to worry about federal debt. The point of business was still to make money, but not at the expense of those earning it for you.

11/13/2012 12:36:02 PM · #485

Originally posted by mike_311:

the point is papa Johns or any business for that matter isn't going to lose money when, especially when they have shareholders to appease. they will raise rates or cuts costs somewhere else, and in some cases cuts jobs and force other employees to pick up the slack.

Baloney. Do you think shareholders are appeased by losing $90 million over a refusal to spend $5-8 million on the well being of their employees? I remember restaurants charging 25Â¢ to add tomatoes to a sandwich or salad during a shortage. Nobody is going to swear off pizza if it costs 10Â¢ more to keep the cook healthy and out of a taxpayer funded emergency room.

Originally posted by mike_311:

making everyone have healthcare... just rearranges who pays for it.

Correct! It's called personal responsibility. Requiring everyone to have health coverage means the government doesn't have to pay for you to go to the ER so Papa John can have a bigger yacht.

Message edited by author 2012-11-13 12:36:22.

Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

11/13/2012 12:48:52 PM · #486

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by mike_311:
making everyone have healthcare... just rearranges who pays for it.

Correct! It's called personal responsibility. Requiring everyone to have health coverage means the government doesn't have to pay for you to go to the ER so Papa John can have a bigger yacht.

personal responsibility is a matter of opinion. i dont believe its my responsibility for you or anyone to have health care. now if the government wants to force the issue, so be it, i dont have to be happy about it.

you are assuming that these corporations are going to accept less money, they wont, they pass on the costs to the consumers. $.10 here and there adds up when everyone is doing it.

Message edited by author 2012-11-13 12:59:23.

Ann

Olympus OM-D E-M1

11/13/2012 01:16:00 PM · #487

Originally posted by mike_311:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by mike_311:
making everyone have healthcare... just rearranges who pays for it.

Correct! It's called personal responsibility. Requiring everyone to have health coverage means the government doesn't have to pay for you to go to the ER so Papa John can have a bigger yacht.

personal responsibility is a matter of opinion. i dont believe its my responsibility for you or anyone to have health care. now if the government wants to force the issue, so be it, i dont have to be happy about it.

Obamacare is basically a conservative program, requiring everyone to take personal responsibility and have insurance. Am I wrong in thinking you're saying that we should go back to the way it was before, where people who don't want to take that personal responsibility will just sponge off of the govt if they get sick?

I had 4 different friends, all under the age of 50 (one was a 30 year old guy), get cancer during the month of April of this year. Two of the four are still out of work, and all four had 6 or 7 figure medical bills (Obamacare paid for all of them), so you'll forgive me if the idea of going without insurance doesn't particularly strike me as responsible.

I agree that the employer mandate is wrong, but I suspect that my alternatives are different than yours.

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/13/2012 01:20:35 PM · #488

Originally posted by mike_311:

Lots of info here... //knowyourmeme.com

11/13/2012 01:45:03 PM · #489

Originally posted by Ann:

look i get it, it doesn't matter what my position is.

the question is why is healthcare so expensive??? there are a myriad of reasons, are we addressing that? if healthcare dropped significantly in price I don't think anyone would have a problem paying a little extra so that everyone could have coverage, but when many are struggling to pay for themselves, telling them to pay for others on top seems a wrong.

11/13/2012 02:00:03 PM · #490

My question is why do people hate success so much. There was a time where you could start from nothing and then advance in society... For instance Cornelius Vanderbilt started his empire with a $100 loan from his mother to buy a ferry. Granted times have changed and inflation has taken hold. But people in this country punnish success. The hard truth is a 3 party system is a must. Not everybody can be rich or even middle class. However, everyone should try to break into a higher class. Another example of rags to riches that is a little more recent is Ross Perot...or how about Bill Gates. Strive to be like those people.

11/13/2012 02:04:31 PM · #491

Originally posted by mike_311:

the question is why is healthcare so expensive???

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

The purpose behid a buisness is to make money...some people can't seem to understand that.

So much for that big scary government takeover.

11/13/2012 02:08:11 PM · #492

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

I dont think people hate success, i think that people think becuase you have so much you should be willing to take on more and give back becuase you can afford to.

they your are entitled to give back and they are entitled to receive from you.

i have no problem with government stepping in to force people to play nice with each other on this planet of ours, its for out own good and even if i disagree with it, but my whole thing is as i said earlier, this world is better when we all strive to be great.

Message edited by author 2012-11-13 14:09:12.

11/13/2012 02:13:10 PM · #493

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by mike_311:
the question is why is healthcare so expensive???

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
The purpose behid a buisness is to make money...some people can't seem to understand that.

So much for that big scary government takeover.

i wont believe it until see a decrease in my premiums, that said i hope it is true and if my stance is wrong so be it, I've never been afraid to be wrong.

11/13/2012 02:20:06 PM · #494

Obamacare is also putting docs out of buisness. My bro (OBGYN) has had to sell his practice to a big hospital because they could afford to hire the lawyers to fight the govmt run healthcare. My bro had to take a large paycut and his hours are much different. Shutting down the little guy.

11/13/2012 02:22:34 PM · #495

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

There was a time where you could start from nothing and then advance in society...

That time would be when wealth wasn't being "redistributed" to the wealthy, thereby allowing for a middle class with opportunities to advance rather than living paycheck to paycheck to cover tax breaks for the rich.

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

Granted times have changed and inflation has taken hold.

Indeed. When Ross Perot's company went public and made him rich in 1968, the top tax rate was 76% and inflation was at 4.7%. When Gates was first approached to make an operating system for IBM PCs in 1980, the top tax rate was 70% and inflation was at 13%. Now the top tax rate is 35% and inflation stands at 2.0%.

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

people in this country punnish success.

If record corporate profits, the rich getting richer and taxes a fraction of what they were in the boom years of the 1950s and 1960s is punishment, then sign me up.

Message edited by author 2012-11-13 14:34:19.

11/13/2012 02:32:24 PM · #496

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

My bro (OBGYN) has had to sell his practice to a big hospital because they could afford to hire the lawyers to fight the govmt run healthcare.

If your brother was hiring lawyers to fight government run healthcare when the ACA is nothing of the sort, it's no wonder his business struggled. Considering most of the ACA's provisions haven't even taken effect yet, it's unlikely there was a correlation.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

11/13/2012 02:41:01 PM · #497

He was fighting the changes in medicare that were immediate

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

11/13/2012 02:42:59 PM · #498

For a corporation able to afford to run (up to) half-million dollar ads* to tout their plan to give away two million free pizzas, you'd think that they could take an extra five million to cover all their employees health care out of petty cash.

You know, having employees out sick costs the company (and the employee) as well â�� possible as much as paying to keep them healthy in the first place.

Originally posted by Linked Article:

With â��Sunday Night Footballâ�� powering NBC to the top of the TV ratings, the primetime sports show has moved into the lead on another closely watched list: Advertising Ageâ��s annual ranking of primetime ad rates.Charging on average $545,142 for a 30-second spot, â��SNFâ�� unseatsâ��American Idolâ�� after the reality singing competition held thenumber-one spot for five years.

*Not counting what they had to pay in endorsement and production costs ... I'm pretty sure what they paid to their (multimillionaire) celebrity endorser would have covered a substantial portion of the (projected) "onerous" increase in health care costs ...

FWIW: I don't jet the whole Papa John's idea anyway â�� I thought it was pretty well established that to make really good pizza you need a (preferably wood-fired) overs at 600-800Â°F, not your typical home oven.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

11/13/2012 02:48:50 PM · #499

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

He was fighting the changes in medicare that were immediate

I'm pretty sure that's the responsibility of Congress, in a separate part of the law which is not part of the ACA.

In the past, Congress has chosen to enact yearly exceptions to the Medicare act, rather than to create a permanent fix. Of course, lately Congress (the House, anyway) has refused to act at all.

You know, even when they're not on their frequent month-long recesses, they (Members of Congress) only (typically) work three days a week anyway, since they have to use Mondays and Fridays as "travel days" so they can go home for weekend fundraisers and get a free lunch (tax-exempt "per diem") ... when you're looking for "waste, fraud and abuse" in government, maybe you should look higher up in the food chain than people on welfare. (PS: Members of Congress already get government-provided health care)

Message edited by author 2012-11-13 14:50:47.