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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> Color? Black and White?
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 11/12/2012 12:24:36 PM · #1
I've been working lately on improving my black and white, partly because I think it will improve my color work, and partly because, well, "real" photographers use black and white. I thought this article was interesting.

//lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/12/a-question-of-color-%E2%80%94-answered/

Discuss...

edit: fixed the link

Message edited by author 2012-11-12 12:42:22.
 11/12/2012 12:37:57 PM · #2
[url]//www.//lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/12/a-question-of-color-%E2%80%94-answered/ [/url]

Message edited by author 2012-11-12 12:38:40.
 11/12/2012 12:38:39 PM · #3
//lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/12/a-question-of-color-%E2%80%94-answered/

Message edited by GeneralE - Made link clickable.
 11/12/2012 12:38:53 PM · #4
huh, not working for me either...
 11/12/2012 12:41:28 PM · #5
Originally posted by mike_311:
huh, not working for me either...

There was an extra space character following the final forward slash, which made the URL invalid ΓΆ€” I just deleted that space character.

To address the issue ...

I'm somewhat disappointed in the photos chosen for comparison. I think in almost all cases, the color image has subtle but significant compositional differences which may have more of an effect that the presence or lack of color, and I'm not at all sure that the B&W images were as optimally-processed as they might have been so they'd pack a bit more punch. All of the scenes seem to have been shot in relatively flat lighting, which negates much of the impact of B&W.

I'd have been more impressed with his argument if he'd included images shot under a wider variety of conditions: night shots (noir vs neon), raking light, indoor, etc.

Message edited by author 2012-11-12 12:47:13.
 11/12/2012 12:43:12 PM · #6
when you remove information from a photo (like color) you bring to the forefront the other elements.

i dot get the debate, its a tool of the photographer what he wants his viewer to see.
 11/12/2012 12:47:07 PM · #7
Color photography is most potent when the color palette is reduced to 3 or less.
You'll notice in Joel's examples there are really only 3 colors at most in each photo, and those 3 colors are placed around in the frame just as you would with light/shadows in a black and white photo.

Message edited by author 2012-11-12 12:48:05.
 11/12/2012 01:08:52 PM · #8
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I'm somewhat disappointed in the photos chosen for comparison.


I agree, but this guy fully admits that he is and has always been a "color" photographer, so of course he's going to seek out scenes that work better in color, and his b&w processing isn't going to be all that strong. If B&W were his primary medium, I think his results would have been the opposite.

11/12/2012 01:50:46 PM · #9
Originally posted by Ann:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I'm somewhat disappointed in the photos chosen for comparison.


I agree, but this guy fully admits that he is and has always been a "color" photographer, so of course he's going to seek out scenes that work better in color, and his b&w processing isn't going to be all that strong. If B&W were his primary medium, I think his results would have been the opposite.

To me the real test would be to use the same photo, shot in color, and then optimally processed for both color and conversion to B&W, and then see which version "works" best. Obviously the answer will be "it depends" ΓΆ€” just like every other discussion of esthetic issues ...
 11/12/2012 02:28:43 PM · #10
Originally posted by GeneralE:
All of the scenes seem to have been shot in relatively flat lighting, which negates much of the impact of B&W.


But the flat light helps color photos, it helps extend the color palette by having less contrast creating a less noticeable difference between blue, green, and green blue for example.

I'm not sure what shooting the same photo would show (that his slight different perspective shots don't). Except what you implied that some images work better in color or in B&W.

I think that color photography is a different way of seeing a picture. It is really less about the light play in the photo and more about the color harmonies playing in the composition.

11/12/2012 02:35:47 PM · #11
Not much to add to all your comments. I have only looked at the examples, and none of them, except possibly the wedding photo, has a very strong composition, and there the BW is truly a pathetic rendering of contrast. It does make me think that black and white is basically an abstract medium. I mean that the colour photos depend on us recognizing the apparent real subjects for their meaning, and not some aspect of their appearance - except perhaps in the wedding photo.
 11/12/2012 02:52:09 PM · #12
For what it's worth, Joel Meyerowitz is one of the great photographers of the mid-20th century, and one of the pioneers of color-photography-as-art. So it's interesting to read his thoughts on the matter. When he was doing this work, color photography tended to be viewed by the "art crowd" as insignificant.

Message edited by author 2012-11-12 14:52:35.
 11/12/2012 02:56:19 PM · #13
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
For what it's worth, Joel Meyerowitz is one of the great photographers of the mid-20th century, and one of the pioneers of color-photography-as-art. So it's interesting to read his thoughts on the matter. When he was doing this work, color photography tended to be viewed by the "art crowd" as insignificant.

I'm not disagreeing with his thesis, but only thinking he could have used better examples to support his argument. Here are three "colorful" images I was able to quickly find and convert ...
I find this pretty effective in B&W ...
No significant improvement ...
Only makes sense in color ...

Message edited by author 2012-11-12 15:26:58.
 11/12/2012 02:58:15 PM · #14
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
For what it's worth, Joel Meyerowitz is one of the great photographers of the mid-20th century, and one of the pioneers of color-photography-as-art. So it's interesting to read his thoughts on the matter. When he was doing this work, color photography tended to be viewed by the "art crowd" as insignificant.


Yeah,I didn't want to be the one who mentioned who Joel Meyerowitz and his place among the photographer greats. ;)
Now we'll likely see a rash on how great the photos are...

11/12/2012 03:11:46 PM · #15
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
For what it's worth, Joel Meyerowitz is one of the great photographers of the mid-20th century, and one of the pioneers of color-photography-as-art. So it's interesting to read his thoughts on the matter. When he was doing this work, color photography tended to be viewed by the "art crowd" as insignificant.


I would argue that it's still that way in some circles. When I go to "serious" art shows, 90% of the photography is in black and white. Artists working in other media use loads of color to get their message across, but the photographers seem to be stuck back in Ansel/HCB land.
 11/12/2012 03:19:49 PM · #16
just a question of poor examples? or?
 11/12/2012 03:24:14 PM · #17
My cat is getting tired of this discussion...

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