Do challenge descriptions even matter?

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

10/31/2012 10:00:28 AM · #101

Originally posted by Venser:

Reflections challenge.

This finished 34th.

There isn't a reflection anywhere in this entry. It doesn't meet the challenge by any stretch of the imagination. I'm assuming the voters were either woefully ignorant as to the difference between refraction and reflection or simply didn't care.

I think you're being a bit of a smartass here. If you've got the vocab to know thats not a reflection, you probably know that a lot of people will ignore or mistake the fact. Why? it looks close enough to a reflection. At first glance, i didn't even think of that detail (did not even vote in this challenge btw). Other examples: Black on black challenges may have well-off entries that don't have perfect blacks (most screens don't really right?). White on white challenges may have entries that are not quite perfect white. Its the same deal, and purely out of respect for your intelligence, i would say you know all this, and enjoy the conversation.

Edit: i have to concede that you're making your point here. Challenge topics are often almost guidelines than hard set rules. The editing rules, however, are a different matter.

Message edited by author 2012-10-31 10:03:48.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

10/31/2012 10:04:12 AM · #102

To answer the original question, no.

You might get lots of oohs and ahhs or you might get lots of DNMC comments. Or both.

YMMV

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

10/31/2012 10:04:19 AM · #103

Originally posted by Devinder:

Originally posted by Venser:
Reflections challenge.

This finished 34th.

There isn't a reflection anywhere in this entry. It doesn't meet the challenge by any stretch of the imagination. I'm assuming the voters were either woefully ignorant as to the difference between refraction and reflection or simply didn't care.

I think you're being a bit of a smartass here. If you've got the vocab to know thats not a reflection, you probably know that a lot of people will ignore or mistake the fact. Why? it looks close enough to a reflection. At first glance, i didn't even think of that detail (did not even vote in this challenge btw). Other examples: Black on black challenges may have well-off entries that don't have perfect blacks (most screens don't really right?). White on white challenges may have entries that are not quite perfect white. Its the same deal, and purely out of respect for your intelligence, i would say you know all this, and enjoy the conversation.

Well... Of course he's being a smart-ass, that's one of his highly refined skills.

But that doesn't mean he's wrong, there is a sort of similarity between reflection and refraction, but it's more than the difference between black and almost-black. I would say a more appropriate analogy is ordering duck and getting chicken, sure they're very similar in appearance, but in reality they are quite different.

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

10/31/2012 10:06:41 AM · #104

Originally posted by Devinder:

I think you're being a bit of a smartass here. If you've got the vocab to know thats not a reflection, you probably know that a lot of people will ignore or mistake the fact.

I'm being a smartass by pointing out the fallacious nature of this photo and it's placement in a reflection challenge? That's the whole reason I started this thread, was that challenge descriptions don't matter in some instances, this being a prime example.

Originally posted by Devinder:

Why? it looks close enough to a reflection.

Only if you're an idiot or blind.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

10/31/2012 10:08:52 AM · #105

The simple truth is, a lot of people DON'T know that a refraction is not a reflection; I've met plenty of people who thought that a refraction was a special class of reflection. So it's not that odd...

10/31/2012 10:10:11 AM · #106

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

I guess my expectations are a little high considering it's a grade 9, maybe 10, science concept.

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

10/31/2012 10:15:47 AM · #107

Originally posted by Venser:

Originally posted by Devinder:
I think you're being a bit of a smartass here. If you've got the vocab to know thats not a reflection, you probably know that a lot of people will ignore or mistake the fact.
I'm being a smartass by pointing out the fallacious nature of this photo and it's placement in a reflection challenge? That's the whole reason I started this thread, was that challenge descriptions don't matter in some instances, this being a prime example.

Originally posted by Devinder:
Why? it looks close enough to a reflection.
Only if you're an idiot or blind.

You really don't have to be blind or an idiot. Not everyone has the same level of education, or same level of recall. A lot of folks don't assign remembering the difference between certain words as high priority so it gets lost in memory. Its a normal part of brain function, and you should probably learn to recognize that. Its your choice if you choose to ignore that information, but then you'd be falling into the same category you assigned the blind and the idiots.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

10/31/2012 10:16:11 AM · #108

This is hysterical, from "Ask Yahoo/India":

Originally posted by Ask Yahoo:

What is the main difference between reflection and refraction?
its important 2 me coz my vication abt 2 finish!

Sara K

(4 years ago Report Abuse)

VEER UNCLE
Best Answer - Chosen by Voters

Dear SARA K,

Apart understanding the valued defination for the meaning of the Word in concern, primarily at times we have to apprhend the grammatical construction of a Word in lieu to fromational syntax of a Sentence.

"Reflection" is a Word derivative by English from the original word -Flection- from lexicon of Latin. [please find for self]

"Refraction" is a Word derivative by English from the original word -Fraction- from lexicon of Latin {please find for self]

BOTH of these words are inter-related to the "Qualitative Product" of /for /by the "qualitativity of produciveness" of the Concerned Object that is hosting the receipts of the given output by/for/of LIGHT.

When the Light that offers its Qualitativity in terms of its inherent constructional-input as Rays as to be a host with the Object in Concern, then the qualitative reactional Output being witnessed and addressed by the Concerned Object is what we call it as "Reflection or Refraction"

For example the Light Rays being an input that are witnessed as a Host by a Shinning Materials and/or like Mirrors, the results what we observe to see is defined as REFLECTION

In similitude to said, the Light Rays being an input that are witnessed as a Host by any Material and/or like Glass that is see-through, the results what we observe to see is defined as REFRACTION.

In other words of Prudence.... in terms to language of common parlance...
Reflection... means a Primary or an Impulsive inter-actional quality
Refraction... means an Discerment or a Reducible as an inter'actional quality.

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

10/31/2012 10:20:32 AM · #109

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

... WTF???? ....

I read that a couple of times and still can't make heads or tails of what they're trying to communicate.

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

10/31/2012 10:24:06 AM · #110

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

This is hysterical, from "Ask Yahoo/India":

Originally posted by Ask Yahoo:
What is the main difference between reflection and refraction?
its important 2 me coz my vication abt 2 finish!

Sara K

(4 years ago Report Abuse)

VEER UNCLE
Best Answer - Chosen by Voters

Dear SARA K,

Apart understanding the valued defination for the meaning of the Word in concern, primarily at times we have to apprhend the grammatical construction of a Word in lieu to fromational syntax of a Sentence.

"Reflection" is a Word derivative by English from the original word -Flection- from lexicon of Latin. [please find for self]

"Refraction" is a Word derivative by English from the original word -Fraction- from lexicon of Latin {please find for self]

BOTH of these words are inter-related to the "Qualitative Product" of /for /by the "qualitativity of produciveness" of the Concerned Object that is hosting the receipts of the given output by/for/of LIGHT.

When the Light that offers its Qualitativity in terms of its inherent constructional-input as Rays as to be a host with the Object in Concern, then the qualitative reactional Output being witnessed and addressed by the Concerned Object is what we call it as "Reflection or Refraction"

For example the Light Rays being an input that are witnessed as a Host by a Shinning Materials and/or like Mirrors, the results what we observe to see is defined as REFLECTION

In similitude to said, the Light Rays being an input that are witnessed as a Host by any Material and/or like Glass that is see-through, the results what we observe to see is defined as REFRACTION.

In other words of Prudence.... in terms to language of common parlance...
Reflection... means a Primary or an Impulsive inter-actional quality
Refraction... means an Discerment or a Reducible as an inter'actional quality.

That's the definition I always use. :P

nam

Sony DSLR-A580

Sony DT 18-70mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical ED Zoom Lens for Sony Alpha

10/31/2012 10:24:49 AM · #111

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Obviously machine translated. And students wonder how language teachers know when they write their essays using them LOL

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

10/31/2012 10:29:26 AM · #112

Originally posted by Venser:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
The simple truth is, a lot of people DON'T know that a refraction is not a reflection; I've met plenty of people who thought that a refraction was a special class of reflection. So it's not that odd...
I guess my expectations are a little high considering it's a grade 9, maybe 10, science concept.

At least half of the (10) commenters knew the difference, so one could imply the same for all voters.
IMHO the same goes for a lot of challenge descriptions, half of the people just don't get the point...

[sarcasm_mode] Yes, of course, I know you guys and gals just sometimes have a different interpretation and "completely off-topic" is the same as "out-of-the-box" [/sarcasm_mode]

10/31/2012 10:37:25 AM · #113

Originally posted by h2:

Except the average vote of the voters of left comments is quite high. It's disheartening seeing a entry which doesn't meet the challenge by any stretch of the imagination finish ahead of 60 others which do. This is the reason I started the thread. Clearly the challenge description is irrelevant.

Unlike some other topics, the difference between refraction and reflection is not subjective, it's quite definitive. So those "out-of-the-box" people in relation to this entry have no leg to stand on.

dmsmith

Fujifilm FinePix X100S

10/31/2012 10:50:22 AM · #114

So why not treat the editing instructions with just as much disdain as the description? Not that it would make much difference to me, my post processing ability barely makes it above the basic level on a good day.

And for those arguing the importance of language... the idea that getting the meaning of a word wrong is ok simply because somebody couldn't be bothered educating themselves is completely ludicrous. And getting it wrong intentionally is an example of the utmost bigotry.

Message edited by author 2012-10-31 11:01:04.

jaysonmc

Nikon D200

Nikon MF 105mm f/2.5 AIS

10/31/2012 10:53:45 AM · #115

Luckily this isn't school.

If the Violin shot would have garnered a ribbon, great.
In the spirit of the challenge it fits.
Yes, there is disagreement.
Yes, this is really refraction.
But in the spirit of the challenge, it does fit.
Perhaps people missed their liberal arts classes and only studied science.

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

10/31/2012 10:57:22 AM · #116

Originally posted by jaysonmc:

In the spirit of the challenge it fits.
Yes, there is disagreement.
Yes, this is really refraction.
But in the spirit of the challenge, it does fit.
Perhaps people missed their liberal arts classes and only studied science.

How does it fit? Are you implying refraction and reflection are now the same?
There's isn't any way you can sit there and tell me it fits the challenge. It's a refraction FFS.

You even mention it's a refraction then go on to say it fits the challenge. Either you're confused or highly erratic while you type.

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

10/31/2012 11:02:10 AM · #117

Originally posted by dmsmith:

So why not treat the editing instructions with just as much disdain as the description? Not that it would make much difference to me, my post processing ability barely makes it above the basic level on a good day.

And for those arguing the importance of language... the idea that getting the meaning of a word wrong simply because somebody couldn't be bothered educating themselves is completely ludicrous. And getting it wrong intentionally is an example of the utmost bigotry.

Simple: Because you can be DQ'd for ignoring the editing instructions, you can't be DQ'd for DNMC.

And I agree with your second statement as well, ignorance is no excuse, and willful ignorance should be punishable by law. ;)

jaysonmc

Nikon D200

Nikon MF 105mm f/2.5 AIS

10/31/2012 11:04:03 AM · #118

No, refraction and reflection are not the same.
Fortunately not everyone takes the world so literally; there are places for abstract concepts.
And in that notion, the photo fits the "spirit" of the challenge.

Voters may disagree and they can hit the appropriate key.
Sometimes you have to push yourself, rather than being stuck on concrete concepts.

10/31/2012 11:14:15 AM · #119

Originally posted by jaysonmc:

WTF are you talking about? I'd hate to break this to you but reflection and refraction aren't abstract. They're quite concrete and real. For you to say it fits the "spirit" of the challenge implies your ignorance for the challenge description or your lack of understanding of the physical world. I'll mention again, this is why I started this thread.

If by push yourself you mean not follow the challenge description in the least, then yeah, I'm right there with you.

10/31/2012 11:19:44 AM · #120

Seems like you missed or ignored my comment (its your right ofcourse), so here's a double post to perhaps educate you out of your disheartened state.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why? it looks close enough to a reflection.
Only if you're an idiot or blind.

You really don't have to be blind or an idiot. Not everyone has the same level of education, or same level of recall. A lot of folks don't assign remembering the difference between certain words as high priority so it gets lost in memory. Its a normal part of brain function, and you should probably learn to recognize that. Its your choice if you choose to ignore that information, but then you'd be falling into the same category you assigned the blind and the idiots.

edit: i m going to step out of this now. I've made a clear case, and am just annoyed that the supposedly intelligent do little more than provoke like forum trolls abundant on different sites.

Message edited by author 2012-10-31 11:24:51.

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

10/31/2012 11:21:22 AM · #121

Originally posted by Devinder:

I didn't ignore it, it's just my response would have been flagged so I opted to take the higher road.

Denielle

Canon EOS-7D Mark II

10/31/2012 11:22:12 AM · #122

looks like another thread soon to be headed to "rant"