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 10/29/2012 10:35:26 AM · #26
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
Originally posted by Cory:
1. Your beliefs are silly


Forgive me for getting mad at this one.... You have no right to talk about someone's religion in that manner and I feel like THAT is harmful. Not the other way around...


Don't worry, I know you've been trained to have that response to anyone who questions anything about your faith.

See item #2 above.

And, yes, actually, my right to talk about your religion in that manner is spelled out in the constitution, plus I actually believe what I said.

I don't expect you to understand, but this is exactly what scares the shit out of me when it comes to Christians.

ETA: I'm honestly a little floored that you actually just said that you find my announcement that I find your beliefs "silly" to be more harmful than your religion's continued attempts to force people to live their lives by the standards your group has decided were good and right a few thousand years ago.

Message edited by author 2012-10-29 10:43:02.
 10/29/2012 10:37:49 AM · #27
Discrimination for sureâ¦nothing else. If you owned a restaurant and a black couple came in to eatâ¦and you said âOh, we donât serve your kindâ¦but there is a place down the street that willâ There is no difference! The photographer did the same thing in my opinion.
10/29/2012 10:42:40 AM · #28
Cory, I don't sit here and bash your lack of religion. In fact, I respect it as I should. In fact, I feel like you have every right to think my religion is "silly" but it doesn't mean you should vocalize yourself about it in a harmful way.

And you call Christians harmful? It hurts when people bash my religion, that's a fact.

10/29/2012 10:49:39 AM · #29
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
Originally posted by Cory:
1. Your beliefs are silly


Forgive me for getting mad at this one.... You have no right to talk about someone's religion in that manner and I feel like THAT is harmful. Not the other way around...


Don't worry, I know you've been trained to have that response to anyone who questions anything about your faith.

See item #2 above.

And, yes, actually, my right to talk about your religion in that manner is spelled out in the constitution, plus I actually believe what I said.

I don't expect you to understand, but this is exactly what scares the shit out of me when it comes to Christians.


A few weeks ago there was quote on Twitter from Ricky Gervais referencing the young girl who was shot in the head by the taliban for wanting to go to school...and the Baumgartner space jump:

"Dear Religion,

Today I safely dropped a man from the edge of space, and you shot a girl in the head for wanting to go to school.

Yours,

Science"

10/29/2012 10:50:07 AM · #30
this goes to show that the government dictates everything

I truly don't care if people are for or against gay marriage
I don't care if someone believes in the same things as I do or not.
this thread is just another case of brainwashing at its finest...

don't believe in this? you're persecuted ...
don't believe in that? again, you're persecuted

if someone didn't want to photograph me because I'm Italian... so what?
I could find someone else that would

if someone didn't want to serve me because I had 5 kids with me... big freaking deal, I can go somewhere else. been there. done that.

people ARE lawsuit-happy. point blank.

and the previous statement Cory made about learning to lie, or lie well... that's the truth. its the world we live in.

had the photographer said she was booked, this would have never happened. guess its a lesson learned. honesty is not always the best policy... definitely not when the governments involved.
10/29/2012 10:52:08 AM · #31
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
Cory, I don't sit here and bash your lack of religion. In fact, I respect it as I should. In fact, I feel like you have every right to think my religion is "silly" but it doesn't mean you should vocalize yourself about it in a harmful way.

And you call Christians harmful? It hurts when people bash my religion, that's a fact.


Ahh, perhaps YOU don't Marko, you're a really good guy. But you're in with a group, and as a part of that group you must accept responsibility for the actions of that group, since you are a member of that group by choice, not by nature. Therefore you are absolutely fair game my friend. (and I do mean that, you are a friend Marko, don't lose sight of that, I may despise the organization that you are a part of, but I do not despise you.)

I have been attacked and bullied by Christians many many times for my refusal to submit to the will of the church, I have been threatened with eternal suffering in a burning pit of sulfur, and I have been told that I make my family sad because they don't want to spend eternity without me, and that heaven won't be good for them unless I'm there too.

Yeah. Manipulation, scare tactics, and outright intimidation. I'd say that's quite a bit worse than calling Christians "silly"....

I don't mean to hurt you Marko, but I would love for you to see the reality of the organization that you have committed yourself to.

10/29/2012 10:54:13 AM · #32
Originally posted by Tommy_Mac:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
Originally posted by Cory:
1. Your beliefs are silly


Forgive me for getting mad at this one.... You have no right to talk about someone's religion in that manner and I feel like THAT is harmful. Not the other way around...


Don't worry, I know you've been trained to have that response to anyone who questions anything about your faith.

See item #2 above.

And, yes, actually, my right to talk about your religion in that manner is spelled out in the constitution, plus I actually believe what I said.

I don't expect you to understand, but this is exactly what scares the shit out of me when it comes to Christians.


A few weeks ago there was quote on Twitter from Ricky Gervais referencing the young girl who was shot in the head by the taliban for wanting to go to school...and the Baumgartner space jump:

"Dear Religion,

Today I safely dropped a man from the edge of space, and you shot a girl in the head for wanting to go to school.

Yours,

Science"


I found that quote from Gervais ridiculous and, for me, just shows what an idiot Gervais is (and i loved The Office). This blog post here summed up very well what i think about those 'Dear Religion' type tweets that are commonly popping up.
 10/29/2012 11:01:15 AM · #33
Originally posted by rooum:

I found that quote from Gervais ridiculous and, for me, just shows what an idiot Gervais is (and i loved The Office). This blog post here summed up very well what i think about those 'Dear Religion' type tweets that are commonly popping up.


Here's my favorite from that article, and I agree completely:

"But hereâs the shit of it: the real basis of most of the mass violence in human history is something even more ubiquitous than religion. It is political-categorical thinking: the subsuming of humans into groups, the stripping from these groups of their âhumanity,â the development of oppositional and âotheringâ rhetoric, etc. etc. "

As I demonstrated above in my response to Marko, it is important to separate the individual from the organization. Unfortunately, this is complicated and difficult when said individual makes every attempt to not be seen as separated from the organization, and takes every comment about said organization as a personal attack.

This is the difficulty when dealing with science and religion - as the scientists see our "belief" as just being a methodology for seeking truth and we don't really have any real personal connection to that process, while the religious see their faith as a very integrated and important part of themselves, essentially making the chore of extracting the individual from the organization a nearly impossible task.

As you can see in any religion vs science discussion, this is the biggest roadblock in having a productive conversation on the subject.

Message edited by author 2012-10-29 11:01:55.
 10/29/2012 11:01:24 AM · #34
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
Cory, I don't sit here and bash your lack of religion. In fact, I respect it as I should. In fact, I feel like you have every right to think my religion is "silly" but it doesn't mean you should vocalize yourself about it in a harmful way.

And you call Christians harmful? It hurts when people bash my religion, that's a fact.


Ahh, perhaps YOU don't Marko, you're a really good guy. But you're in with a group, and as a part of that group you must accept responsibility for the actions of that group, since you are a member of that group by choice, not by nature. Therefore you are absolutely fair game my friend. (and I do mean that, you are a friend Marko, don't lose sight of that, I may despise the organization that you are a part of, but I do not despise you.)

I have been attacked and bullied by Christians many many times for my refusal to submit to the will of the church, I have been threatened with eternal suffering in a burning pit of sulfur, and I have been told that I make my family sad because they don't want to spend eternity without me, and that heaven won't be good for them unless I'm there too.

Yeah. Manipulation, scare tactics, and outright intimidation. I'd say that's quite a bit worse than calling Christians "silly"....

I don't mean to hurt you Marko, but I would love for you to see the reality of the organization that you have committed yourself to.


The ignorance in this is in painting all believers with the same brush as the extremists. Talk about stereotyping and bias. Yikes.

You've put Marko in with the same people who would shoot doctors. It's the same mentality that equates every Muslim with the Taliban or Al Qaeda.

Message edited by author 2012-10-29 11:04:37.
 10/29/2012 11:01:46 AM · #35
Originally posted by Denielle:

had the photographer said she was booked, this would have never happened. guess its a lesson learned. honesty is not always the best policy... definitely not when the governments involved.


Denielle, I have to respectfully disagree. Imagine you are black, and you walk up to a food vendor, to be told "sorry, we are all out of food" even when you know that's not the case. Is that discrimination? Yes it is. Do we as a society accept that people can be treated that way? No, we don't.
This case is really no different. Now, the studio could have kept itself out of trouble by telling them "We really don't think we're the right studio for you; we will do the shoot if you want, but we do have some other studios that we would recommend." Then follow through, and if the customer is adamant that they want you, do your best work. That would have been the professional way to handle it.
 10/29/2012 11:08:08 AM · #36
Originally posted by rooum:
Originally posted by Tommy_Mac:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
Originally posted by Cory:
1. Your beliefs are silly


Forgive me for getting mad at this one.... You have no right to talk about someone's religion in that manner and I feel like THAT is harmful. Not the other way around...


Don't worry, I know you've been trained to have that response to anyone who questions anything about your faith.

See item #2 above.

And, yes, actually, my right to talk about your religion in that manner is spelled out in the constitution, plus I actually believe what I said.

I don't expect you to understand, but this is exactly what scares the shit out of me when it comes to Christians.


A few weeks ago there was quote on Twitter from Ricky Gervais referencing the young girl who was shot in the head by the taliban for wanting to go to school...and the Baumgartner space jump:

"Dear Religion,

Today I safely dropped a man from the edge of space, and you shot a girl in the head for wanting to go to school.

Yours,

Science"


I found that quote from Gervais ridiculous and, for me, just shows what an idiot Gervais is (and i loved The Office). This blog post here summed up very well what i think about those 'Dear Religion' type tweets that are commonly popping up.


Iâm sure he was just looking for the sensationalism when posting the comment, as that is pretty much his shtick. Iâm really not a fan of him myself, although I do love âAn Idiot Abroadâ but mostly for Karl..as I just love the way he thinks. But I get what Ricky was saying. Religion has killed more people than anything else through the years. The whole âMy god is better than your godâ is just kind of ridiculous. Might as well be saying âI like the sun better than the moonâ..
 10/29/2012 11:08:17 AM · #37
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by Denielle:

had the photographer said she was booked, this would have never happened. guess its a lesson learned. honesty is not always the best policy... definitely not when the governments involved.


Denielle, I have to respectfully disagree. Imagine you are black, and you walk up to a food vendor, to be told "sorry, we are all out of food" even when you know that's not the case. Is that discrimination? Yes it is. Do we as a society accept that people can be treated that way? No, we don't.
This case is really no different. Now, the studio could have kept itself out of trouble by telling them "We really don't think we're the right studio for you; we will do the shoot if you want, but we do have some other studios that we would recommend." Then follow through, and if the customer is adamant that they want you, do your best work. That would have been the professional way to handle it.


whatever approach they took, they would have been ridiculed. a double edged sword.
don't you think?
the fact that the photographer went out of their way to recommend others shows that she was being professional. IMO anyways
 10/29/2012 11:09:39 AM · #38
Originally posted by Tommy_Mac:
Originally posted by rooum:
Originally posted by Tommy_Mac:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
Originally posted by Cory:
1. Your beliefs are silly


Forgive me for getting mad at this one.... You have no right to talk about someone's religion in that manner and I feel like THAT is harmful. Not the other way around...


Don't worry, I know you've been trained to have that response to anyone who questions anything about your faith.

See item #2 above.

And, yes, actually, my right to talk about your religion in that manner is spelled out in the constitution, plus I actually believe what I said.

I don't expect you to understand, but this is exactly what scares the shit out of me when it comes to Christians.


A few weeks ago there was quote on Twitter from Ricky Gervais referencing the young girl who was shot in the head by the taliban for wanting to go to school...and the Baumgartner space jump:

"Dear Religion,

Today I safely dropped a man from the edge of space, and you shot a girl in the head for wanting to go to school.

Yours,

Science"


I found that quote from Gervais ridiculous and, for me, just shows what an idiot Gervais is (and i loved The Office). This blog post here summed up very well what i think about those 'Dear Religion' type tweets that are commonly popping up.


Iâm sure he was just looking for the sensationalism when posting the comment, as that is pretty much his shtick. Iâm really not a fan of him myself, although I do love âAn Idiot Abroadâ but mostly for Karl..as I just love the way he thinks. But I get what Ricky was saying. Religion has killed more people than anything else through the years. The whole âMy god is better than your godâ is just kind of ridiculous. Might as well be saying âI like the sun better than the moonâ..


but we all know the sun IS better than the moon.
ha

I'm kidding.
.......

the moon is better.
10/29/2012 11:10:09 AM · #39
Originally posted by Spork99:


The ignorance in this is in painting all believers with the same brush as the extremists. Talk about stereotyping and bias. Yikes.


Would you say the same of those who are moderate in their beliefs, but work with Al Qaeda?

What would you say of the Crip or Blood who isn't an enforcer?

I readily recognize that there is a great deal of variation in each individual - but once you join a group and proclaim your membership, then you are rightfully associated with all of the good and bad of that group.

If you think I'm wrong, just put on the wrong color shirt and go for a walk in the right neighborhood - you'll figure it out pretty quickly that no-one cares what your personal views are, and they won't take the time to figure out where you stand on the issues before they associate you with the group and make assumptions based upon that.

My advice is that if this bothers you, then you should probably consider acting as an individual instead of affiliating yourself with a organization or group.

This entire argument really is the ultimate example of "Have your cake and eat it too": Christians want all of the power and influence and special feelings that come with being a Christian, but as soon as someone points out the scary negative aspects of their affiliation they instantly want to be treated as individuals with no regard for their group affiliation.

Ludicrous I say, ludicrous. You will be judged by the company you keep.

Message edited by author 2012-10-29 11:12:05.
 10/29/2012 11:12:07 AM · #40
Originally posted by Denielle:
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by Denielle:

had the photographer said she was booked, this would have never happened. guess its a lesson learned. honesty is not always the best policy... definitely not when the governments involved.


Denielle, I have to respectfully disagree. Imagine you are black, and you walk up to a food vendor, to be told "sorry, we are all out of food" even when you know that's not the case. Is that discrimination? Yes it is. Do we as a society accept that people can be treated that way? No, we don't.
This case is really no different. Now, the studio could have kept itself out of trouble by telling them "We really don't think we're the right studio for you; we will do the shoot if you want, but we do have some other studios that we would recommend." Then follow through, and if the customer is adamant that they want you, do your best work. That would have been the professional way to handle it.


whatever approach they took, they would have been ridiculed. a double edged sword.
don't you think?
the fact that the photographer went out of their way to recommend others shows that she was being professional. IMO anyways


It was the fact the photographer agreed to shoot the wedding until the photog found out the couple was gay. It's no different than canceling because the couple was interracial or handicapped.
 10/29/2012 11:13:03 AM · #41
Originally posted by Denielle:
Originally posted by Tommy_Mac:
Originally posted by rooum:
Originally posted by Tommy_Mac:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
Originally posted by Cory:
1. Your beliefs are silly


Forgive me for getting mad at this one.... You have no right to talk about someone's religion in that manner and I feel like THAT is harmful. Not the other way around...


Don't worry, I know you've been trained to have that response to anyone who questions anything about your faith.

See item #2 above.

And, yes, actually, my right to talk about your religion in that manner is spelled out in the constitution, plus I actually believe what I said.

I don't expect you to understand, but this is exactly what scares the shit out of me when it comes to Christians.


A few weeks ago there was quote on Twitter from Ricky Gervais referencing the young girl who was shot in the head by the taliban for wanting to go to school...and the Baumgartner space jump:

"Dear Religion,

Today I safely dropped a man from the edge of space, and you shot a girl in the head for wanting to go to school.

Yours,

Science"


I found that quote from Gervais ridiculous and, for me, just shows what an idiot Gervais is (and i loved The Office). This blog post here summed up very well what i think about those 'Dear Religion' type tweets that are commonly popping up.


Iâm sure he was just looking for the sensationalism when posting the comment, as that is pretty much his shtick. Iâm really not a fan of him myself, although I do love âAn Idiot Abroadâ but mostly for Karl..as I just love the way he thinks. But I get what Ricky was saying. Religion has killed more people than anything else through the years. The whole âMy god is better than your godâ is just kind of ridiculous. Might as well be saying âI like the sun better than the moonâ..


but we all know the sun IS better than the moon.
ha

I'm kidding.
.......

the moon is better.


mmmmm...silvery moonlight...wait...warm sun!...I can't decide!
 10/29/2012 11:14:34 AM · #42
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by Spork99:


The ignorance in this is in painting all believers with the same brush as the extremists. Talk about stereotyping and bias. Yikes.


Would you say the same of those who are moderate in their beliefs, but work with Al Qaeda?

What would you say of the Crip or Blood who isn't an enforcer?

I readily recognize that there is a great deal of variation in each individual - but once you join a group and proclaim your membership, then you are rightfully associated with all of the good and bad of that group.

If you think I'm wrong, just put on the wrong color shirt and go for a walk in the right neighborhood - you'll figure it out pretty quickly that no-one cares what your personal views are, and they won't take the time to figure out where you stand on the issues before they associate you with the group and make assumptions based upon that.

My advice is that if this bothers you, then you should probably consider acting as an individual instead of affiliating yourself with a organization or group.

This entire argument really is the ultimate example of "Have your cake and eat it too": Christians want all of the power and influence and special feelings that come with being a Christian, but as soon as someone points out the scary negative aspects of their affiliation they instantly want to be treated as individuals with no regard for their group affiliation.

Ludicrous I say, ludicrous. You will be judged by the company you keep.


So, simply because other people hate you because they assume you're part of some group makes it OK for you to do the same?

Justify your bias and hatred how you want. That doesn't make it right.
 10/29/2012 11:18:41 AM · #43
and on that note... it looks like this thread is headed to rant.

10/29/2012 11:19:09 AM · #44
Originally posted by Spork99:
It's no different than canceling because the couple was interracial or handicapped.


Speaking of that, why do handicapped people get the best parking spots? It shouldn't matter what your ability is, we should all have equal access
 10/29/2012 11:25:50 AM · #45
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by Spork99:


The ignorance in this is in painting all believers with the same brush as the extremists. Talk about stereotyping and bias. Yikes.


Would you say the same of those who are moderate in their beliefs, but work with Al Qaeda?

What would you say of the Crip or Blood who isn't an enforcer?

I readily recognize that there is a great deal of variation in each individual - but once you join a group and proclaim your membership, then you are rightfully associated with all of the good and bad of that group.

If you think I'm wrong, just put on the wrong color shirt and go for a walk in the right neighborhood - you'll figure it out pretty quickly that no-one cares what your personal views are, and they won't take the time to figure out where you stand on the issues before they associate you with the group and make assumptions based upon that.

My advice is that if this bothers you, then you should probably consider acting as an individual instead of affiliating yourself with a organization or group.

This entire argument really is the ultimate example of "Have your cake and eat it too": Christians want all of the power and influence and special feelings that come with being a Christian, but as soon as someone points out the scary negative aspects of their affiliation they instantly want to be treated as individuals with no regard for their group affiliation.

Ludicrous I say, ludicrous. You will be judged by the company you keep.


So, simply because other people hate you because they assume you're part of some group makes it OK for you to do the same?

Justify your bias and hatred how you want. That doesn't make it right.


It'd be neat if you ever actually responded to what I post.

First, in response to your statement: "So, simply because other people hate you because they assume you're part of some group makes it OK for you to do the same?"
Not only is this OK, it's reckless to ignore them - you act as if by not responding they will go away and leave you in peace. Remember, evil wins when good men do nothing.

Do you even realize that you just said that you are against judging anyone based upon their membership in a group, and support of that group. Does that mean you honestly support Al Qaeda and are against judging any group in a negative way?

I think your stance of "Don't criticize anyone for what their group does" is possibly the most ignorant and dangerous thing I've ever heard anyone say.... Believe me, these groups of people are quite busy trying change the world, some for the betterment of the world, most for their own self interests.

Message edited by author 2012-10-29 11:30:45.
 10/29/2012 11:41:05 AM · #46
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by Spork99:


The ignorance in this is in painting all believers with the same brush as the extremists. Talk about stereotyping and bias. Yikes.


Would you say the same of those who are moderate in their beliefs, but work with Al Qaeda?

What would you say of the Crip or Blood who isn't an enforcer?

I readily recognize that there is a great deal of variation in each individual - but once you join a group and proclaim your membership, then you are rightfully associated with all of the good and bad of that group.

If you think I'm wrong, just put on the wrong color shirt and go for a walk in the right neighborhood - you'll figure it out pretty quickly that no-one cares what your personal views are, and they won't take the time to figure out where you stand on the issues before they associate you with the group and make assumptions based upon that.

My advice is that if this bothers you, then you should probably consider acting as an individual instead of affiliating yourself with a organization or group.

This entire argument really is the ultimate example of "Have your cake and eat it too": Christians want all of the power and influence and special feelings that come with being a Christian, but as soon as someone points out the scary negative aspects of their affiliation they instantly want to be treated as individuals with no regard for their group affiliation.

Ludicrous I say, ludicrous. You will be judged by the company you keep.


So, simply because other people hate you because they assume you're part of some group makes it OK for you to do the same?

Justify your bias and hatred how you want. That doesn't make it right.


It'd be neat if you ever actually responded to what I post.

First, in response to your statement: "So, simply because other people hate you because they assume you're part of some group makes it OK for you to do the same?"
Not only is this OK, it's reckless to ignore them - you act as if by not responding they will go away and leave you in peace. Remember, evil wins when good men do nothing.

Do you even realize that you just said that you are against judging anyone based upon their membership in a group, and support of that group. Does that mean you honestly support Al Qaeda and are against judging any group in a negative way?

I think your stance of "Don't criticize anyone for what their group does" is possibly the most ignorant and dangerous thing I've ever heard anyone say.... Believe me, these groups of people are quite busy trying change the world, some for the betterment of the world, most for their own self interests.


No, what you're doing is taking all Christians and lumping them together. You're placing people like Marko in with people like the Westboro Baptists, which is simply not right. Your ignorance of differences between different Christian groups isn't just ignorance because you seem to know that they exist, that makes it far worse.

Message edited by author 2012-10-29 11:43:52.
 10/29/2012 11:43:14 AM · #47
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by Spork99:
It's no different than canceling because the couple was interracial or handicapped.


Speaking of that, why do handicapped people get the best parking spots? It shouldn't matter what your ability is, we should all have equal access


You'd be surprised at how easy it is to make your own handicapped hangtag for the mirror.
 10/29/2012 11:48:23 AM · #48
Originally posted by Denielle:
if someone didn't want to photograph me because I'm Italian... so what?
I could find someone else that would


If the photographer doesn't want to photograph me I will sue him :D

... and then find someone else (or I'll simply try a self portrait) ;)

Message edited by author 2012-10-29 11:49:17.
 10/29/2012 11:49:01 AM · #49
Originally posted by Alexkc:
Originally posted by Denielle:
if someone didn't want to photograph me because I'm Italian... so what?
I could find someone else that would


If the photographer doesn't want to photograph me I will sue him :D

... and then find someone else (or I'll simply try a self portrait) ;)


HA!
 10/29/2012 12:16:23 PM · #50
Originally posted by Spork99:

No, what you're doing is taking all Christians and lumping them together. You're placing people like Marko in with people like the Westboro Baptists, which is simply not right. Your ignorance of differences between different Christian groups isn't just ignorance because you seem to know that they exist, that makes it far worse.


They do use the same book don't they? Same god? Same Jesus right?

The difference as I see it boils down to Marko quietly stating that he won't do anything to help someone because they are gay, while Westboro feels the need to print signs up and stand on a corner screaming about the same. Sure, Marko is simmering away on a nice steady 5 while Westboro has cranked it up to 11, but that doesn't mean that there is significant differences in the base ideology.

Frankly, I don't know that I can say I have more respect for Marko - at least Westboro isn't being deceitful about what they believe. Marko seems to be trying, very hard, to maintain political correctness, which is nothing more than re-branded self serving deception. Of course, again, this goes back to the honesty problem - we, as a society, view honesty as more evil than deception. How many churches a decade ago were 100% anti-gay? Today many of those same churches are preaching for acceptance - not because they really believe in it, but rather, because they fear the backlash that would result from honestly addressing their views.

...

Besides, to be fair, it's not just the Christian organizations that I take issue with. I'm actually lumping Marko in with every religious organization in the world.

I'd like to give you a great example of just one reason for my distaste of religious organizations, one that applies to every Christian (and other religious person) in the US.

The government discriminates against me, as a non-religious person, when compared to every other religious person in the country, it's systematic and very well executed. How? Taxes. As a religious person, you can give your friend (pastor) your money, which you can then, of course, claim as being exempt from government taxation - your pastor will then simply spend the money on your behalf, often on parties and other social functions, along with real property investments and vacation travel (missions)... All the while, I as a non-religious person, am unable to escape any tax burden whatsoever in this manner, since I don't have an organization set up to help me do this.

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of examples of this sort of thing, this is just one that is well documented and damned hard to argue that I'm making things up or imagining stuff. (not that I don't expect you to try).

..

And as I said, extracting the Christian from Christianity is darn difficult, nearly as difficult is extracting Christianity from the greater concept of Religion. So as long as I have a problem with the church, it seems to be that it will be my burden to have a problem with every Christian, as they are unable to distance themselves from that which they have invested their lives into. For what it's worth, at least on that point, I do have great sympathy.

Message edited by author 2012-10-29 12:18:59.
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