The wisest thing Ken Rockwell has ever written

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/18/2012 12:19:03 AM · #1

I'm not exactly a huge fan of the guy, nor do I really hate him either, I just find him to be targeted at a different consumer.

But he did recently post a rather good article on why photography isn't as respected as it should be.

Originally posted by Ken Rockwell, selections from article:

Herein is where photography gets the short straw, even by its own practitioners: the whole world thinks photography is easy simply because it's much easier to snap a picture than make a sculpture.

Yes, it is trivial to take a picture, but it isn't art, and isn't any good, until you have a vision first.

The way to create good photos is to have an idea, and think about what you're doing long before you snap the shutter.

What separates the good stuff from the bad stuff is how much thought went into the work before it's created.

Respect photography. It takes work to do well. It's not easy, and it doesn't matter what sort of camera you have.

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

10/18/2012 12:33:54 AM · #2

That man's a genius!

...no wait - he's a fool!

I'd agree with this "What separates the good stuff from the bad stuff is how much thought went into the work before it's created."
but I would argue that you can make art from photography after you snap the shutter as well.

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100

10/18/2012 12:43:12 AM · #3

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

That man's a genius!

...no wait - he's a fool!

Love it, in the first post even. ;)

spiritualspatula

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

10/18/2012 12:56:53 AM · #4

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

I'd agree with this "What separates the good stuff from the bad stuff is how much thought went into the work before it's created."
but I would argue that you can make art from photography after you snap the shutter as well.

Sure, and especially to the effect that editing, culling, is so CRUCIAL. Separating the seed from the chaff is perhaps more important now than ever, since we can shoot several thousand images a day if we so choose.

Personally, I think some of the disrespect for photography springs from the fact that most individuals own a camera and take pictures. Couple this with the gear obsession that permeates photography as a field due to its inherent technical aspects and the fact that when the average person sees a nice picture, they associate the quality of the photo with the equipment. It's complex equipment, and some shots do require certain cameras/lights. The same argument would be laughable to the average person if you applied it to poetry.

Photography, alone, has a deeply rooted association with the technology, and really always has. Perhaps it's because the images somewhat magically appear, as compared to the slow and palpable process through which a sonata is composed, a sculpture is formed, or a poem is crafted.

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/18/2012 01:06:38 AM · #5

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

Photography, alone, has a deeply rooted association with the technology, and really always has. Perhaps it's because the images somewhat magically appear, as compared to the slow and palpable process through which a sonata is composed, a sculpture is formed, or a poem is crafted.

A poem can be spewed out (not "crafted") just as images can be snapped.

Originally posted by Dada Poetry Generator using Spatula's quote above:

alone, the it's is a
really has. Perhaps the and process is
a and the appear, sculpture
Photography, alone, because images sonata sculpture formed,
association technology, and formed, is
alone, the technology, somewhat process which crafted.

;-)

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

10/18/2012 09:12:22 AM · #6

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
That man's a genius!

...no wait - he's a fool!

Love it, in the first post even. ;)

LOL, K.R. has gotten *more* than his fair share of attention due to that DPC thread! Still first hit.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

10/18/2012 09:22:06 AM · #7

Originally posted by Ken Rockwell, selections from article:

I dunno......maybe I'm not a good photographer because of this. I very rarely spend time thinking about what, when, where, and how I shoot. It just happens because of something I'm seeing, or doing, that strikes me in some manner that I find worthy of remembrance, or that I want to preserve to show someone.

Yeah, I go shooting for challenges with some sort of idea what I'd like to find, but that's about it......I find something, as opposed to composing it, setting it up, or visualizing my shot.

How does one create an early morning fog???? This was my drive to work this morning and it was just so gorgeous I had to stop and shoot it.

The spontaneity & discovery of random beauty is what photography is all about for me.

bohemka

Nikon D700

Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX Aspherical DG HSM for Nikon

10/18/2012 12:04:29 PM · #8

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Yeah, I go shooting for challenges with some sort of idea what I'd like to find, but that's about it......I find something, as opposed to composing it, setting it up, or visualizing my shot.

How does one create an early morning fog???? This was my drive to work this morning and it was just so gorgeous I had to stop and shoot it.

The spontaneity & discovery of random beauty is what photography is all about for me.

Holy smokes those are pretty shots. Pun partially intended. Would've been my October FS to be honest.

My wife sent me off on a day tour with a professional photographer recently, and he repeatedly said that most of his time was spent checking the weather, the sunrise and sunset, the tides, the state of foliage, etc., and then the rest was spent keeping rocks on the beach wet and stuff like that. The amount of work in clicking the shutter really was as easy as pushing a button.

[This, and your example, of course, are talking about landscapes, not other avenues of photography.]

Anyway... I reckon if we all had the time and were professional landscape photographers, we'd likely be able to have the same preparation procedures. But as you said, you found this particular scene on the way to work, and in the few brief moments we have each week, stumbling upon it like this is just the way it will always be.

That said, now you know where to find it and the conditions that created it, and that might be the beginning of more of a vision for this particular scene.

10/18/2012 12:13:01 PM · #9

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by Ken Rockwell, selections from article:

Herein is where photography gets the short straw, even by its own practitioners: the whole world thinks photography is easy simply because it's much easier to snap a picture than make a sculpture.

Yes, it is trivial to take a picture, but it isn't art, and isn't any good, until you have a vision first.

The way to create good photos is to have an idea, and think about what you're doing long before you snap the shutter.

What separates the good stuff from the bad stuff is how much thought went into the work before it's created.

Respect photography. It takes work to do well. It's not easy, and it doesn't matter what sort of camera you have.

I dunno......maybe I'm not a good photographer because of this. I very rarely spend time thinking about what, when, where, and how I shoot. It just happens because of something I'm seeing, or doing, that strikes me in some manner that I find worthy of remembrance, or that I want to preserve to show someone.

Yeah, I go shooting for challenges with some sort of idea what I'd like to find, but that's about it......I find something, as opposed to composing it, setting it up, or visualizing my shot.

How does one create an early morning fog???? This was my drive to work this morning and it was just so gorgeous I had to stop and shoot it.

The spontaneity & discovery of random beauty is what photography is all about for me.

I agree, but you did have to have a vision, as you took notice what what drew you in (the house), and focused on that, removing distractions and presenting a clean powerful image.

So luck does play in, but as they say, luck favors the well prepared.

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

10/18/2012 12:19:16 PM · #10

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by Ken Rockwell, selections from article:
Yes, it is trivial to take a picture, but it isn't art, and isn't any good, until you have a vision first.

The way to create good photos is to have an idea, and think about what you're doing long before you snap the shutter.

bleagh. how can he argue that photography is like art if he knows nothing about art? Did it not occur to him that a "vision" can be discovered *during* the artistic process and not before? If you have everything figured out before you press the shutter, or before you apply your brush to the canvas, then why bother? If you're not surprising yourself, how are you going to surprise your audience?

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

10/18/2012 01:33:11 PM · #11

Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by Ken Rockwell, selections from article:
Yes, it is trivial to take a picture, but it isn't art, and isn't any good, until you have a vision first.

The way to create good photos is to have an idea, and think about what you're doing long before you snap the shutter.

bleagh. how can he argue that photography is like art if he knows nothing about art? Did it not occur to him that a "vision" can be discovered *during* the artistic process and not before? If you have everything figured out before you press the shutter, or before you apply your brush to the canvas, then why bother? If you're not surprising yourself, how are you going to surprise your audience?

LOL, look, I said it was the wisest thing he has written... I never said it was right. ;)

In truth, you're quite right, but there are two style of photography for me - planned shooting, and serendipity. I usually get the best results from the planned shooting, but I always enjoy the more experiential process much more.

blindjustice

Canon EOS-7D

10/18/2012 02:07:44 PM · #12

This has been a fundamental site argument forever- spontaneity vs. set-up.

Some people's photos are so staged and filled with performance art, that it is no longer the quality of the shot that matters, but the elaborate set-up. it is basically pre-photoshopping I am not sure is that what photography is supposed to be?

-now granted, I admire their elaborate set-ups, but why is someone who takes a picture of their elaborate set-up, or "diorama" any better than me taking a picture of a sculpture or work of art that already exists? because they created it? there has to be a better argument than that,no?

tnun

Ricoh GR III

Pentax DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] WR DC

10/18/2012 03:58:48 PM · #13

I like to talk out of both sides of my mouth. It may not be art but I like it.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

10/18/2012 04:02:17 PM · #14

Originally posted by tnun:

I like to talk out of both sides of my mouth. It may not be art but I like it.

Too vague. Please restate yourself in a way that makes your intent clear, as I could interpret this several ways as currently written. So before I take you to task, I'd like to know that you're actually saying what I suspect you are.

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

10/18/2012 04:32:46 PM · #15

Originally posted by blindjustice:

My favorite photographer set up shots: Man Ray. The artistic process for photography involves setting up a shot, taking a photo and then editing a photo. I believe art and vision is possible in any or all of these stages.

I don't believe in purity of genres, so I'm not concerned about whether or not something can be called "photography".

blindjustice

Canon EOS-7D

10/18/2012 04:46:14 PM · #16

Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by blindjustice:
This has been a fundamental site argument forever- spontaneity vs. set-up.

Some people's photos are so staged and filled with performance art, that it is no longer the quality of the shot that matters, but the elaborate set-up. it is basically pre-photoshopping I am not sure is that what photography is supposed to be?

-now granted, I admire their elaborate set-ups, but why is someone who takes a picture of their elaborate set-up, or "diorama" any better than me taking a picture of a sculpture or work of art that already exists? because they created it? there has to be a better argument than that,no?

My favorite photographer set up shots: Man Ray. The artistic process for photography involves setting up a shot, taking a photo and then editing a photo. I believe art and vision is possible in any or all of these stages.

I don't believe in purity of genres, so I'm not concerned about whether or not something can be called "photography".

I am not trying to limit, hell I set up shots in piss-poor fashion all the time.
I was making an unsuccessful and tangential reference to DPC rules and entries, and photographic "purity" - eehich like any any artform, needs to be cast aside by the right individuals to grow/change/evolve.

tnun

Ricoh GR III

Pentax DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] WR DC

10/18/2012 05:33:38 PM · #17

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by tnun:
I like to talk out of both sides of my mouth. It may not be art but I like it.

Too vague. Please restate yourself in a way that makes your intent clear, as I could interpret this several ways as currently written. So before I take you to task, I'd like to know that you're actually saying what I suspect you are.

Not vague enough. I don't know, Cory, the devil made me do it.