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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> highlight help, please
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 09/18/2012 06:02:50 PM · #1
Ok -- it seems like I can bring out almost anything that exists in the shadows. Actually, it seems like I can bring out things that never even existed in the shadows!

But I don't know how to bring down the highlights. I have a photo in which my brights are way too bright. When I try to darken them, the just look grungy.

Any photoshop gurus on that know how to beautifully and wonderfully take down bright spots? :)
 09/18/2012 06:05:32 PM · #2
It is tough to say since different blow outs need different types of help. I often do a cut an paste layer over the top with low opacity to give the white a hint of texture, but that sort of fix many not be right for your image. Can you post an example?
 09/18/2012 06:08:09 PM · #3
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
It is tough to say since different blow outs need different types of help. I often do a cut an paste layer over the top with low opacity to give the white a hint of texture, but that sort of fix many not be right for your image. Can you post an example?


It's tonight's entry. :)
 09/18/2012 06:09:13 PM · #4
I have to say that when I had a 7D I found its highlight handling quite dreadful. I did find that having highlight tone priority helped a great deal. To such an extent that I kept that setting on all the time. Strange really because the same setting on the 5D was completely ruinous.

Do you shoot with HTP enabled? If not, give it s go.
 09/18/2012 06:11:15 PM · #5
Perhaps one of our resident PS wizards might do a tutorial on this very subject. It certainly is a tricky fix and all the methods I use are illegal in all but expert editing.
 09/18/2012 06:12:03 PM · #6
Originally posted by Paul:
I have to say that when I had a 7D I found its highlight handling quite dreadful. I did find that having highlight tone priority helped a great deal. To such an extent that I kept that setting on all the time. Strange really because the same setting on the 5D was completely ruinous.

Do you shoot with HTP enabled? If not, give it s go.


Actually, I was using my 40D -- I sent my 7D in for cleaning and to try to fix the noise issue. But I've never played with HTP -- I will definitely look into it when my camera comes back! Thanks for the tip. :)
 09/18/2012 06:13:49 PM · #7
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Perhaps one of our resident PS wizards might do a tutorial on this very subject. It certainly is a tricky fix and all the methods I use are illegal in all but expert editing.


That would be absolutely wonderful. I've run into this so many times, and I'm clueless how to deal with it. It almost seems like I want to burn with a color, or something. When I try curves or other methods of darkening, it turns the whites grey, and grey never seems to go. How do I burn it with a color other than black?
 09/18/2012 06:15:07 PM · #8
If reshooting is not an option, I would try to:
1) Open the raw file, and lower exposure. Look only at the highlights you want to kill, ignore the rest of the photo. If you can't recover these highlights, you're probably screwed (in advanced editing, at least).
2) Apply the dark version of the raw on the parts that are too bright. For that, you can use luminosity masks. Such masks are convenient to use, since they are "auto-feathering" and do not create halos.
 09/18/2012 06:16:43 PM · #9
Originally posted by gyaban:
If reshooting is not an option, I would try to:
1) Open the raw file, and lower exposure. Look only at the highlights you want to kill, ignore the rest of the photo. If you can't recover these highlights, you're probably screwed (in advanced editing, at least).
2) Apply the dark version of the raw on the parts that are too bright. For that, you can use luminosity masks. Such masks are convenient to use, since they are "auto-feathering" and do not create halos.


Forgot about luminosity masks! I'll try that.
09/18/2012 06:25:03 PM · #10
Originally posted by gyaban:
If reshooting is not an option, I would try to:
1) Open the raw file, and lower exposure. Look only at the highlights you want to kill, ignore the rest of the photo. If you can't recover these highlights, you're probably screwed (in advanced editing, at least).
2) Apply the dark version of the raw on the parts that are too bright. For that, you can use luminosity masks. Such masks are convenient to use, since they are "auto-feathering" and do not create halos.


Ok -- a luminosity mask solved the problem that I was having (well -- made it much better and I'll go play with it more...)

But!

I did it just on my entry -- it was too far past being able to bring the raw back in. (I always have problems after I've resized, cropped, and rotated the original -- I can't get the raw lined up again. That's a question for another time.)

What do you mean about using a luminosity mask on the darker RAW? Do the Alt Ctrl 2 and paint it in the mask?
 09/18/2012 06:32:57 PM · #11
Originally posted by vawendy:

What do you mean about using a luminosity mask on the darker RAW? Do the Alt Ctrl 2 and paint it in the mask?


Luminosity masks are handy to select some part of your image (such as dark areas, or bright ones), but it doesn't do more than that. When the area is selected, you still have to apply some kind of adjustment, and if the data is not there (in your case, because of clipped highlights), then toning the area down won't bring details. They are simply lost.

This is why I was suggesting to re-process another version of the RAW file: the data might be still there (contrarily to the version you have opened in Photoshop). If bringing exposure down in Lightroom or ACR (or whatever raw converter you use) shows the missing details, then you can import that as a new layer in PS and apply it accordingly using luminosity masks.
 09/18/2012 06:59:50 PM · #12
Wendy, also keep in mind that in LR/PS Adobe RAW you can sometimes recover highlights by bringing down the localized exposure in multiple passes. You would think that by turning the exposure and highlights down in a given area all the way any ability to recover detail will be apparent immediately. But sometimes if you make another pass or two doing the same with a new brush stroke in the same area they will show up. Also, if you get them back but the area looks to grey- try changing the white balance in that area to a warmer setting.
 09/18/2012 07:00:03 PM · #13
Originally posted by gyaban:
Originally posted by vawendy:

What do you mean about using a luminosity mask on the darker RAW? Do the Alt Ctrl 2 and paint it in the mask?


Luminosity masks are handy to select some part of your image (such as dark areas, or bright ones), but it doesn't do more than that. When the area is selected, you still have to apply some kind of adjustment, and if the data is not there (in your case, because of clipped highlights), then toning the area down won't bring details. They are simply lost.

This is why I was suggesting to re-process another version of the RAW file: the data might be still there (contrarily to the version you have opened in Photoshop). If bringing exposure down in Lightroom or ACR (or whatever raw converter you use) shows the missing details, then you can import that as a new layer in PS and apply it accordingly using luminosity masks.


The area wasn't completely blown -- just very bright. And in trying to darken it, I actually was darkening just the extreme parts. When I did the luminosity mask, it feathered it more, and solved a problem I didn't realize I had. So I actually was asking the wrong question, but you answered the right one. :)

But I've also had problems bringing multiple RAWs together to solve this type of problem, and I never thought of luminosity masks. That's awesome. :)
 09/18/2012 07:01:31 PM · #14
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Wendy, also keep in mind that in LR/PS Adobe RAW you can sometimes recover highlights by bringing down the localized exposure in multiple passes. You would think that by turning the exposure and highlights down in a given area all the way any ability to recover detail will be apparent immediately. But sometimes if you make another pass or two doing the same with a new brush stroke in the same area they will show up. Also, if you get them back but the area looks to grey- try changing the white balance in that area to a warmer setting.


Never think of white balance, because I never particularly use it. Another huge hole in my knowledge! I tried a warming filter, but white balance is a cool idea.

Great stuff, guys -- keep it coming! This is quite cool. :)
 09/18/2012 08:26:20 PM · #15
In addition to all that, there will often me more detail in ONE of the 3 channels than in the others: so you can paste that channel in as a new layer, mask out everything but the highlights with a luminosity mask, and adjust the opacity of the layer as needed. (That's the R,G,B channels)

Message edited by author 2012-09-18 20:26:44.
 09/18/2012 08:44:30 PM · #16
instead of using Photohop, use DPP or Adobe camera Raw or lightroom, it has much better highlight control than photoshop does. i was working on some vacation photos tonight, this one some guy took for me. i don't think i need to explain what went wrong.

untouched from raw:



reprocessed (took about 5 mins, using LR4):



Message edited by author 2012-09-18 20:58:11.
 09/19/2012 02:37:11 AM · #17
Originally posted by mike_311:
instead of using Photohop, use DPP or Adobe camera Raw or lightroom, it has much better highlight control than photoshop does.


DPP, ACR and LR don't have a "much better highlight control than Photoshop does", it's simply that they don't work with the same material:
- DPP, ACR and LR work with the RAW data (if you shoot RAW, of course), so they are able to fully reach all the data your camera captured
- Photoshop works with an already converted RAW file, i.e. an actual image

In the end you are right: it is critical to correctly process the RAW file to avoid unwanted blown areas before importing it into Photoshop for other tweaks.
 09/19/2012 05:53:18 AM · #18
Originally posted by gyaban:
Originally posted by mike_311:
instead of using Photohop, use DPP or Adobe camera Raw or lightroom, it has much better highlight control than photoshop does.


DPP, ACR and LR don't have a "much better highlight control than Photoshop does", it's simply that they don't work with the same material:
- DPP, ACR and LR work with the RAW data (if you shoot RAW, of course), so they are able to fully reach all the data your camera captured
- Photoshop works with an already converted RAW file, i.e. an actual image

In the end you are right: it is critical to correctly process the RAW file to avoid unwanted blown areas before importing it into Photoshop for other tweaks.


my choice of wording was inaccurate, thanks for clearing it up.
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