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08/30/2012 03:38:11 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
[quote=Flash] [quote=escapetooz] It's almost like you didn't read anything that I or Brennan said after that comment. Almost... huh? |
I read all of it. Multiple times. Even repeated your reasons in my post. |
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08/30/2012 03:39:19 PM · #77 |
10 cases of known voter fraud - or the ones that got caught. I don't get the impression we actively search this stuff out. Police aren't there doing it... what group is even tasked with this? The nice old lady that asks for your name when you go to vote?
But seriously, who doesn't need an ID? You need to have an ID to cash a check, collect Social Security, buy a house, collect food stamps, board a plane, buy a drink, drive a car, get a loan, serve in the military, use a debit card... Look, I can see both sides of it. Make it a state law. If you don't like it, move to some place more accepting of your laziness. That's what's great about living in a federation.
And, just to stir the pot, are the results of the Florida new registration numbers an indictment of how lazy the Florida democratic voter base is? |
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08/30/2012 03:44:19 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
10 cases of known voter fraud - or the ones that got caught. I don't get the impression we actively search this stuff out. Police aren't there doing it... what group is even tasked with this? The nice old lady that asks for your name when you go to vote?
But seriously, who doesn't need an ID? You need to have an ID to cash a check, collect Social Security, buy a house, collect food stamps, board a plane, buy a drink, drive a car, get a loan, serve in the military, use a debit card... Look, I can see both sides of it. Make it a state law. If you don't like it, move to some place more accepting of your laziness. That's what's great about living in a federation.
And, just to stir the pot, are the results of the Florida new registration numbers an indictment of how lazy the Florida democratic voter base is? |
They magically became lazy just this year? Yes, let's make laws to specifically disenfranchise people by design, THEN call them lazy. It's the perfect crime.
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08/30/2012 03:49:28 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
use a debit card... |
Where do you shop?
Under most agreements (Mastercard, Visa, Discover), no store has the right to ask for ID when purchasing using either a debit or credit card if the back of the card is signed. When I travel through Michigan, I fight them all the time on this and report them if they don't want to complete the transaction.
Message edited by author 2012-08-30 15:49:54. |
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08/30/2012 03:52:33 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by Flash:
And showing that you are who you say you are is a problem why? The young don't have identification? Minorities don't have identification? The old don't have identification? Who are these people who don't have identification? No social security card? No drivers license? No credit/debit card? No passport? Maybe one of two of these but NONE? Absolutely no identification to show you are who you say your are? No bank book? How do you cash a check? How do you bank? How do you buy something? How do you get something notorized like retirement papers. |
In Tennessee valid ID to vote is limited to:
TN driver̢۪s license
Valid photo ID card issued by any state
Valid photo ID license issued by TN Dept. of Safety
Valid U.S. passport
Valid U.S. military ID with photo
70% of Americans do not hold a passport. Getting a driver's licence used to be a right of passage at 16; today that is not the case."From 1983 to 2008, the share of 16- to 39-year-olds with driver's licenses declined markedly, with the greatest decreases among drivers in their late teens and early 20s, according to a study at the University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute in Ann Arbor. About 69 percent of 17-year-olds had a driver's license in 1983. By 2008, that had dropped to 50 percent. Among Americans ages 20 to 24 in 1983, nearly 92 percent had driver's licenses. Twenty-five years later, it was 82 percent." My daughter is 18, and in her group of friends (affluent suburban kids with passports) about 30% do not drive and have no licence. They have credit cards, university student IDs, ATM cards, everything they need to function in our society, but not to vote in some states.
Some 29 percent of poll respondents reported that they do not have a credit card. That was a more than 10 percent jump from the number of respondents who reported having no credit cards in June 2009. (Source: Scientific poll for CreditCards.com, conducted Feb. 5-7, 2010)
You ought not have to have money to vote, you ought not to have to operate a vehicle to vote, you ought not have to be in the military to vote, you ought not have to have the desire to travel overseas to vote. There is no voter fraud to fight, this is clearly an attempt to disenfranchise the marginal members of our society. We might as well bring back the poll tax, or only allow white male property owners to vote, after all that was the intent of the framers of the consitution.
Message edited by author 2012-08-30 16:05:53. |
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08/30/2012 04:07:32 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
use a debit card... |
Where do you shop?
Under most agreements (Mastercard, Visa, Discover), no store has the right to ask for ID when purchasing using either a debit or credit card if the back of the card is signed. When I travel through Michigan, I fight them all the time on this and report them if they don't want to complete the transaction. |
Man. I bet you make a lot of friends with the person behind you in line... :P |
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08/30/2012 04:13:02 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Man. I bet you make a lot of friends with the person behind you in line... :P |
You make it sound like requiring companies to obey the law is a bad thing ... |
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08/30/2012 04:25:15 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
use a debit card... |
Where do you shop?
Under most agreements (Mastercard, Visa, Discover), no store has the right to ask for ID when purchasing using either a debit or credit card if the back of the card is signed. When I travel through Michigan, I fight them all the time on this and report them if they don't want to complete the transaction. |
Personally, I don't mind them checking, and I'm not sure why anyone would. It helps to prevent someone from picking your pocket and using your card. It's a fairly normal thing around here, although you are correct it seems, it's not required. |
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08/30/2012 04:47:56 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
use a debit card... |
Where do you shop?
Under most agreements (Mastercard, Visa, Discover), no store has the right to ask for ID when purchasing using either a debit or credit card if the back of the card is signed. When I travel through Michigan, I fight them all the time on this and report them if they don't want to complete the transaction. |
Personally, I don't mind them checking, and I'm not sure why anyone would. It helps to prevent someone from picking your pocket and using your card. It's a fairly normal thing around here, although you are correct it seems, it's not required. |
And personally a lot of people don't mind the Patriot Act because they know they aren't terrorists. Same thing with improper searches and seizures. Cops CANNOT come into your house or your car without a warrant but the do all the time because of flimsy "probable cause" and the mindset is "if you have nothing to hide, you'd let them in." No. I wouldn't let them in on principle. Because that's my right. Constitutional laws, voting right laws, etc. are in place to protect citizens from abuse. It doesn't matter if you think it will never effect you, or if you don't "mind". It's illegal or at the very least wrong.
This voter ID law fiasco is undemocratic and wrong. Doesn't matter if YOU have an ID so you don't care. Not saying you necessarily took that particular stance but a lot of people have.
Edit: "Probably cause" sounds more fun but alas it was just a typo.
Message edited by author 2012-08-30 17:07:03.
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08/30/2012 05:04:11 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
Personally, I don't mind them checking, and I'm not sure why anyone would. |
It's amazing to me how many people who hold the Second Amendment to be a sacred text seem to have little regard for the Fourth or Fifth ... |
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08/30/2012 05:07:59 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
Personally, I don't mind them checking, and I'm not sure why anyone would. |
It's amazing to me how many people who hold the Second Amendment to be a sacred text seem to have little regard for the Fourth or Fifth ... |
But, but, ....., what do you have to hide? |
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08/30/2012 05:14:18 PM · #87 |
Not sure how the 5th has anything to do with what I said.
As for the 4th and how it relates to using a credit card in a grocery store... I understand the parallel you're trying to make, but I'm not sure it can be made. The 4th protects against search and seizure by the government. And I'll argue that confirming your identification is neither a search nor a seizure. For instance, when you're pulled over for speeding you are required to present your ID, yet they cannot search any locked compartments. |
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08/30/2012 05:15:20 PM · #88 |
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
Personally, I don't mind them checking, and I'm not sure why anyone would. |
It's amazing to me how many people who hold the Second Amendment to be a sacred text seem to have little regard for the Fourth or Fifth ... |
But, but, ....., what do you have to hide? |
Forget the constitution! Let's go back to Trial by Ordeal. I was just reading about the Ordeal Bean in my Wicked Plants book and I've been itchin to try it out. ;P
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08/30/2012 05:17:20 PM · #89 |
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
Not sure how the 5th has anything to do with what I said.
As for the 4th and how it relates to using a credit card in a grocery store... I understand the parallel you're trying to make, but I'm not sure it can be made. The 4th protects against search and seizure by the government. And I'll argue that confirming your identification is neither a search nor a seizure. For instance, when you're pulled over for speeding you are required to present your ID, yet they cannot search any locked compartments. |
They "can't" but they do. My friend's truck just got searched when he wasn't even in it. The guy that was fixing it had taken it for a test run and got pulled over, I don't recall why. But the cop searched it even though the mechanic protested that it wasn't even his truck. Happens all the time.
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08/30/2012 05:17:57 PM · #90 |
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
Personally, I don't mind them checking, and I'm not sure why anyone would. |
It's amazing to me how many people who hold the Second Amendment to be a sacred text seem to have little regard for the Fourth or Fifth ... |
But, but, ....., what do you have to hide? |
Why should it matter?
Amazing how "conservatives" are for no goverment interference with individual liberty except when it comes to a woman's uterus or what people choose to smoke ... |
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08/30/2012 05:18:03 PM · #91 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
And personally a lot of people don't mind the Patriot Act because they know they aren't terrorists. Same thing with improper searches and seizures. Cops CANNOT come into your house or your car without a warrant but the do all the time because of flimsy "probable cause" and the mindset is "if you have nothing to hide, you'd let them in." No. I wouldn't let them in on principle. Because that's my right. Constitutional laws, voting right laws, etc. are in place to protect citizens from abuse. It doesn't matter if you think it will never effect you, or if you don't "mind". It's illegal or at the very least wrong. |
Totally agree, I wouldn't let them in either. We need to protect our Constitution - seems that's one thing we can rally behind. |
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08/30/2012 05:18:34 PM · #92 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Man. I bet you make a lot of friends with the person behind you in line... :P |
You make it sound like requiring companies to obey the law is a bad thing ... |
It is when I'm in a rush and you are just being an ass... ;) |
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08/30/2012 05:20:45 PM · #93 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
I was just reading about the Ordeal Bean in my Wicked Plants book ... |
???  |
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08/30/2012 05:21:54 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
Personally, I don't mind them checking, and I'm not sure why anyone would. |
It's amazing to me how many people who hold the Second Amendment to be a sacred text seem to have little regard for the Fourth or Fifth ... |
But, but, ....., what do you have to hide? |
Why should it matter?
Amazing how "conservatives" are for no goverment interference with individual liberty except when it comes to a woman's uterus or what people choose to smoke ... |
I thought he was being sarcastic... I hope?
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08/30/2012 05:23:59 PM · #95 |
| I must've missed the sarcasm tags ... |
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08/30/2012 05:26:29 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I must've missed the sarcasm tags ... |
They weren't there, but yeah, that was what I was implying. Nothing to hide, nothing to fear. God bless you Patriot Act. |
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08/30/2012 05:27:03 PM · #97 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
I was just reading about the Ordeal Bean in my Wicked Plants book ... |
??? |
The Ordeal Bean (Calabar Bean) is a highly poisonous bean that used to be used in trials to determine innocence. It actually kind of worked in an ironic way because "A person who knew they were innocent might chew the bean quickly and swallow it with pride, ingesting a quick dose that would cause them to vomit before the bean could to more damage. A guilty party, dreading death, might take tiny, slow bites. Ironically this attempt to prolong their own life would only hasten their death by delivering a gradual well-digested dose of poison."
Sucks for you if you're innocent and still scared...
Also Wicked Plants book. Pretty fun read. Plants are amazing.
Message edited by author 2012-08-30 17:29:39.
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08/30/2012 05:33:49 PM · #98 |
Back to the election. They both are terrible options (and Paul too if he's still running). I don't want ANY of them running the country because they are all looking out for banks and corporations, not the general public. That being said, I'll vote Obama just cus I like my uterus and support gay rights. But sadly digging deeper than social issues I don't see much difference.
Let's build a barge and live on international waters. Who's with me? ;)
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08/30/2012 05:34:20 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I must've missed the sarcasm tags ... |
They weren't there, but yeah, that was what I was implying. Nothing to hide, nothing to fear. God bless you Patriot Act. |
Amazing how the sarcastic answer gets the attention. |
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08/30/2012 05:37:20 PM · #100 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Back to the election. They both are terrible options (and Paul too if he's still running). I don't want ANY of them running the country because they are all looking out for banks and corporations, not the general public. That being said, I'll vote Obama just cus I like my uterus and support gay rights. But sadly digging deeper than social issues I don't see much difference. |
The federal government doesn't have constitutional authority to deal with either, so why base your vote on those things?
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Let's build a barge and live on international waters. Who's with me? ;) |
You're looking for the Principality of Sealand. |
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