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08/06/2012 03:05:56 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by jagar:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by jagar:
I have to agree with  cutout here, a totally futile exercise in the scheme of things but one that represents well man's need to find happiness anywhere but right here, right now. |
I couldn't disagree more. It's in the nature of mankind, in our very genes, to need far horizons, unconquered frontiers. Without them we wither, become less than we might be. |
Would we become less for not exploring mars ? Would be become more for exploring more our own planet and it's inequalities and the damage we are doing to it ? Would we become more by exploring our own mind and reasons behind its incessant desires ? of course exploration is a necessity to bettering ourselves, it's just the direction that matters. |
Yes.
Why can we not do both? Were it not for NASA, the tools we have for observing our own planet would be greatly diminished. Many point to the photgraph of the Earth from space made during Apollo 8 as central to changing the concept of Earth from simply encompassing what we see when looking from horizon to horizon to a view of the Earth as a big blue marble flying through the void.
We do that too.
Exploration goes in many directions
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08/06/2012 03:07:21 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by jagar:
Not to be the kill joy but:
If we were to collectively put this much effort and money into more essential matters maybe we may never need another planet to escape to. |
So instead of bemoaning NASA their paltry 1% of the Federal budget, why not demand that the government spend the other 99% of your tax dollars as effectively ... remember that NASA and the space program provided the stimulus for the miniaturization of electronics (as in your computer, your camera, your CD/MP3 player, LCD monitors, etc.), not to mention other andvances in various technologies (fabrics, metallurgy, robotics, ...). They also fly the satellites which track the weather, volcanic erputions, fires, solar flares/CMEs ... oh yeah, and the Hubble space telescope ... |
Do Frenchman contribute taxes to NASA's budget? |
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08/06/2012 03:29:43 PM · #28 |
Amazing how even an achievement such as this can create strife.
But I guess that, too, is human nature. Yet we wonder why peace is so difficult. |
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08/06/2012 03:36:12 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
Amazing how even an achievement such as this can create strife.
But I guess that, too, is human nature. Yet we wonder why peace is so difficult. |
Just what I was thinking. Here's a great triumph of human ingenuity being celebrated, but that's apparently just not possible here in DPC, or probably anywhere for that matter. Whatever we choose to celebrate, there's always others denigrating. It seems a bit more strident these past few years, to me, but it's been that way for a long time. I'm referring to the world, btw, not just DPC. The "days of innocence" when everybody might band together to celebrate an accomplishment seem far behind us now, if they ever truly existed. |
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08/06/2012 03:55:40 PM · #30 |
I take umbrage at folks ho had no stake in this spectacular endeavor trying to tear it down. What particularly grates on me is the bad attitude of some folks from the EU, who are supposedly our "friends." It seems that whatever the US does (or even doesn't do) it is, by definition, wrong. We are truly damned if we do, and damned if we don't.
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08/06/2012 04:23:36 PM · #31 |
| My reaction was just an open one, I was just thinking out loud wether or not humans are striving in the right direction, looking at the state of the planet and all the human suffering that is evident in every corner of it, it would be foolish of me not to pose such questions and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. My rant certainly didn't have anything whatsoever to do with America, in fact I believe a couple of the tools on board will be controlled from the European space center here in Toulouse and its been headline news all day here. I'm very sorry if I have offended anybody, I should have known that people get incredibly defensive and blind to opposing opinions when national pride plays a role, it was ignorant on my behalf to believe otherwise. |
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08/06/2012 04:31:24 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by jagar:
I should have known that people get incredibly defensive and blind to opposing opinions when national pride plays a role, it was ignorant on my behalf to believe otherwise. |
My reaction has nothing to do with national pride.
My pride, such as it is, is reserved for the human SPECIES, that we can look up at the stars, yearn for them, reach towards them, take huge steps towards them, always looking outward, always dreaming; this, to me, is what it means to be human, in a particular way.
I understand where you are coming from, that we have myriad problems here on earth that need solving, but to say that we on earth should no longer look to the stars because some of our fellow-humans are living in misery, or because the planet is suffering, or whatever, seems to me a misunderstanding of the human condition.
As has been pointed out earlier, it's not as if the resources directed towards the space effort have not led to huge advances in things we use here on earth, and it's not as if those same resources represent a significant percentage of the total resources available to our nation (speaking for Americans) or to the species (speaking for all peoples).
R. |
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08/06/2012 04:34:41 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by jagar:
I should have known that people get incredibly defensive and blind to opposing opinions when national pride plays a role, it was ignorant on my behalf to believe otherwise. |
My reaction has nothing to do with national pride.
My pride, such as it is, is reserved for the human SPECIES, that we can look up at the stars, yearn for them, reach towards them, take huge steps towards them, always looking outward, always dreaming; this, to me, is what it means to be human, in a particular way.
I understand where you are coming from, that we have myriad problems here on earth that need solving, but to say that we on earth should no longer look to the stars because some of our fellow-humans are living in misery, or because the planet is suffering, or whatever, seems to me a misunderstanding of the human condition.
As has been pointed out earlier, it's not as if the resources directed towards the space effort have not led to huge advances in things we use here on earth, and it's not as if those same resources represent a significant percentage of the total resources available to our nation (speaking for Americans) or to the species (speaking for all peoples).
R. |
Is not looking to the stars when all around is in strife, not the cause of such strife? metaphorically speaking of course. |
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08/06/2012 04:37:52 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by jagar:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by jagar:
I should have known that people get incredibly defensive and blind to opposing opinions when national pride plays a role, it was ignorant on my behalf to believe otherwise. |
My reaction has nothing to do with national pride.
My pride, such as it is, is reserved for the human SPECIES, that we can look up at the stars, yearn for them, reach towards them, take huge steps towards them, always looking outward, always dreaming; this, to me, is what it means to be human, in a particular way.
I understand where you are coming from, that we have myriad problems here on earth that need solving, but to say that we on earth should no longer look to the stars because some of our fellow-humans are living in misery, or because the planet is suffering, or whatever, seems to me a misunderstanding of the human condition.
As has been pointed out earlier, it's not as if the resources directed towards the space effort have not led to huge advances in things we use here on earth, and it's not as if those same resources represent a significant percentage of the total resources available to our nation (speaking for Americans) or to the species (speaking for all peoples).
R. |
Is not looking to the stars when all around is in strife, not the cause of such strife? metaphorically speaking of course. |
In a word, no.
If anything, it's by exploring the universe (and I don't just mean space exploration) that allows man the potential to move beyond the strife. |
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08/06/2012 04:45:08 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by jagar:
Is not looking to the stars when all around is in strife, not the cause of such strife? metaphorically speaking of course. |
I think the opposite is true. I think the strife is to some extent a byproduct of myopically narrowing horizons.
Message edited by author 2012-08-06 16:45:21. |
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08/06/2012 04:57:22 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by jagar:
Well that explains everything, long live America. |
John,
My apologies if I misinterpreted, but I did read this response as heavily sarcastic. Sure, there's national pride involved. There ought to be. It is an incredibly difficult, and yes, expensive achievement. IMO, the US is to be credited with having, under difficult circumstances, the foresight and determination to carry it off.
Doing this was not just about putting another rover on Mars. In a very real way, it was about advancing the state of our capability such that human travel beyond the Earth-Moon system may someday be a reality. When we look realistically at our natural resource situation, it is abundantly clear that we are tapping not only fuels but metals at an alarming rate. We will be faced in the not-too-distant-future with needing to source these resources off-planet.
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08/06/2012 04:59:42 PM · #37 |
Even with a dictionary I'm having trouble deciphering some of this metaphorically cryptic drivel.
In recap, it seems the gentlemen in the green corner are of the opinion that the investment into the MSL would have been better used by repurposing the funds towards somehow eliminating the strife of the world, and that humanity's constant reach for knowledge, understanding, and greatness only contributes to more inequality amongst men.
The gentlemen in the orange corner makes the counter point that our strife is not at all due to our endeavors. The strife is due to narrowing views that seem to center on short-sightedness, instead of the long-term benefits of "reaching for the stars".
Or something like that...
Message edited by author 2012-08-06 17:01:27. |
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08/06/2012 05:07:41 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
Even with a dictionary I'm having trouble deciphering some of this metaphorically cryptic drivel. |
So, having declared yourself lacking the ability to understand it, and thereby dismissing it as inane and irrelevant, you proceed to summarize for the rest of us ... helpful indeed ...
Someone can now report this post for violating Forum Rule 14, or you can all start playing by it yourselves ...
Message edited by author 2012-08-06 17:08:14. |
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08/06/2012 05:08:48 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
I take umbrage at folks ho had no stake in this spectacular endeavor trying to tear it down. What particularly grates on me is the bad attitude of some folks from the EU, who are supposedly our "friends." It seems that whatever the US does (or even doesn't do) it is, by definition, wrong. We are truly damned if we do, and damned if we don't. |
Um, not really sure about all this, but didn't the European Space Agency contribute quite a bit to this?? Or is this now just a US thingy??
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08/06/2012 05:09:29 PM · #40 |
| Nice to see the forum still obeys the second law of thermodynamics. |
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08/06/2012 05:18:24 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
Even with a dictionary I'm having trouble deciphering some of this metaphorically cryptic drivel. |
So, having declared yourself lacking the ability to understand it, and thereby dismissing it as inane and irrelevant, you proceed to summarize for the rest of us ... helpful indeed ... |
I didn't say I had trouble understanding it, just deciphering it. Maybe those two words are more similar than I realize.
Either way, did I get my summary somewhat right? |
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08/06/2012 05:38:42 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
Either way, did I get my summary somewhat right? |
Nailed it :-) Unless you consider "drivel" part of the summary, at which point you're insulting somebody, though I'm not sure who.... |
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08/06/2012 05:39:55 PM · #43 |
The Frenchman's concerns are not unfounded...
Good to see DPC is still overflowing with love, kindness, civility, tolerance and understanding. (sorry, I misplaced my sarcasm tags) |
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08/06/2012 06:01:57 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
The Frenchman's concerns are not unfounded...
Good to see DPC is still overflowing with love, kindness, civility, tolerance and understanding. (sorry, I misplaced my sarcasm tags) |
Welcome back Art!
This brings up a good point. How many cats had to die for curiosity to succeed? |
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08/06/2012 06:01:58 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Nailed it :-) Unless you consider "drivel" part of the summary, at which point you're insulting somebody, though I'm not sure who.... |
It just felt like a good descriptive noun. I wanted to use big words too! Probably just insulting myself. |
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08/06/2012 06:06:42 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
The Frenchman's concerns are not unfounded...
Good to see DPC is still overflowing with love, kindness, civility, tolerance and understanding. (sorry, I misplaced my sarcasm tags) |
Well, this thread's accomplished SOMETHING! Welcome back, Artemis! |
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08/06/2012 06:11:14 PM · #47 |
Photography in space! MRO (Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter) which has been orbiting Mars since early 2006 has captured a shot of the MSL while its parachute had already been opened in its descending stage. The dark box on the right is just the blown up of what you see on the left.
MSL was photographed by MRO during descent
The Math for this had to be absolutely precise or MRO would have missed this shot. |
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08/06/2012 06:24:33 PM · #48 |
ENOUGH!
I watch the Olympics with a human pride more than a national pride. I watch and celebrate people who have followed their dreams with passion and commitment, not as much to win, but to participate at the highest levels possible and to see if they can push themselves just a bit further than they thought possible. I celebrate those who can barely contain their exuberance and I disdain those whose competitive spirit overshadows their sense of sportsmanship. And I truly appreciate all those behind the scenes, from those picking up the trash in the stands after today's events all the way back to those coaching the kids when they were first discovering their gifts. What they are accomplishing is a visible embodiment of what the human body is capable of.
And these Olympic feats are no more extraordinary than the feats of the teams of engineers and scientist from all over the globe that have contributed decades and decades of hours and hours and hours of mind-bending and mind-numbing efforts to create this unbelievable technological achievement. Simply because it is impossible to see all the benefit of this effort in an immediate sense does not mean that it is without merit or value.
Some people have committed untold hours to developing the skills necessary to perfectly capture a macro of a water drop. Some people have spent countless hours delving into the shadows and blurs of abstract photography in order to produce images that wrap themselves deeply into a viewer's imagination. Some people have spent years developing an eye for capturing candids in such a way to be able to share lost moments with the rest of the world. The list of disciplines in this simple art we share is endless - yet, we are all committed to it without savaging those who tend to follow a different line than the one we have chosen?
So why should this endeavor be any different? Not everyone is going to be a brain surgeon, an internist, a teacher, a builder, an entertainer, a philanthropist. Not everyone is going to drop what they are doing to go plug the dykes or to clear a storm's devastation. Not everyone is able to undertake mission work in a third world country. And not everyone is going to be a rocket scientist. So, why can't we just celebrate those who are committed to accomplishing things that are beyond their reach? Just because they are reaching for something beyond you in no way should diminish their efforts, especially when we all benefit when we prove as a species that we are capable of pushing ourselves beyond our reach. |
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08/06/2012 06:40:24 PM · #49 |
| I personally will try to step out of my (admittedly relatively young) brain cap of culture and thing about not the Why or the How, but instead the What of the situation. This! is seriously amazing. |
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08/06/2012 07:23:09 PM · #50 |
| I stayed up last night with my brother Rick on XBOX live and watched the whole thing. He lives about 50 miles from me now but we have always watched the NASA adventure from as long as I can remember. Here's a quick NASA video of the events of last night. vid |
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