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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> required exif data for originals
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 05/31/2012 11:45:07 AM · #1
hello. i have a ticket into the SC, but also wanted to see if someone knows what the minimum exif dataset may be? the reason i am asking is that i have been taking more cell phone images, but the exif data saved with the original is much less than what my D90 saves.

i if right click on the file and select properties, it does list date created, date modified, file size, dimensions, my cell phone as the "camera" (the only odd thing is that date created is the date saved to my computer from the phone, and date modified is the actual capture date and time).

any feedback much appreciated!

-m
 05/31/2012 11:59:22 AM · #2
Originally posted by mefnj:
hello. i have a ticket into the SC, but also wanted to see if someone knows what the minimum exif dataset may be? the reason i am asking is that i have been taking more cell phone images, but the exif data saved with the original is much less than what my D90 saves.

i if right click on the file and select properties, it does list date created, date modified, file size, dimensions, my cell phone as the "camera" (the only odd thing is that date created is the date saved to my computer from the phone, and date modified is the actual capture date and time).

any feedback much appreciated!

-m


i would think all they cared about was date created.
 05/31/2012 12:02:24 PM · #3
My guess is that's enough. Quite a few of us are using cell phone cameras these days.
 05/31/2012 12:05:00 PM · #4
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by mefnj:
hello. i have a ticket into the SC, but also wanted to see if someone knows what the minimum exif dataset may be? the reason i am asking is that i have been taking more cell phone images, but the exif data saved with the original is much less than what my D90 saves.

i if right click on the file and select properties, it does list date created, date modified, file size, dimensions, my cell phone as the "camera" (the only odd thing is that date created is the date saved to my computer from the phone, and date modified is the actual capture date and time).

any feedback much appreciated!

-m


i would think all they cared about was date created.

I think they also need to see that it wasn't altered by some program (transfer or editing) other than the camera.
 05/31/2012 12:07:46 PM · #5
What the 'phone records is almost certainly enough. There was a day when a lot of 'phones and non-traditional image-capture devices did not record EXIF, but those days are pretty much over.
If you want to be absolutely sure for your device, submit a "General Inquiry" ticket (found under Help>Contact Us on the main site menu) attach a test image and ask whether it is a valid original.
 05/31/2012 12:14:26 PM · #6
Originally posted by kirbic:
What the 'phone records is almost certainly enough. There was a day when a lot of 'phones and non-traditional image-capture devices did not record EXIF, but those days are pretty much over.
If you want to be absolutely sure for your device, submit a "General Inquiry" ticket (found under Help>Contact Us on the main site menu) attach a test image and ask whether it is a valid original.


i did that about a week ago... no response yet ;-(

but since the May FS deadline is today, i thought i would cast about for input to decide if i go with a cell phone capture for the FS
 05/31/2012 12:16:57 PM · #7
I really don't think you have anything to worry about. If the date and time is recorded, that's the biggest thing.
If you asked and received no answer, I'd think you would have a great defense against a DQ in the extremely unlikely case that a question arises.
 05/31/2012 12:17:33 PM · #8
Originally posted by mefnj:
Originally posted by kirbic:
What the 'phone records is almost certainly enough. There was a day when a lot of 'phones and non-traditional image-capture devices did not record EXIF, but those days are pretty much over.
If you want to be absolutely sure for your device, submit a "General Inquiry" ticket (found under Help>Contact Us on the main site menu) attach a test image and ask whether it is a valid original.


i did that about a week ago... no response yet ;-(

but since the May FS deadline is today, i thought i would cast about for input to decide if i go with a cell phone capture for the FS


just submit it, you can't wait forever, a dq ins't the end of the world.
 05/31/2012 01:25:15 PM · #9
FYI... SC reply that just came in...

========
if your camera/phone/iPad/whatever records EXIF data, then it will be legal for DPC entries. The only thing you really have to watch is that your transfer method doesn't modify the file. Originals must be exactly as recorded by your device, so if possible the files should be copied directly rather than transferred via software. Hope that helps!
========

and thanks for all your feedback, too!

-m

Message edited by author 2012-05-31 13:25:40.
 05/31/2012 01:44:01 PM · #10
Originally posted by mefnj:
... (the only odd thing is that date created is the date saved to my computer from the phone, and date modified is the actual capture date and time).

I didn't see your ticket (or any sample), but this could be a problem ... as kirbic mentioned, use a card reader and your computer's OS to simply *copy* (NOT *transfer*) the file(s) from your phone to the computer -- any "modification" by the transfer software (even if it just changes the date) can still result in a DQ.
 05/31/2012 02:13:51 PM · #11
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by mefnj:
... (the only odd thing is that date created is the date saved to my computer from the phone, and date modified is the actual capture date and time).

I didn't see your ticket (or any sample), but this could be a problem ... as kirbic mentioned, use a card reader and your computer's OS to simply *copy* (NOT *transfer*) the file(s) from your phone to the computer -- any "modification" by the transfer software (even if it just changes the date) can still result in a DQ.


GeneralE,
Thanks. i simply mounted the SD card in my phone and copied the image files to my computer by the USB cable. it recorded "date modified" as the date the shot was captured, and "date created" as the date it was copied from the SD card to the computer... both were in May, about a day apart, so i would assume that would be OK regardless.
 05/31/2012 03:28:21 PM · #12
Originally posted by mefnj:
... both were in May, about a day apart, so i would assume that would be OK regardless.

That may not be a valid assumtion -- something is modifying the file, even if it's only changing the date, but that can still make it an invalid original. Copying with the OS should not change the dates.

My recommendation is to remove the card from the phone, mount it using a card reader, and drag-and-drop the files to the hard drive.
 05/31/2012 04:12:51 PM · #13
Any time you make a copy of a file it sets the creation date. The creation date has no meaning in regards to the contents of the file, it's only the date it was copied. The modified date is the important one, it signifies the last time the contents of the file have changed, which in this case that's whats important.
 05/31/2012 04:34:52 PM · #14
Originally posted by bhuge:
Any time you make a copy of a file it sets the creation date. The creation date has no meaning in regards to the contents of the file, it's only the date it was copied. The modified date is the important one, it signifies the last time the contents of the file have changed, which in this case that's whats important.


Also, if the original is still on your phone, you're fine.
 05/31/2012 05:31:44 PM · #15
i just did the drag and drop method from the SD card after removing it from the phone. it did the same thing... the "date modified" is still the capture date, and the "date created" is now listed as today. I am using Win 7 Pro... not sure if that is just the way the core file system deals with copied files.

hopefully with what the others piped in, i'm still OK.

thanks again,
-m
 05/31/2012 07:06:09 PM · #16
Are you looking at the Windows file into or the actual EXIF with an editing program?

The date showing in your window/folder, may not be the same as that embedded in the EXIF.
 05/31/2012 07:20:34 PM · #17
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Are you looking at the Windows file into or the actual EXIF with an editing program?

The date showing in your window/folder, may not be the same as that embedded in the EXIF.


i was right-clicking on the file then selecting Properties. Both Capture NX2 and ViewNX also list the capture date as "Date Modified" and the date the file was put onto my computer as the "Date Created". InfranView gives the same date as "Date Modified", but just calls it "Date Time". Exifer doesn't seem to be able to read the file info.

-Mark
 05/31/2012 07:41:18 PM · #18
I use Zoombrowser to find my exif data to fill in the boxes in challenge submissions, and that shows a box of shooting information in which the shooting date and time are recorded. It has another set of information which records date modified and that will be the date uploaded to the computer unless something else has been done to the image since then, in which case that date will appear. However, all that has nothing to do with my uploading, processing, saving and submitting, and I have never given a thought to what exif information gets processed with my submissions. I use camera software to upload to my computer and so far my validations have worked fine. It seems I must have been lucky - if camera transfers can appear as modifications - because only once (one and only blue) have I uploaded an original using the computer's card reader.
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