Your SCORE makes me GREEN with envy!!!

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

05/30/2012 10:58:29 AM · #26

Originally posted by Ecce Signum:

Originally posted by JamesDowning:

Originally posted by mgsmith53:
Wow...a 2 and a 3 in close succession, on a pic otherwise in the 6+ range. Looks like they don't like green or macros.

Yeah, I just took a nice plunge.

hehe, went to the shops with a 6.8 and came back with a 6.3. Best not to pay attention to averages till after the 50 vote mark ;)

Yeah some harsh voting going on, makes me laugh when you have people voting 1s and 2s on shots that in all honesty some of them probably wouldn't know where to start to try and take the shot. Don't care who it is or how they try and justify their voting system I just think voting 1s and 2s on technically good shots that meet the challenge criteria stinks somewhat of cheating. I had an idea where people with really low averages shouldn't be allowed to vote on challenges that they are entered in to, would make a good study to see if their averages increased considerably I think....

knikki

Canon EOS-60D

05/30/2012 11:00:28 AM · #27

I don't watch the play-by-play with voting on my shot. It stresses me out too much. I'm happy with my shot - I hope it is doing well, but I imagine it's somewhere in the "meh" range. i'm praying it breaks a 5.2 because I think it's one of my best so far. (My first shot at post processing) But regardless - I'm happy with it, and maybe I'll get some good comments / pointers / suggestions to keep the momentum moving forward. I'm getting better. I feel it. And I'm enjoying it so much more with all the new things I'm learning.

05/30/2012 11:04:31 AM · #28

Originally posted by Mark-A:

Nothing would drive membership like not allowing paid members to vote.

Also, how does it stink of cheating? Do you know what cheating entails?

CS

Message edited by author 2012-05-30 11:06:24.

05/30/2012 11:06:49 AM · #29

Originally posted by cosmicassassin:

Nothing would drive membership like not allowing paid members to vote.
CS

The majority of voters don't have 2.x / 3.x average votes given so I don't think it would worry the vast majority.

05/30/2012 11:08:48 AM · #30

Originally posted by cosmicassassin:

Also, how does it stink of cheating? Do you know what cheating entails?

CS

How hard it is to think oh that shot is better than mine I will vote that one down?

05/30/2012 11:10:15 AM · #31

Originally posted by Mark-A:

Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
Nothing would drive membership like not allowing paid members to vote.
CS

The majority of voters don't have 2.x / 3.x average votes given so I don't think it would worry the vast majority.

If they're voting on every entry, what does it matter? You're still being ranked against the other entrants. Show me mathematically that there is something wrong with the system if some people vote a little too harshly, according to you, across the board. Short answer is you can't. Long answer is you can't.

CS

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

05/30/2012 11:13:04 AM · #32

Originally posted by Mark-A:

Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
Also, how does it stink of cheating? Do you know what cheating entails?

CS

How hard it is to think oh that shot is better than mine I will vote that one down?

It may not be a fair or honest way to vote, but it's not cheating.
Voting rules.

CS

Message edited by author 2012-05-30 11:13:59.

klkitchens

Pentax K-1

Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4 AF

05/30/2012 11:14:15 AM · #33

Originally posted by cosmicassassin:

Originally posted by Mark-A:

Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
Also, how does it stink of cheating? Do you know what cheating entails?

CS

How hard it is to think oh that shot is better than mine I will vote that one down?

It may not be a fair or honest way to vote, but it's not cheating.

CS

I still suggest it would be best to show the average vote on each image by ENTRANTS -- not participants.

knikki

Canon EOS-60D

05/30/2012 11:15:55 AM · #34

p.s. No matter how good your shot is, technically, if it isn't primarily green and involving a macro - I gave it a DNMC vote.

Across the board.

(Although I gave ALOT of high scores in this one as well - nicely done, people!)

05/30/2012 11:17:34 AM · #35

It doesn't matter to me how you justify it, if someone is cheating (not saying you are) then they should be monitored and banned, not easy to prove especially with someone like you who likes throwing 1s and 2s around for fun - I am sorry but there is a voting scale that should be used as a scale, you justify your scoring that you want to give the shots you want to win 8s, 9s and 10s and almost everything else is at the short end of the scale, that's fine I guess, but bunching an image that is technically sound and well processed with one that is maybe technically lacking and poorly processed hardly seems fair by any scale, and as I say if that voting is used in an unfair manner to deliberately lowball vote on shots then in my mind that constitutes cheating but as I say almost impossible to prove.

05/30/2012 11:20:13 AM · #36

Originally posted by cosmicassassin:

Actually, it is:

You may not:
attempt to alter the point totals for any entry in any way.

By voting an entry up or down to manipulate it's placement in a challenge, you're attempting to alter the point totals. You're supposed to vote on the image, not try to adjust how it's going to place relative to other images.

Message edited by author 2012-05-30 11:23:21.

05/30/2012 11:21:01 AM · #37

Originally posted by cosmicassassin:

It may not be a fair or honest way to vote, but it's not cheating.
Voting rules.

CS

I would say it does constitute cheating on this rule

You May Not:

vote in a manner that suggests an intent to disrupt the voting system.

05/30/2012 11:37:20 AM · #38

Originally posted by klkitchens:

I still suggest it would be best to show the average vote on each image by ENTRANTS -- not participants.

I thought this was one and the same - am I not correct in thinking that participants has the meaning someone who has entered a shot in THIS given challenge?

klkitchens

Pentax K-1

Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4 AF

05/30/2012 11:43:08 AM · #39

Originally posted by Mark-A:

Originally posted by klkitchens:
I still suggest it would be best to show the average vote on each image by ENTRANTS -- not participants.

I thought this was one and the same - am I not correct in thinking that participants has the meaning someone who has entered a shot in THIS given challenge?

Unless they changed it, no.. participants was those who entered OR commented on any photo.

05/30/2012 11:47:29 AM · #40

Originally posted by vawendy:

That rule makes no sense. By casting a vote you're altering the points total unless the entry has an integer average and your vote matches that integer.

Also, if I don't know what your average is, it's kind of hard to gauge whether my vote is helping or hindering your score. For all I know, my 2's and 3's could be helping you out. Even my 1's could help out in those first few minutes. You had a 0, now you have a 1. That's an infinite gain all within one vote.

I posit that if your interpretation is correct, than the current challenge format is broken. What's the point of judging individual entries outside the context of the challenge? Since we know there has to be winners and losers, it makes sense the entrants are compared to each other and voters vote within this context.

CS

klkitchens

Pentax K-1

Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4 AF

05/30/2012 11:52:38 AM · #41

Originally posted by cosmicassassin:

You had a 0, now you have a 1. That's an infinite gain all within one vote.

Sorry... that was LOL funny.

True, but funny.

Spin of the year award... you work for Obama? :)

05/30/2012 11:56:53 AM · #42

Originally posted by cosmicassassin:

Originally posted by vawendy:

Actually, it is:

You may not:
attempt to alter the point totals for any entry in any way.

By voting an entry up or down to manipulate it's placement in a challenge, you're attempting to alter the point totals. You're supposed to vote on the image, not try to adjust how it's going to place relative to other images.

That rule makes no sense. By casting a vote you're altering the points total unless the entry has an integer average and your vote matches that integer.

Also, if I don't know what your average is, it's kind of hard to gauge whether my vote is helping or hindering your score. For all I know, my 2's and 3's could be helping you out. Even my 1's could help out in those first few minutes. You had a 0, now you have a 1. That's an infinite gain all within one vote.

I posit that if your interpretation is correct, than the current challenge format is broken. What's the point of judging individual entries outside the context of the challenge? Since we know there has to be winners and losers, it makes sense the entrants are compared to each other and voters vote within this context.

CS

When you cast a vote for an image, based on that image, you are not trying to manipulate the point total. When you pick your favorites and score them, and then score everything else significantly down so that your favorites rise to the top, that's manipulating the point total.

lilysmom

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

05/30/2012 12:00:49 PM · #43

This morning I was at 6.2something and now I'm down to
5.6something. I'm actually surprised it is that high. I entered at the last minute.

I don't have a problem with low voting as long as it is done across the board. Some people just vote lower than others.

05/30/2012 12:04:06 PM · #44

Originally posted by cosmicassassin:

I think your interpreting the rule a bit too literally, I believe it is a rule that's in place to stop people voting like you do actually now I come to think of it, deliberately down voting competent shots to try and alter the placings considerably - Your voting is consistent I won't argue that - but I do think it's misguided and unfair. You are trying to alter the placings in all challenges you vote on with such a heavy bias that you are affecting the scores in a manner that does not comply with the rules (IMHO) - If someone was to vote like you do and was to use that to what they considered their advantage and deliberately voted down shots they considered were ahead of theirs come the final placings then you can see where this would lead especially if there was suddenly a number of people voting this way.

I voted Gyabans Ghost image down because I believed it was not photographic - however his emergency shot was much more photgraphic and got my highest vote, I believe there is consistency in that voting and the only difference was I was entered in the Ghost challenge - I very nearly didn't vote on the whole challenge because of this vote and I decided in the end that I would have low voted his shot whether I was entered or not so went ahead and voted on every image in the challenge as I try to always do. However had I only low voted him because I was entered then I would consider myself a cheat and to be honest if I cannot beat someones score fairly then I wouldn't want to beat their score at all, a win for me needs to be earned not wangled by vote rigging I have never understood why this happens and I mean it's not even like there are real prizes to be won here!....

ETA: Spelling.

Message edited by author 2012-05-30 12:05:44.

05/30/2012 12:04:09 PM · #45

I have no problem with low voting if that's what they think the entry deserves. But lowering things simply to raise other things doesn't seem to fit the rules.

Message edited by author 2012-05-30 12:05:51.

05/30/2012 12:07:14 PM · #46

Originally posted by vawendy:

I would argue it's the exact same vote for many voters. There's a reason they got that high score to begin with, there was something within that photo that resonated with the voter. The converse is also true.

CS

05/30/2012 12:12:19 PM · #47

Originally posted by cosmicassassin:

Originally posted by vawendy:
When you cast a vote for an image, based on that image, you are not trying to manipulate the point total. When you pick your favorites and score them, and then score everything else significantly down so that your favorites rise to the top, that's manipulating the point total.

I would argue it's the exact same vote for many voters. There's a reason they got that high score to begin with, there was something within that photo that resonated with the voter. The converse is also true.

CS

Definitely. I agree with that. It's fine when something resonates -- that's a good photograph (at least in relation to that person)

And it's fine when there's a photograph that you truly hate.

Those are both fair votes.

Perhaps I've misunderstood you in the past, but you've said in the past that you find the ones you like and you vote the other ones down because you want to make sure that your favorites get the full benefit of your vote.

That sounds like padding the favorites.

But maybe I misunderstood.

05/30/2012 12:16:58 PM · #48

Originally posted by cosmicassassin:

But by your own admission several times that's not entirely true is it, you have admitted that you push your favorites to the top end of the scale and pretty much everything else is really low ball voted to try and manipulate the scores in favour of your top shots. You do not vote on the individual image qualities outside of this very limited voting system / strategy you use.

Someone who takes the time to score each photo on it's merits and adjusts slightly for personal preference is IMHO using the voting system as it is intended and complying with the rules as they are laid out.

05/30/2012 12:18:06 PM · #49

Wendy lol thats twice we have typed pretty much the exact same thing ;)