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04/20/2004 03:41:45 AM · #1 |
In all my 18 challenges, I have scored below a 5 five times. Two of those times I scored below a 4, and they were my first two entries ever, and I didn't know a thing about photography or how this site interprets it.
Now, in my 19th challenge, in Silhouettes, I'm hodling on at 3.9. Its as though I'm having a relapse or something!
I don't mean to sound like I'm complaining. Just reflecting on the reasons. I thought I'd figured out where the line was drawn here between art and photography, and where on that line your photo can stand and still be acceptable to the majority of the voters. I guess I slipped up on this one. Too bad, because I really like my photo, though I can see now where others might just see it is uninteresting - the general theme of the comments I've been getting.
Oh well. Living and learning.
Darcy
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04/20/2004 09:41:18 AM · #2 |
The hardest part of participating on this site is trying to figure out what pleases the masses. But at the same time, by pleasing the masses, are you pleasing yourself? Please yourself first, then take whatever advice is given, see how it fits into your vision and don't ever stop thinking outside the box. Cheers.
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04/20/2004 10:06:33 AM · #3 |
| Chin up Darcy. I actually won a ribbon in a previous challenge, but my silhouette entry is holding at 3.3. Its time to move on and start working on the next challenge. Just about the time you think you have it figured out....it changes. |
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04/20/2004 10:36:20 AM · #4 |
Yep, I agree, I have just browsed the entries and I feel that my shot is as good if not better than many, yet I am hovering around the 5 mark.
I like my shot and ,in a way that is all that matters.
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04/20/2004 10:52:44 AM · #5 |
| You are not alone Darcy. My last five entries (including the current two) averaged 5.1422. The previous five entries averaged 6.1708. In that same stretch, I've gone from an average of 19 comments per Challenge down to 6. I'm obviously not heading in the right direction! |
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04/20/2004 11:04:07 AM · #6 |
I entered this challenge with some pretty high hopes. I thought I had a good shot and even friends who saw it said "WOW" when they saw the picture......but my current score of 5.2 obviously doesn't reflect that. Different audience I suppose. What matters is that I really like the picture and am happy with it.
My favorite personal picture ever that I've taken has won me some popularity here at work and amongst friends, was printed in a 6ft x 9ft banner for winning a contest and has also won me some cool hardware from Sony...was only good enough for 10th place when I submitted it here. You never know around here.
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04/20/2004 11:05:13 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by orussell:
don't ever stop thinking outside the box. |
Owen up until recently, I would have backed that statement 100% but since this recent Photoshop "paranoia" has swept across the site,I`m thinking of sticking to snapshots.
My "Strength" submission has had to be validated and after airing my wrath on the subject of people jumping to the wrong conclusion yesterday in one of the threads on the subject, I`ve just received a comment telling me my "Silhouettes" submission has had too much "Photoshopping" and scored it a 2.
Needless to say the steam is coming out the ears as there are other ways to achieve these simple effects with just the camera and some of the people pointing fingers should know this.
This follows on from previous submissions which received the same mistaken comments.
Why should we bother trying to be creative when people will just think... Photoshop.???
Gordon |
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04/20/2004 11:57:51 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by geewhy:
Originally posted by orussell:
don't ever stop thinking outside the box. |
Owen up until recently, I would have backed that statement 100% but since this recent Photoshop "paranoia" has swept across the site,I`m thinking of sticking to snapshots.
My "Strength" submission has had to be validated and after airing my wrath on the subject of people jumping to the wrong conclusion yesterday in one of the threads on the subject, I`ve just received a comment telling me my "Silhouettes" submission has had too much "Photoshopping" and scored it a 2.
Needless to say the steam is coming out the ears as there are other ways to achieve these simple effects with just the camera and some of the people pointing fingers should know this.
This follows on from previous submissions which received the same mistaken comments.
Why should we bother trying to be creative when people will just think... Photoshop.???
Gordon |
Yeah Gordon, I think it's sad that people have become very suspicious and paronoid lately - and I don't think any of us are immune - the question you always end up asking yourself is, "How did they achieve this, in camera or in computer?" Still not a good reason to quell your creativity - I still believe you have to please yourself first and yes, think outside the box.
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04/20/2004 12:13:21 PM · #9 |
Geewhy
Just pointing out your slightly two faced attitude
I suppose I'll have to give away my submission to you but, you commented......
"I would have been tempted to do a little cloning here"
Hmmmm
Confused?
Steve
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04/20/2004 12:21:21 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Tallbloke:
Geewhy
Just pointing out your slightly two faced attitude
I suppose I'll have to give away my submission to you but, you commented......
"I would have been tempted to do a little cloning here"
Hmmmm
Steve |
Don`t understand why you think I`m being two faced..if it`s because you think that I am getting at people for using advanced techniques..then
absolutely not..and if you care to look at the threads I mention.. you will see that I state that cloning and smudge are the only two procedures outwith basic editing that I use..(or indeed are capable of using, since I don`t interest myself in advanced editing).The comments I am receiving are hinting that I used techniques that I wouldn`t have a clue how to use and scoring me down for it and that`s whats so frustrating.
Hope that clears up your confusion..(and judging from your choice of words)anger..don`t worry, I won`t go back and mark down your score. :)
Gordon
Message edited by author 2004-04-20 13:58:47. |
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04/20/2004 12:33:25 PM · #11 |
| That's what makes this site exciting ... you never know how your photo will fare with the discerning audience, so you are always on your toes, you are always learning. As long as you believe that you've submitted a photo that you think was best for the challenge, I think you're ok. My current entry is competing for the brown ribbon and will probably be in last place when this challenge is over but, the best thing about it is, it has received 26 comments so far (!). At least it is provoking people to comment. |
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04/20/2004 12:45:55 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by flip89:
That's what makes this site exciting ... you never know how your photo will fare with the discerning audience, so you are always on your toes, you are always learning. As long as you believe that you've submitted a photo that you think was best for the challenge, I think you're ok. My current entry is competing for the brown ribbon and will probably be in last place when this challenge is over but, the best thing about it is, it has received 26 comments so far (!). At least it is provoking people to comment. |
You`re absolutely right Ken, I`ve done a bit of experimenting with exposure in some of my submissions and the image I`m really happy with is my lowest scoring one..I`ve no problem with people not liking my work as long as I feel I`ve got what I was looking for from the shot.
It`s being accused of using techniques that I don`t even know how to use and being scored down for it that I find frustrating. |
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04/20/2004 01:02:32 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
I've gone from an average of 19 comments per Challenge down to 6. I'm obviously not heading in the right direction! |
Shannon, your photos are interesting and fun, keep up the good work.
I'd question that it's not you, but if the site is heading in the right direction.
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04/20/2004 01:08:48 PM · #14 |
| Thanks for the compliment, Jim. That's why comments are better than scores. |
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04/20/2004 01:16:12 PM · #15 |
Strength Challenge.....Just a thought...I have voted my usual 20... 30 percent...and I always take Photos "outside the box"... and I have enjoyed voting this time because of the number of submissions that went that way this time...
Message edited by author 2004-04-20 13:19:20. |
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04/20/2004 01:53:36 PM · #16 |
Hi I think you are just posting to participate, and not to win don't take me wrong i think you are a good photographer but some of your pictures need to have more composition and detail of what you really want to show.
good luck victor martinez |
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04/20/2004 02:07:49 PM · #17 |
Geewhy
Thanks for the reply
No I'm not angry, more of a cheeky observation.
I had read into your previous post that you were complaining about the current spate of Photochopping and then posting comments encouraging Photochopping.
Apologies for my mis-reading of your words.
Steve
p.s. Any chance you could now go back and mark UP coz my score has been slipping steadily for the past 24 hours..........och. ;-)
Edit = Spelling mistake
Message edited by author 2004-04-20 14:09:15. |
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04/20/2004 02:17:24 PM · #18 |
There are so many exceptional photographs in the Silhouette challenge that I am surprised my entry is staying above five!
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04/20/2004 02:19:26 PM · #19 |
| Mine is actually going up this time, instead of the usual decline. Still not many comments, though. 102 votes, 2 comments, 5.58 |
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04/20/2004 02:36:45 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Tallbloke:
Geewhy
Thanks for the reply
No I'm not angry, more of a cheeky observation.
I had read into your previous post that you were complaining about the current spate of Photochopping and then posting comments encouraging Photochopping.
Apologies for my mis-reading of your words.
Steve
p.s. Any chance you could now go back and mark UP coz my score has been slipping steadily for the past 24 hours..........och. ;-)
Edit = Spelling mistake |
Glad there`s no misunderstanding..I`ve never complained about people using Photoshop (in fact I admire their skills)just me being accused of it and punished in the process.
From memory, I scored your image quite highly Steve...surprised to hear it`s taken a turn for the worse...bet it`s doing better than mine :(
I made sure I wouldn`t get slagged for washing out the sky in this one..but it hasn`t helped much...Never mind there`s always the next challenge.
Gordon |
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04/20/2004 04:24:02 PM · #21 |
| I think it would be a good thing if, as a group, we made a consious effort to avoid entering photos that look like they have been edited using illegal methods. To me, this means we should restrain ourselves from trying to find a legal means to acheive the look of an illegal method. We all ought to be a little more alert to the possibility of illegal methods when voting, but don't go overboard. Would this approach squelch anyone's creativity? |
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04/20/2004 04:36:28 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by geewhy:
Glad there`s no misunderstanding..I`ve never complained about people using Photoshop (in fact I admire their skills)just me being accused of it and punished in the process.
Gordon |
Technology marches on, and sometimes we get run over. I too was amazed at what can be done in PS, to the point i am trying to learn it. There are 10 different ways to do the same thing with it (some are not legal some are, some are legal work arounds). Sorry to hear you are getting lambasted for your (non-PS) efforts.
I have yet to hear anyone complain about desaturated images (b&w, sepia, etc) or ones with color shifts, nagatives, one-yellow/red/blue itemin an otherwise b&w pic, etc. All PS work! Interesting what sets people off - apparently being at a disadvantage (in their mind or pocketbook) is one.
PS 'skills' should be looked at just like a tripod or 300mm lens or external flash - another tool. If you have it, you use it. If you don't, then oh well, do what you can with what you got.
There are many things one can illegally do to a pic and never got caught. I have seen programs that let one edit the original EXIF info and leave no 'footprints' (never a DQ with that!)
You like it, give it a 10. You don't give it a 9 (ok, a 4 maybe LOL)
If HOW it was done is going to determine how you vote then you will be forever doubting everything you see.
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04/20/2004 04:45:23 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by bestagents:
If HOW it was done is going to determine how you vote then you will be forever doubting everything you see. |
My point exactly. |
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04/20/2004 04:57:17 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
I think it would be a good thing if, as a group, we made a consious effort to avoid entering photos that look like they have been edited using illegal methods. To me, this means we should restrain ourselves from trying to find a legal means to acheive the look of an illegal method. We all ought to be a little more alert to the possibility of illegal methods when voting, but don't go overboard. Would this approach squelch anyone's creativity? |
The problem with the "illegal method" concept is that an illegal method in one program, is a legal operation in another. In PS, it was legal to use the gaussian blur and fade effect, which reduces the amount of gaussian blur applied to give you a nice soft focus. In PSe, the only way to do this is to apply a gaussian blur to a layer above, and then adjust transparency, then merge layers. Both are doing the same thing. One is legal, the other is not, under basic editing rules.
This is just an example of why the "rules" should be stated in terms of the "result", not the method. Not to get into the whole debate, just thought I'd point out that it's sometimes unfair to make discrete "operations" illegal, when in fact some legal "effects" use the same operations.
Lastly, my favorite restriction: I can't under the current rules take a bracketed exposure and combine the identical images with differing exposures (on a tripod) to get more dynamic range. Even though the picture is more representative of what my eyes see than the single frame. But I can draw in a frame and pretend it's a window view!
The solution in my book is to come up with scene integrity rules.
And Gordon, the real issue is that people should not be scoring you down, even if they generate a DQ request. There should be no problem getting the DQ requests since you are within the rules (perhaps a little "hassle") The problem is simply people should not be taking away points because they think you edited it.
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04/20/2004 05:08:07 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
I think it would be a good thing if, as a group, we made a consious effort to avoid entering photos that look like they have been edited using illegal methods. |
That's a difficult goal to achieve. Good use of Photoshop doesn't necessarily appear edited, yet a dazzling sunset or other perfectly natural scene can look fake straight out of the camera. Gordon's point is that it's discouraging when your score is crippled by voters who merely assume you've used Photoshop- even though we're supposed to vote as if the image is valid. It's just plain rude. |
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