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05/18/2012 06:31:03 AM · #1 |
| If thursday's challenge has unofficially become "expert editing thursday" how about a minimal or basic challenge once a week? if expert helps us learn pp techniques why not a challenge to balance it, to learn to get it right in camera? or, if it's to be a steady staple, why not make it the tuesday exclusive challenge, expert or basic? |
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05/18/2012 06:35:46 AM · #2 |
nothing is stopping you from entering a minimal editing in expert.
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05/18/2012 06:38:16 AM · #3 |
+1
I enjoy voting on expert editing but I'm not really inspired to enter as it is not really my style or in my skill level. Why Rant? This would have been fine in Current Challenge area in my opinion. |
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05/18/2012 06:44:35 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by Abra:
Why Rant? |
have you seen previous expert/basic/minimal threads? i know where this is going to go, or at least has potential to go.
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05/18/2012 06:53:51 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by FourPointX:
If thursday's challenge has unofficially become "expert editing thursday" how about a minimal or basic challenge once a week? if expert helps us learn pp techniques why not a challenge to balance it, to learn to get it right in camera? or, if it's to be a steady staple, why not make it the tuesday exclusive challenge, expert or basic? |
Basic and minimal don't attract as many people, looks like the die has been cast, i strongly don't believe its fare though and we should have its opposite once a week, never mind life goes on and instant gratification will always win out in our plastic shallow world, if the subject fits i shall try my best to be an expert in an expert world.
Mike, as an experiment, try entering a minimal edit in an expert challenge, see how it does.
Message edited by author 2012-05-18 06:54:48. |
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05/18/2012 06:54:37 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by FourPointX:
Originally posted by Abra:
Why Rant? |
have you seen previous expert/basic/minimal threads? i know where this is going to go, or at least has potential to go. |
Yeah, fair enough. Let me throw some fuel on the flame. "Only minimal editing brings out the true photographer" jk :-)
eta for spelling
Message edited by author 2012-05-18 06:56:36. |
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05/18/2012 06:57:38 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by jagar:
Mike, as an experiment, try entering a minimal edit in an expert challenge, see how it does. |
i doubt it. i once entered an advanced edit that got top ten once, in fact it was about basic editing but nitpicked it to advanced becuase i could probably would have been the same result. Unfortunately the whole stupid cant shoot in raw aspect kills it for me. i spent too much money on my camera to throw away all the sensor data on a jpg capture.
i enjoy this subject too much to do it on this one.
Message edited by author 2012-05-18 07:02:19. |
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05/18/2012 07:04:49 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by jagar:
Mike, as an experiment, try entering a minimal edit in an expert challenge, see how it does. |
one of these days, i entered an advanced edit that got top ten.
i enjoy this subject too much to do it on this one. |
Me too, i got the blue with an advanced edit but it would be a daunting task to do it with basic or minimal.
There are four categories of editing rules, when we use one of the extremes it is only fare and just to use the other, i don't mind expert but once a week will definitely make me think twice about staying here.
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05/18/2012 07:12:18 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by jagar:
i don't mind expert but once a week will definitely make me think twice about staying here. |
really? if we had a minimal once i week i just wouldn't enter, i wouldn't leave, there are plenty of other challenges to participate in.
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05/18/2012 07:14:49 AM · #10 |
actually you have me thinking, i wonder that if this is going to be a current theme (one expert per week), maybe we should have a concurrently running expert and minimal challenges, pick on or the other.
even though i dont like minimal only seems to fair to those that do.
i may be a too much though, so maybe alternate?
Message edited by author 2012-05-18 07:15:29. |
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05/18/2012 07:16:39 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by jagar:
i don't mind expert but once a week will definitely make me think twice about staying here. |
really? if we had a minimal once i week i just wouldn't enter, i wouldn't leave, there are plenty of other challenges to participate in. |
If we had a minimal once a week it would be only fare to have an expert and I would expect that and feel exactly the same as how I do now. |
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05/18/2012 07:21:23 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by jagar:
Basic and minimal don't attract as many people, looks like the die has been cast, |
Actually John, I hate to contradict, but statistically there are more entries (on average) in minimal editing challenges than there are in Expert :) We have had 37 completed expert editing challenges and only 14 completed minimal editing challenges. I calculated (but did exclude the 2 expert free studies, as there has never been a minimal free study so it's not comparable) that the average number of participants in the 35 expert challenges is 85 and in the minimal editing is 118.
Average participants for minimal in 2011/2012 = 95
Average participants for expert in 2011/2012 = 68.
Number of minimal challenges since beginning of 2011 = 6
Number of expert =23.
So bring on the minimal challenges! ETA. There is room for both, or at least there should be.
Also, please note the stats are very rough calculations
Message edited by author 2012-05-18 07:24:36. |
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05/18/2012 07:23:13 AM · #13 |
Actually, we've never had that have we?
Concurrent exclusive challenges - same subject but different rules. Expert and Minimal would be fun.
Actually, why exclusive - it might be fun to enter both.
What an intriguing idea. Well done Mike. |
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05/18/2012 07:25:35 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by salmiakki:
Originally posted by jagar:
Basic and minimal don't attract as many people, looks like the die has been cast, |
Actually John, I hate to contradict, but statistically there are more entries (on average) in minimal editing challenges than there are in Expert :) We have had 37 completed expert editing challenges and only 14 completed minimal editing challenges. I calculated (but did exclude the 2 expert free studies, as there has never been a minimal free study so it's not comparable) that the average number of participants in the 35 expert challenges is 85 and in the minimal editing is 118.
Average for minimal in 2011/2012 = 95
Average for expert in 2011/2012 = 68.
Number of minimal challenges since beginning of 2011 = 6
Number of expert =23.
So bring on the minimal challenges! |
Cool, I'm very glad I'm wrong and thanks for correcting me Sara. No excuses now, to get the numbers back, let's bring out a minimal once a week as well. |
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05/18/2012 07:28:10 AM · #15 |
Why not just make it so that on Thursdays we have both an Expert AND a Basic / Minimal, let the people decide?
I am sure it can't be that difficult to set up they could even run with the same challenge theme that would be an interesting comparison.... |
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05/18/2012 09:36:46 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by Mark-A:
Why not just make it so that on Thursdays we have both an Expert AND a Basic / Minimal, let the people decide?
I am sure it can't be that difficult to set up they could even run with the same challenge theme that would be an interesting comparison.... |
that was my initial thought, but it might be too much choice and too much to vote on. that why i say to keep it fair, alternate. even though participation seems decent right now, we probably dont want to dilute with too many concurrent challenges.
as far as the choice of editing on the same subject, i think that's a bad idea. i actually think it would hurt the minimal editing since people may unfairly judge the minimal against the expert, albeit subconsciously when voting, keep the subjects different.
Message edited by author 2012-05-18 09:38:04. |
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05/18/2012 09:38:53 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
as far as the choice of editing on the same subject, i think that's a bad idea. i actually think it would hurt the minimal editing since people may unfairly judge the minimal against the expert, albeit subconsciously when voting, keep the subjects different. |
+1 |
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05/18/2012 11:08:38 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by pamb:
Originally posted by mike_311:
as far as the choice of editing on the same subject, i think that's a bad idea. i actually think it would hurt the minimal editing since people may unfairly judge the minimal against the expert, albeit subconsciously when voting, keep the subjects different. |
+1 |
I think that happens even without having a concurrent challenge. Expert editing blue ribbon winners frequently have a higher score than other challenge winners, 8+ in many cases. |
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05/18/2012 01:10:42 PM · #19 |
I'm all for an alternating Expert / Basic (or minimal, for you zealots).
But I am also in favor of an "Open Bar Friday" and that's never gonna happen. |
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05/18/2012 01:53:57 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by CJinCA:
I think that happens even without having a concurrent challenge. Expert editing blue ribbon winners frequently have a higher score than other challenge winners, 8+ in many cases. |
I'm sure it will self-correct over time.
I'm all for the expert rule set. There will always be a few in the challenge that stand out as excellent photographs that leveraged the rules. I happen to look forward to those images. |
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05/18/2012 06:48:43 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Originally posted by CJinCA:
I think that happens even without having a concurrent challenge. Expert editing blue ribbon winners frequently have a higher score than other challenge winners, 8+ in many cases. |
I'm sure it will self-correct over time.
I'm all for the expert rule set. There will always be a few in the challenge that stand out as excellent photographs that leveraged the rules. I happen to look forward to those images. |
It is possible that the really high scores Expert entries are drawing on the site will self-correct as people visit other sites with some really impressive creative edits. I would just hope at some point the voting base becomes more knowledgeable about what is possible (or not) with each rule set and the scores settle in to all be on par with each other.
As far the Expert challenges actually having fewer entries goes; that's true for now. However, I learned the other day that the Deviant Art site gets huge traffic as compared to DPC. So I can't help but think this might be the driving force behind the marked increase of Expert challenges here at DPC- to bring in a larger audience eventually.
Maybe Sundays will be Expert only soon too? Is DPC being prepped so it can be sold for a higher amount? Maybe to Deviant Art?
Sadly, I see this site working less and less for me as someone who is more interested in being behind a lens than in front of a computer. But I'm old and still more in awe of reality. I suppose younger generations that were brought up on video games like this new style of photography/editing better than reality. Times change... |
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05/19/2012 09:18:33 AM · #22 |
| it actually takes skill and lots of luck to truly capture an amazing image. expert editing takes away the luck. |
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05/19/2012 09:52:29 AM · #23 |
In certain circumstances we create our own luck. If I'm having a street shooting day, I can easily walk for five or six hours in one day, magnificent things happen all around us all the time, its just a question of spotting them, some days we do it better than others. This photo was taken outside the most beautiful church in Porto Potrugal, there were many photographers standing right next to me with lots of gear but all of them pointing in the other direction.
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05/20/2012 12:06:58 PM · #24 |
Some of us have Rant turned off, so don't see the occasional gems that get tossed in here.
 FourPointX, you might actually get more discussion on your idea that affects all of DPC if you asked that it be transferred to the main forums.
And Paulbtlw's riff off Mike_311's good suggestion works for me.
too bad it's buried in Rant because it might get quite a bit of support from the community.
:( |
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05/20/2012 08:25:32 PM · #25 |
Thread moved at request of creator.
Message edited by author 2012-05-20 20:26:34. |
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