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04/12/2012 01:25:19 PM · #26 |
thank all for your nice comments, but focus point has a good point.
I'll put a link to my Facebook page. and website is one my portfolio. It just seems like i don't 'fit in' here. I may have smardaz pay to register again, but i just find it extremely hard to stay enthused. and its not just dpc. its photography in general... I'm hardly making in money with it. last year i only made 1,650. that's it. and this year, it doesn't look much better. |
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04/12/2012 02:05:47 PM · #27 |
| Sofia, if your sole reason for photography is to make money, then a) you're going to burn out very quickly, and/or b) you're being very impatient with yourself. On average it takes about 3 years before you start making money at something. Yes, some people are very lucky and/or very business savvy, but it takes a while to get established and earn money. |
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04/12/2012 02:16:52 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
Sofia, if your sole reason for photography is to make money, then a) you're going to burn out very quickly, and/or b) you're being very impatient with yourself. On average it takes about 3 years before you start making money at something. Yes, some people are very lucky and/or very business savvy, but it takes a while to get established and earn money. |
+1
If you want to improve your photography and become really great at it, don't think about money. Money will eventually come, if you continue to stick with what you love doing, especially since you are more into shooting portraits and people which means you will make some money doing that. Nothing wrong with making a few bucks on the side, but don't let that be the prime reason for your photography and do not lose interest in photography because you are not making enough money with it, do it because you love it. Focus on getting better for now and only enter challenges that truly interest you ... that would be my advise to you. |
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04/12/2012 02:44:39 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by AllenP:
Originally posted by tanguera:
Sofia, if your sole reason for photography is to make money, then a) you're going to burn out very quickly, and/or b) you're being very impatient with yourself. On average it takes about 3 years before you start making money at something. Yes, some people are very lucky and/or very business savvy, but it takes a while to get established and earn money. |
+1
If you want to improve your photography and become really great at it, don't think about money. Money will eventually come, if you continue to stick with what you love doing, especially since you are more into shooting portraits and people which means you will make some money doing that. Nothing wrong with making a few bucks on the side, but don't let that be the prime reason for your photography and do not lose interest in photography because you are not making enough money with it, do it because you love it. Focus on getting better for now and only enter challenges that truly interest you ... that would be my advise to you. |
Totally agree with Johanna and Allen here.
Sofia, some young people have gone on to quick success after spending time here at DPC. You know who they are. Take a look at what their portfolios looked like when they were your age or younger, and then honestly evaluate if you can expect to do the same at this point.
Others have suggested knocking a bunch of those self portraits off your page as a good source of motivation and it seems a good idea to me too. Why not enter challenges more frequently rather than seemingly wait around mostly for SP opportunities? If you shoot more stuff, your skills as a photographer will grow. And things learned while shooting other genres will compliment your portrait skills if those are the skills you are most concerned with.
If you need to make some money, get a job pulling espresso or similar and just have fun with the photography for now :) |
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04/12/2012 02:47:52 PM · #30 |
and that is what i'm trying to do. But it is discouraging when the only money you make is baby sitting and the occasional photography gig... Since i'm only 18, people dont believe in my skills. no one takes a chance with me. Thus, i dont get jobs. its a very frustrating cycle.
but i will take your words of advice to heart. I will. just at an irritating point in my life. (like the rest of the US that cant get a job!) |
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04/12/2012 02:54:06 PM · #31 |
Best advice I can give is never give up on things you are good at as you will only regret it at some time in your life.
There are many things you will look back on in life and wish you had kept it up as you will always wonder where it would have taken you.
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04/12/2012 02:54:28 PM · #32 |
I believe this thread's subject should be changed to "4 days left..." now!
I smell false advertisement :o\ |
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04/12/2012 03:09:27 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by ScooterMcNutty:
and that is what i'm trying to do. But it is discouraging when the only money you make is baby sitting and the occasional photography gig... Since i'm only 18, people dont believe in my skills. no one takes a chance with me. Thus, i dont get jobs. its a very frustrating cycle.
but i will take your words of advice to heart. I will. just at an irritating point in my life. (like the rest of the US that cant get a job!) |
My advice, be aggressive.
I'm a hack photography but I've sold a number of prints this year only because I made the effort to get my prints posted in a number of locations.
Local restaurants I frequent have often hung my prints for sale, my dentist office, my massage therapist, and a couple other places. I've gone to some open mic sessions at local bars and photographed them and given those images away for free to those artists. In return I've had calls about doing random events and weddings to people they know. It's not about skill, but visibility, in my opinion. You could be the best closet photography in the world, but if no one knows who you are, it isn't worth shit.
Originally posted by Jon_H:
Best advice I can give is never give up on things you are good at as you will only regret it at some time in your life.
There are many things you will look back on in life and wish you had kept it up as you will always wonder where it would have taken you. |
Completely agree with this sentiment. As someone who put everything on hold for a short while to pursue a running career, there's nothing worse I can think of than what could have been.
CS |
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04/12/2012 03:20:58 PM · #34 |
| I can't tell you whether or not to sign up for another year but from what I can see you are very talented. If you love it keep at it and eventually it will pay off. Look for ways to promote yourself and jobs will follow. Some great advice in these posts by people who have been where you are. I know the pain of looking for employment. I lost my job after 35 years with the same company. It is hard to get up every day and keep going, it is not easy but then again what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. I have found that to be so true. |
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04/13/2012 01:02:40 AM · #35 |
updated my site...
www.sofiaphotog.com |
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04/13/2012 01:55:37 AM · #36 |
| Beautiful site, Sophia. I'd add all the links to every page so that we don't have to go back to the home page to click on a different link. |
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04/13/2012 02:06:43 AM · #37 |
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04/13/2012 03:09:38 AM · #38 |
Looking at your website looks like you need to do some free work or heavily reduced rates to build your portfolio up, only having 1 wedding and it being limited in pics doesn't inspire me to hire you, I've never charged for photography but I've done 4 weddings and experience is a massive draw when selecting a professional. When I started out in the earthmoving game as a 22yr old it's hard getting ppl to trust you but when you do good work and build up your previous clients and work portfolio ppl will be more inclined to use you, I often lost money and went the extra mile to do great jobs at my expense to build my reputation.
And reputation is everything promise little but deliver lots, don't let ppl down and go the extra yard even if you think it's not worth it for what they've paid as it will pay off in the end.
Good luck |
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04/13/2012 04:34:12 AM · #39 |
I think you are a great photographer with unlimited potential, but I don't think you have enough high quality shots in your portfolio to charge $400 for an engagement session and $800 for a wedding. You essentially have one photo shoot in your couples portfolio and your wedding portfolio looks like shots you took at a wedding you were attending not photographing. The shots are good and the quality is nice, but as a customer I need to see more before I am willing to hand over that much money. I feel like you really need to consider shooting for free or at a reduced rate a few times before you can start asking those prices. There are a ton of potential models out there, so find some pretty people and ask them if you can take their picture for your portfolio. You have talent, so it would only take a couple of photo shoots for you to build a port that would separate you from your competitors. Once you do that then I think you are more likely to get paying gigs. I really don't think it has anything to do with your age.
I can understand being in a photographic funk and this site can have that affect on people. There are a lot of very successful photographers here and trying to compare yourself to them can be a little disheartening... even if you are doing it subconsciously. Not everyone can have a meteoric rise to "stardom" like Joey, so if you try to compare yourself to him then it can be discouraging... heck, it is discouraging for me and I don't even want to be a professional photographer. If you need a break from the site then take it. I have been here since 2004 and I have taken a ton of breaks over the years.
Also, there are jobs to be had in the US. It's just that most people feel like they are above the jobs that are available. I'm pretty sure fast food places are always hiring. You have to start somewhere, right? Pay your dues in the grease, earn some money, save up for new gear, and start your career.
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04/13/2012 06:07:46 AM · #40 |
I've never associated your photos with money, and I mean that as a compliment.
If earning potential is the filter through which you're viewing your interest in and commitment to photography, step away to clear your head. |
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04/13/2012 06:09:55 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by toddhead:
I think you are a great photographer with unlimited potential, but I don't think you have enough high quality shots in your portfolio to charge $400 for an engagement session and $800 for a wedding. You essentially have one photo shoot in your couples portfolio and your wedding portfolio looks like shots you took at a wedding you were attending not photographing. The shots are good and the quality is nice, but as a customer I need to see more before I am willing to hand over that much money. I feel like you really need to consider shooting for free or at a reduced rate a few times before you can start asking those prices. There are a ton of potential models out there, so find some pretty people and ask them if you can take their picture for your portfolio. You have talent, so it would only take a couple of photo shoots for you to build a port that would separate you from your competitors. Once you do that then I think you are more likely to get paying gigs. I really don't think it has anything to do with your age.
I can understand being in a photographic funk and this site can have that affect on people. There are a lot of very successful photographers here and trying to compare yourself to them can be a little disheartening... even if you are doing it subconsciously. Not everyone can have a meteoric rise to "stardom" like Joey, so if you try to compare yourself to him then it can be discouraging... heck, it is discouraging for me and I don't even want to be a professional photographer. If you need a break from the site then take it. I have been here since 2004 and I have taken a ton of breaks over the years.
Also, there are jobs to be had in the US. It's just that most people feel like they are above the jobs that are available. I'm pretty sure fast food places are always hiring. You have to start somewhere, right? Pay your dues in the grease, earn some money, save up for new gear, and start your career. |
wow, quite the pep talk there, I don't know if I want to change the world or slash my wrists. I don't know what you think a good price for a wedding is but $800 is a bargain imo. Especially when they are getting a cd instead of paying her for prints plus the editing that goes into it. |
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04/13/2012 06:27:37 AM · #42 |
| That's the thing though she's kinda stuck in that limbo of being cheap but not having the experience, so ppl are weary of her because she is too cheap they think she's not good enough yet hasn't got the portfolio to show off with, no one likes working for free but sometimes you've got to take a loss leader to get the work, being like 18-19 she must have lots of friends get them modelling and fill up her site with that, then try to get a few more weddings under her belt for free or $400 say or get a job assisting an established wedding photographer maybe |
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04/13/2012 06:46:46 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
wow, quite the pep talk there, I don't know if I want to change the world or slash my wrists. |
The objective view is one of a person that has announced to an amateur photography site that they're giving up photography because they've only made $1,600 off photography last year, unless the community can talk them off the proverbial ledge.
Pep talks happen when you start a thread asking for pep talks. |
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04/13/2012 07:26:58 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by bohemka:
Originally posted by smardaz:
wow, quite the pep talk there, I don't know if I want to change the world or slash my wrists. |
The objective view is one of a person that has announced to an amateur photography site that they're giving up photography because they've only made $1,600 off photography last year, unless the community can talk them off the proverbial ledge.
Pep talks happen when you start a thread asking for pep talks. |
its hard to read tone into a typed message, i can be forgiven when i feel like someone is coming at one of my girls too hard can't i? :) |
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04/13/2012 08:26:50 AM · #45 |
you say you are having trouble getting jobs and after looking at your site i can see why. im not a pro, so my advice comes from my impression to hire you and from someone who has hired a photographer and gotten bad results, i hope my advice helps you out.
based on only seeing your site my overall impression is that i wouldn't be able to know or trust what i would get from you.
your couples photos are great, however the processing style is the same in all and if your potential customers dont like that particular style (i dont) it will be off putting. leave some images with little processing, you have so many, one or two are ok, but not all of them, show me what i expect to get as i dont want all my images in the same artsy style.
the kids and seniors is better, but they are completely different styles and again nearly all are processed in some artsy style.
Your wedding photos dont scream professional quality. i would never hire you based on this set (sorry to be brunt). they appear to be taken at a distance and have a very photo journalistic feel to them, they dont capture any emotion, only the event and i my guess is you weren't hired to do this wedding otherwise you should have had way better access to the bride and groom. also, you really can not have an image in your portfolio where someone is in the frame with a video camera.
when i look back on my memories i want to remember how i felt that day and the photos need to help me do that, and i need to be able to trust that a photographer is going to be able to give me that, your website needs draw me in to inquire, instead it puts me off.
the site layout is clean and beautiful, the content just needs to be improved.
lastly in the "about me" section. put a picture of YOU, not one of your images of yourself, a picture where someone can connect with who you are before they contact you.
we have all seen the talent you have, this website only shows glimpses.
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04/13/2012 08:55:49 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by bohemka:
Originally posted by smardaz:
wow, quite the pep talk there, I don't know if I want to change the world or slash my wrists. |
The objective view is one of a person that has announced to an amateur photography site that they're giving up photography because they've only made $1,600 off photography last year, unless the community can talk them off the proverbial ledge.
Pep talks happen when you start a thread asking for pep talks. |
its hard to read tone into a typed message, i can be forgiven when i feel like someone is coming at one of my girls too hard can't i? :) |
I guess I wasn't really trying to give a pep talk. I was giving advice on starting her business. This is nothing personal against Sofia. This is me being honest. I've started a couple of my own successful businesses making custom coins and when I first started I essentially made the orders at cost. Why? Because I wanted to make sure I had the process down, build my portfolio of sample coins, and get the word out. When we started making NASCAR coins we made hundreds of free coins for Jeff Gordon and Richard Petty. Why? Because they gave them out like mad to fans and other drivers which helped spread the word. I know what needs to be done to get a business started and it isn't initially overvaluing your work. It is about mastering your trade/style and getting your name out there which you can't do if you don't have any customers.
I was honestly just trying to help. I apologize if it came across as rough.
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04/13/2012 09:12:54 AM · #47 |
Sofi is a very young woman who is trying her best to get business but most, she LOVES photography. Her future might not be weddings, but could be fashion, she will find out sooner or later. I think giving break could help her, and also the comments here, to find out what road would she take. I think, and strongly believe that, she will be a photographer much better than anyone I know when she hits the 30... and making tons of money. and I do believe she might be a fashion photographer, from her photos, but never under estimate that she can also become a very successful wedding photographer as well... where money and pressure is.
... so, keep on shooting, keep rotating your portfolio photos when you get better ones... and don't worry about what you had, but think about what you can have there. Also, your smartass dad knows how to take videos, have a few documentary style videos of you taking wedding or senior or glamour photos. People love to watch a work done and how it was done... videos help.
I think you have a very good head-start ;) |
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04/13/2012 02:21:31 PM · #48 |
You know, its funny guys, the only payed jobs on my site, is the wedding and the two small children. EVERYTHING else was done for free. All the TIME, TRAVELING, EDITING, POSTING, and SHOOTING were FREE.
how is black and white, and somewhat natural looking shots artsy. where are you getting that!!! the ONLY 'artsy' shots is the one with texture. that's it. IDK how you can call the others that. they are different, but artsy is not the word to describe them.
People may complain that they aren't conventional, but guess what, i hate conventional.
And as for weddings, i was the second shooter on the wedding pictures that were posted, and the other one that i did i hated the final product. i wont put up anything that i hate.
My prices are more than fare. have you EVER done a wedding? do you know how much TIME and EFFORT and STRESS that goes into one. Maybe if you did you would know why that price is that high/low. many photographers are asking almost 2 grand and much higher for wedding photography. and what am i asking as an amateur? 800. and i have a second shooter. and i give them CD and full rights for personal use. OTHER PEOPLE DON'T DO THAT!!!
And don't you even start on the couples. both of shoots were for free. the couple enjoyed the final out come. all they had to spend was time with me. and the price is the way it is because i don't get clients often. If your complaining about the prices think about the fact that you people have a full time job, do this on the side, or you already have a portfolio built up (and you possibly did that WHILE you had another job) I DO NOT!
I will NOT sell myself short if i'm going to be doing this as a business.
A few of you i appreciate your words and i will think about them, Others need to leave this thread because all you are doing is making me extremely frustrated. Especially when you know absolutely nothing about my circumstances.
Message edited by author 2012-04-13 14:24:21. |
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04/13/2012 04:28:04 PM · #49 |
Sofia, I took a look at your site - the format is elegant and clean. However, I do have a few helpful suggestions about layout that can make it look even more professional. I used to work with layout at a parenting magazine years ago so I'd like to pass on just a few pointers of what I learned:-)
First off with the word banners
(Fashion & Conceptual for example). Nice and clean but a nice *subtle* drop shadow can make it pop a little more visually off the page.
Key Word tags/Updates via Text:
I recommend keeping them off of the same page as the photos - you want the photos to speak for you. That is the strength and you need to play up. I would drop the key word tags because it clutters the page. The Updated via Text - that can go on the contact page. Leave a Reply - I like it at the bottom, but I am on the fence with regards to it remaining at the bottom of each page or just moving it off to the contact page.
Fashion & Conceptual section: There are 4 small square photos on top and two large rectangular ones on the bottom. Layout of large and small is good - always place the smaller ones in a neat row above the larger ones. However, the 4th small one doesn't line up - the fourth drops off on a separate line and looks odd and out of place. I also think that having two of the same photo (you in the blue) lessens the visual impact of those photos - have only one shine in the spotlight. My suggestion: Place the one with the Red Scarf first (visual punch of color), then have the B&W, and finally bookend it with the one in blue with back to camera (visual punch of color blue). I think it would also flow better from a front shot color, to B&W close-up study of human form, to the back shot with color.
Weddings:
Good start but as soon as you can I would change it up so it shows a variety of different weddings you have shot so that it showcases the wedding(S) (plural) that you have worked. The strong photos showcasing your talent: the floral shot and the one at the bottom showing the bride and gentleman (I am going on the safe side because he could be the groom or the dad) walking down the isle. The others are good but a closer crop will make them better and speak stronger. The top photo with the bride and the gentleman - I'd crop it on the vertical to mimic/highlight the vertical lines of the standing couple and the gazebo podium. Plus, it brings you Up & Close and personal with the subjects - which is who you want to shine - not the backdrop. The next one that has good bones that would be strengthened by a crop is the one with the pastor and the gentleman waiting at the gazebo. Cropping it to just have a little off the the left of the pastor and just the pastor, the gent in the suit and the gent standing next to him. Keep it horizontal in crop and also crop to just below their folded hands. Again it will showcase the 'main players', bring the viewer Up & Close and personal, and crop out elements that subtract from the strength of the photo ( i.e. the gent videotaping and the other gent that is partially obscured by foliage off to the far right). Recommended layout of these three: two verticals on top and a large horizontal below.
Couples
Layout needs some balance - more is needed on top so that your potential clients can see two or three first off without having to "work" to see the body of your work. You have 8 single line photos that you have to scroll down to see. You want to 'wow' your potential clients right off the bat - making them scroll down to see your work will put many off. My recommendation: match it to the layout format that you have with Fashion & Conceptual "three square' ones on top line with two horizontal on the bottom.
The photos on the webpages should have the same layout to make it look clean, professional and unified. If you have 3 squares on top with two horizontal on bottom and the second 'page' has two vertical and one horizontal, then that pattern should repeat with 'pages' 3 and 4.
Oh, and by the way as to the price - it is a catch-22. If you lower your prices you will be viewed as cheap and not in the good way. But if you make it too high without enough body of work then some will say you are overpriced (and believe me some clients will complain about price anyway no matter what the price) . I think that your current prices are not unreasonable given what I have seen of your work here at DPC and what other photographers in the biz charge. The drawback is that your website at the moment has some areas that does not YET have that wide 'variety' of client work (by this I pointing to the weddings and couples section where you have just one wedding and one couple predominately) that will help make potential clients all the more at ease with hiring you. I think that mentioning giving your potential clients a CD and full rights for personal use is a plus on your side ....a few event photographers out my way are now doing this as the more and more clientele are asking for that (this has it's pros and cons of course).
Ack, I have written a book:-) I hope I didn't overwhelm or frustrate you with what I said. I hope that you find most of my suggestions helpful.
Message edited by author 2012-04-13 16:28:31. |
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04/13/2012 04:40:30 PM · #50 |
Your photos are great. I have a suggestion for your wedding section. Your specialty is posed portraits; they are fantastic. The next wedding you go to, offer to take some posed photos of the bride and groom (and whoever else). Add those to your wedding portfolio. Then you'll have two weddings in there and it will include those portraits that you do so well.
The rest is marketing and networking. Nobody will even see your site if you don't bring them there somehow. It's like making a beautiful business card but never handing it out. |
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