Any structural engineers or carpenters in the hous

02/17/2012 05:07:35 PM · #26

Anything you build will have to meet current local codes. What might be fine here might not pass muster where you are.

02/17/2012 05:13:48 PM · #27

I'd use PT lumber for the posts, build the remaining structure out of SPF lumber, the roof and other decorative bits out of cedar, then wrap the exposed part of the 4x4 posts in cedar for looks.

Message edited by author 2012-02-17 17:19:01.

Mike

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

02/17/2012 05:23:54 PM · #28

Originally posted by Spork99:

Anything you build will have to meet current local codes. What might be fine here might not pass muster where you are.

only if you get permits and only if you make it a permanent structure. :)

Giles

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

02/17/2012 05:24:42 PM · #29

i went for the pergola design for mine when my sister said i could have her artic spare 8x8 i built this then she backed out lol

Mike

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

02/17/2012 05:26:50 PM · #30

dont listen to me, make it a permanent structure. the wind WILL get under and WILL lift it up.

bhuge

Canon EOS-550D Rebel T2i

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

02/17/2012 05:38:18 PM · #31

Originally posted by mike_311:

dont listen to me, make it a permanent structure. the wind WILL get under and WILL lift it up.

If he listens to you and builds it out of steel the wind won't lift it up.

02/17/2012 05:45:49 PM · #32

Originally posted by mike_311:

Originally posted by Spork99:
Anything you build will have to meet current local codes. What might be fine here might not pass muster where you are.

only if you get permits and only if you make it a permanent structure. :)

Wait! That's the other thing. Usually MattO shows up and makes sure I have permits. I don't need them in this case being a freestanding structure under 100 sq feet.

I like the idea of wrapping the posts in cedar. Pressure treated wood is not very pretty and won't go well with the cumaru decking.

Nice pergola giles!

Message edited by author 2012-02-17 17:46:39.

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

02/17/2012 05:52:12 PM · #33

I don't know about where you live Doc, but in these parts, any attached structure has to be inspected and meet building code requirements.

Having worked in construction, I can assure you that 2X4 studs will never meet code here and I seriously doubt that 2X6 would either.

I may have misunderstood the comments regarding bolts, but I can assure you that a circular hole is a lot stronger that anything that is square, rectangular or oblong.

I will defer to the engineers and construction personnel, but will give you my address should you wish to include me in your will. :O)

I did find This and This which might be useful to you.

Have fun.

Ray

02/17/2012 05:57:23 PM · #34

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by mike_311:

Originally posted by Spork99:
Anything you build will have to meet current local codes. What might be fine here might not pass muster where you are.

only if you get permits and only if you make it a permanent structure. :)

Wait! That's the other thing. Usually MattO shows up and makes sure I have permits. I don't need them in this case being a freestanding structure under 100 sq feet.

I like the idea of wrapping the posts in cedar. Pressure treated wood is not very pretty and won't go well with the cumaru decking.

Nice pergola giles!

You can paint/stain the SPF structure that supports the actual roof. Since it won't be directly exposed to sun and rain, the stain will last much longer and it won't stand out as much as if you left it bare. I don't like making support structures out of cedar because I think it's kind of "crumbly" and gets expensive.

02/17/2012 06:01:03 PM · #35

I can't see the details of the roof/truss structure for a damn in the photo...can't open SmugMug at work, have to look on my phone and it's too small. I'll look when I get home.

Message edited by author 2012-02-17 18:01:22.

02/17/2012 06:13:30 PM · #36

Originally posted by Spork99:

I can't see the details of the roof/truss structure for a damn in the photo...can't open SmugMug at work, have to look on my phone and it's too small. I'll look when I get home.

It's not even the best plans. Thrown together at the back of a book and I've found errors/typos in it, but it's a launching pad. The rafters basically radiate from the center to the edges. The roof is covered simply with long slats. You could use cedar siding or fascia or whatever. I'm going to look around the lumberyard to find something that will look good without being too expensive. There is no plywood subroof and such.

Of course I could just bag it and build four posts, connected by beams like a cube and then frame a hip roof, but it struck me as having no character whatsoever and that's when I ran across this...

02/17/2012 09:37:10 PM · #37

Hmm, I talked to my dad and he seems to think the cross beams only provide racking strength instead of supporting the roof. I'm not an engineer so I can see it both ways. It does look like the weight of the roof is distributed at the four posts, but wouldn't some of the roof be pushing down on the center post which is pushing down on the crossbeams? Maybe he didn't see that detail because he was worried that a snow would collapse the roof (which would make sense if no center post was there).

02/18/2012 12:48:01 AM · #38

I talked to dad some more and understand his complaint about the roof. He points out that if you had weight in the middle of the edge of the roof it is only the strength of the end fascia board that is keeping it from bowing down. I'm thinking about going back to a traditional hip roof although it's more work (mainly because I have to do something nice with the underside of the roof).

02/18/2012 01:00:06 AM · #39

Now that I can get a decent look at it, I see how it works. It's basically two king trusses at 90deg to each other sharing a common center (king) post. The other rafters just give you something to nail the roof slats to. When loaded, the angled members of the truss will be in compression and the horizontal members in tension and the king post doesn't carry any structural load. The king post just gives you something to build around and in structures with a ceiling, supports that load by being in tension.

You'd have a stronger structure by adding diagonal members that connect a point along the rafters back to the base of the center post.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

02/18/2012 01:08:12 AM · #40

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Yes, you'd probably want some kind of support for the edge of the roof along that span if the roof was going to support much load... How heavy is your snowfall? Otherwise it might sag under its own weight over time.

I'd just add a 2x6 structural member to support the edge of the roof and cover it with a fascia board.

MattO

Nikon D4

02/18/2012 01:31:18 AM · #41

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

s and only if you make it a permanent structure. :)

Wait! That's the other thing. Usually MattO shows up and makes sure I have permits. I don't need them in this case being a freestanding structure under 100 sq feet.

I like the idea of wrapping the posts in cedar. Pressure treated wood is not very pretty and won't go well with the cumaru decking.

Nice pergola giles!

Sorry too busy running my photography business to poke jabs at you avoiding stimulating the economy by doing the work yourself and asking for help on a photography site about carpentry and engineering. Next time you start one of these threads be sure and send me a PM so I can check in and toss some right hooks and a few jabs. Maybe I'll start a thread asking if someone can help me diagnose my allergies on here, to avoid paying the Dr.'s who went to school to properly treat me. :D

Message edited by author 2012-02-18 01:31:37.

Mike

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

02/18/2012 08:00:06 AM · #42

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Wait! That's the other thing. Usually MattO shows up and makes sure I have permits. I don't need them in this case being a freestanding structure under 100 sq feet.

its not a free standing structure. you better attach it to the ground and if you do you will be attaching it to concrete bases. you need something that wont pull out of the ground when the wind gets under it. gravity WONT be able to hold it down alone.

any plans you find that don't call for you to pour concrete bases and fix the structure to them, throw them away. a strong wind will lift it off the ground, tumble it over and if you are lucky if will only break itself and not hurt anyone or other property.

i built a free standing pool deck, it didn't need to conform to all the building codes for an attached structure, but i did need to pass inspection, i didn't get permits for it, they found out, fined me, but luckily i build it to code so i didn't have to tear it down and believe me that a-hole looked for a reason for me to tear it down.

Message edited by author 2012-02-18 08:00:35.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

02/18/2012 08:21:15 AM · #43

Originally posted by mike_311:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Wait! That's the other thing. Usually MattO shows up and makes sure I have permits. I don't need them in this case being a freestanding structure under 100 sq feet.

its not a free standing structure. you better attach it to the ground and if you do you will be attaching it to concrete bases. you need something that wont pull out of the ground when the wind gets under it. gravity WONT be able to hold it down alone.

any plans you find that don't call for you to pour concrete bases and fix the structure to them, throw them away. a strong wind will lift it off the ground, tumble it over and if you are lucky if will only break itself and not hurt anyone or other property.

That's not what "free standing" means in building codes. It means "not attached to any other structure", not "without foundation". Doc's code allows him to build a small gazebo without a permit, but not to ADD a 90 sq ft bay to his existing house. The plans he showed us included concrete anchors at the 4 corners.

R.

Message edited by author 2012-02-18 08:22:01.

alexlky

02/18/2012 09:25:24 AM · #44

Could the upright poles 3.1/4" diameter strong enough for the roof weight? Extending the 20" length center roof poles will be much better against snow and strong wind (steeper roof much prettier).

I took this 3 weeks ago from a local Gazebo factory. Hope it may help you as reference and design option. The 4 poles are 5 x 5.

mpeters

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

02/18/2012 09:59:06 AM · #45

One comment on the cement anchors... rather than bury the posts in the cement where they will eventually collect water and rot(even PT material), better to use concrete anchors which hold the post above the surface of the concrete by an inch or so. This allows the water to run under the posts. If you don't like the look, then some 1x cedar trim would serve well to provide a base that hides the bracket.

Do you collect flair representing each DIY project? :)

raish

Olympus C-2500L

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

02/18/2012 10:53:22 AM · #46

2" x 6" will do it and no, it wouldn't meet most engineers' requirements. Spruce is good for steamy environments, as the cell structure doesn't absorb the steam. For the same reason, pressure treated stuff is not spruce. A hip roof is going to put most of the weight on the uprights where you want it. A hip roof wants to spread - check the diagonals, possibly reinforce them with wire...

This from the near-enough's-good-enough school of lashing it up.

02/19/2012 08:39:20 PM · #47

Whew! It has been a good weekend. I love getting out there and feeling tired and sore after accomplishing something. Tomorrow I'm going to finish putting up the jack rafters and hopefully try to get the plywood on (I always have to borrow a truck to get the plywood home). I can also put in the corner braces which should make it less wobbly at the top.

Thanks for everybody's advice! Of course I went and ignored it all! But only because I wound up going with my dad's idea rather than the wooden umbrella plan in the book. I'm glad I did because I've pondered and come up with more and more problems with doing it that way.

Here's a peak at how it's going...

RayEthier