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02/16/2012 10:23:24 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
Thanks  hahn23, I thought I looked most aspects of the website, but must have overlooked the one on voting. I've been surfing around here for about three weeks before signing up.
What if it's a good photo, in general, and bad photo in relation to the challenge at hand? Under the you should category it recommends you take this into consideration, but I don't want to be that person who crucifies the scores because of my literalness.
When I read the challenges, I like seeing what people come up with in relation to the literal interpretation of the challenge, rather than someone shoehorning in their favorite photo of the week, coming up with a caption trying to tie the two, and hoping for the best.
CS |
Decide either way or only enter and vote on free studies, challenges are challenges theyre like a brief from a client interpret them or follow them to a T it's your call. |
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02/16/2012 10:27:44 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by Giles_uk:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Giles_uk:
Looking through for me it was about 50/50 between props and found did you not think so? |
So if 50% of the people interpreted it one way, and 50% the other, does it really make either one wrong? |
No but if he's taken a literal stance on creted vs found I was wondering if he'd thought they all didn't fit, and your post in the scores thread about influencing voters, your post about keeping a open mind and do unto others seemed very much like you were steering him.....
Vote as you see fit and By the rules |
How am I steering him by telling him it's up to him to vote as he feels he should? |
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02/16/2012 10:28:39 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by Giles_uk:
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
Thanks hahn23, I thought I looked most aspects of the website, but must have overlooked the one on voting. I've been surfing around here for about three weeks before signing up.
What if it's a good photo, in general, and bad photo in relation to the challenge at hand? Under the you should category it recommends you take this into consideration, but I don't want to be that person who crucifies the scores because of my literalness.
When I read the challenges, I like seeing what people come up with in relation to the literal interpretation of the challenge, rather than someone shoehorning in their favorite photo of the week, coming up with a caption trying to tie the two, and hoping for the best.
CS |
Decide either way or only enter and vote on free studies, challenges are challenges theyre like a brief from a client interpret them or follow them to a T it's your call. |
I agree. Besides, I don't think any of us vote the exact same way. Some make look for flaws, some may intricately assess every detail, some may see if it fits the "challenge description", some may be persuaded by a title, some may just not like it, some may LOVE it, some may be trolls and are purposely giving low scores.
Word of advice:
Vote as YOU see fit, not as anyone else tells you. :)
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02/16/2012 10:35:56 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by jagar:
Also there are a number of people here that try and influence the voting by mentioning the vast number of entries that in their opinion don't meet the challenge, this happens all the time and it's usualy born out of high expectations on their own entries that are not doing as expected, it's best just to vote and participate in the current challenge thread by leaving your score ect. |
I see that happens. There's a couple threads in the forums on some recent challenges (sports action for example) and I don't care about my own scores. Being relatively new to photography, I'd rather simply get feedback first and foremost. I'd just hate for some negative repercussions because of the way I vote. I would find that petty simply because I know no one here and I'm voting based on the way I interpret the challenge.
That being said, I see there a good number of people living in/around Toronto. I'd like to pick their brains at some point.
CS |
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02/16/2012 10:36:27 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Giles_uk:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Giles_uk:
Looking through for me it was about 50/50 between props and found did you not think so? |
So if 50% of the people interpreted it one way, and 50% the other, does it really make either one wrong? |
No but if he's taken a literal stance on creted vs found I was wondering if he'd thought they all didn't fit, and your post in the scores thread about influencing voters, your post about keeping a open mind and do unto others seemed very much like you were steering him.....
Vote as you see fit and By the rules |
How am I steering him by telling him it's up to him to vote as he feels he should? |
Yes, I can see that. It shows on your profile page. Here's the thing, if you plan on becoming part of the site, entering shots and what not, then the old "do unto others" thing isn't a bad way to go. Some people are very literal. Literal can make for very boring. So follow your heart.
well first you pull him up on his low average, then you tell him if hes planning on becoming part of the community... then he should vote higher to get higher scores, then you say literal can be very boring... its hardly a neutral statement is it?
so follow you heart when voting... does a much better job :) |
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02/16/2012 10:39:51 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
Originally posted by jagar:
Also there are a number of people here that try and influence the voting by mentioning the vast number of entries that in their opinion don't meet the challenge, this happens all the time and it's usualy born out of high expectations on their own entries that are not doing as expected, it's best just to vote and participate in the current challenge thread by leaving your score ect. |
I see that happens. There's a couple threads in the forums on some recent challenges (sports action for example) and I don't care about my own scores. Being relatively new to photography, I'd rather simply get feedback first and foremost. I'd just hate for some negative repercussions because of the way I vote. I would find that petty simply because I know no one here and I'm voting based on the way I interpret the challenge.
That being said, I see there a good number of people living in/around Toronto. I'd like to pick their brains at some point.
CS |
Good luck and best wishes. (ip addresses notwithstanding) |
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02/16/2012 10:42:06 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Good luck and best wishes. (ip addresses notwithstanding) |
I don't understand the ip address comment. Am I missing something?
CS |
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02/16/2012 10:50:03 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by Giles_uk:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Giles_uk:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Giles_uk:
Looking through for me it was about 50/50 between props and found did you not think so? |
So if 50% of the people interpreted it one way, and 50% the other, does it really make either one wrong? |
No but if he's taken a literal stance on creted vs found I was wondering if he'd thought they all didn't fit, and your post in the scores thread about influencing voters, your post about keeping a open mind and do unto others seemed very much like you were steering him.....
Vote as you see fit and By the rules |
How am I steering him by telling him it's up to him to vote as he feels he should? |
Yes, I can see that. It shows on your profile page. Here's the thing, if you plan on becoming part of the site, entering shots and what not, then the old "do unto others" thing isn't a bad way to go. Some people are very literal. Literal can make for very boring. So follow your heart.
well first you pull him up on his low average, then you tell him if hes planning on becoming part of the community... then he should vote higher to get higher scores, then you say literal can be very boring... its hardly a neutral statement is it?
so follow you heart when voting... does a much better job :) |
Whatever. I've been here quite a long time. The trends come and go. The newbies are newbies. Most start out voting very harshly then change their ways once they've been on the receiving end. Sorry. I didn't mean to give advice that seems to go against what you believe in. I'm done. |
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02/16/2012 11:00:29 AM · #34 |
I can see how most newbies may give low scores in the beginning, that is, until they receive a low score themselves.
I have been here almost a year, I'm guessing... but when I vote (which I've recently started doing), I do it based on my opinions. When I start entering in challenges, I will have to understand, some people may not understand my photo, some may think it DNMC, some may be trolls, some may see flaws, etc.
I do get that point you were making.
We all convey things to others differently, and being that this is a chat forum, and all someone can see is text, it's difficult to decipher the meaning/message sometimes.
Though I do have to say, I like watching a debate as well. :)
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02/16/2012 11:35:22 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
I'm new to the site, signed up yesterday, but I'm killing the scores on many of these photos. When I read create one or more letters using any props you like and photograph your creation I assume one needs to do exactly that. Photos of non-prop letters have been eliciting extremely negative scores on my part.
The question I have being new to the site, should I take the descriptions so literal?
CS |
I like this guy already... |
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02/16/2012 12:54:25 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
I'd just hate for some negative repercussions because of the way I vote. I would find that petty simply because I know no one here and I'm voting based on the way I interpret the challenge. |
1. Voting is anonymous, so unless you put your vote into the comment box the photographer will not know how you voted.
2. The most important "rule" about voting is that you must vote on all of the photos using consistent criteria, and to not adjust your vote if you happen to know who took the picture.
3. In addition to the intruction to "take the challenge topic into consideration" when voting, there's an additional instruction to "be open to alternative interpretations" of the topic -- just because you may not "get" how a picture meets the challenge doesn't mean that there may not be a perfectly valid connection of which you're just not aware.** In the past, I've challenged people to show me pictures they thought did not meet the challenge and I'd try to explain it -- I figure I can find a connection at least 80% of the time.
One further suggestion: many people hope to become better by getting feedback on their pictures, but it's be pretty clearly shown that you will gain more in the way of photographic education from the comments you make -- being able to articulate what you like/don't like about a photo will help you take those same factors into consideration when you go to shoot something yourself. Perhaps consider leaving some comments without voting at all ...
** See the notes and comments on this Brown Ribbon (last place) photo from the Dr. Seuss challenge for an example ... 
Message edited by author 2012-02-16 12:55:32. |
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02/16/2012 01:20:16 PM · #37 |
| GeneralE, thanks for posting that awesome chilling photo |
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02/16/2012 02:04:44 PM · #38 |
deleted
Message edited by author 2012-02-16 14:06:02. |
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02/16/2012 02:05:27 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
2. The most important "rule" about voting is that you must vote on all of the photos using consistent criteria, and to not adjust your vote if you happen to know who took the picture. |
This was always the plan.
Originally posted by GeneralE:
3. In addition to the intruction to "take the challenge topic into consideration" when voting, there's an additional instruction to "be open to alternative interpretations" of the topic -- just because you may not "get" how a picture meets the challenge doesn't mean that there may not be a perfectly valid connection of which you're just not aware.** In the past, I've challenged people to show me pictures they thought did not meet the challenge and I'd try to explain it -- I figure I can find a connection at least 80% of the time. |
This is the first challenge I've chosen to vote in. The description of the challenge was using props to create letters. Now I understand, through this discussion, others are more open to interpretation while some stand firm.
Just wanted to make sure there wasn't some unwritten understanding about the liberal or literal interpretations of the description in the challenges. My take away from this is simply anything goes on voting, as long as you do it consistently across all photos without discrimination.
I was just finding it hard to vote on some pictures, or giving a low vote, because it simply seemed someone would submit their best photo of during that challenge period and force a connection. I'd be like taking an amazing picture of a car for the music challenge and expecting the viewer to know good music was playing from the radio of the pictured car. Sure you can draw a connection between the two, but it's tenuous at best.
Originally posted by GeneralE:
** See the notes and comments on this Brown Ribbon (last place) photo from the Dr. Seuss challenge for an example ... |
The tie between the challenge and the picture is obviously there, but the original photo with the original caption were simply too clever or obscure for the average viewer to make the connection initially. The onus, in my opinion, shouldn't be on the viewer for determining the merit of the photo related to the category, but on the photographer for delivering a tight package with obvious connections.
Message edited by author 2012-02-16 15:17:32. |
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02/16/2012 02:14:53 PM · #40 |
My initial question is answered, and that's all I was hoping for.
There are no unwritten rules except scratching each others backs. Sorry  Kelli, had to throw that one in.
I'll just be consistent, try to have an open mind (I'm a literal person, so this one might be difficult), don't take anything personally, and have fun.
CS |
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02/16/2012 03:04:49 PM · #41 |
| Egregious violation of voting rules! I don't think the mention of a very specific image in the AZ contest is a "cosmic" accident. |
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02/16/2012 03:16:17 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Egregious violation of voting rules! I don't think the mention of a very specific image in the AZ contest is a "cosmic" accident. |
You're right, fourth from the bottom in the may not category. I'll edit earlier my post.
CS
Message edited by author 2012-02-16 15:18:26. |
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02/16/2012 03:18:07 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
Originally posted by hahn23:
Egregious violation of voting rules! I don't think the mention of a very specific image in the AZ contest is a "cosmic" accident. |
You're right, fourth from the bottom in the may not category. I'll edit earlier my post. I'm starting to dislike the insinuation you're presenting though.
CS |
Golly, I wasn't trying to be as opaque as an insinuation. Good start here, btw. (tic) |
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02/16/2012 04:11:51 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
Originally posted by hahn23:
Egregious violation of voting rules! I don't think the mention of a very specific image in the AZ contest is a "cosmic" accident. |
You're right, fourth from the bottom in the may not category. I'll edit earlier my post. I'm starting to dislike the insinuation you're presenting though.
CS |
Golly, I wasn't trying to be as opaque as an insinuation. Good start here, btw. (tic) |
Perhaps he hasn't learned all the rules yet. After the voting... I'll comment on* that* particular image in this thread. For those who are aware of the image being spoken of.
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02/16/2012 04:30:09 PM · #45 |
I edited immediately after reading hahn23 post.
I wish I had read the discussion in the a.b.c.p.o.s.t. (DPChallenge->CurrentChallenge) prior to posting here. It's the exact same discussion. Would have saved a lot of typing. I see this is a never ending debate.
Sorry, I can't post URLs since I'm new so you'll have to live with my arrow art instead.
CS |
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02/16/2012 04:39:00 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
I edited immediately after reading hahn23 post.
I wish I had read the discussion in the a.b.c.p.o.s.t. (DPChallenge->CurrentChallenge) prior to posting here. It's the exact same discussion. Would have saved a lot of typing. I see this is a never ending debate.
Sorry, I can't post URLs since I'm new so you'll have to live with my arrow art instead.
CS |
I am entirely OK with cutting you some slack, n00b.
8-) |
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02/16/2012 06:15:53 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by deeby:
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
I edited immediately after reading hahn23 post.
I wish I had read the discussion in the a.b.c.p.o.s.t. (DPChallenge->CurrentChallenge) prior to posting here. It's the exact same discussion. Would have saved a lot of typing. I see this is a never ending debate.
Sorry, I can't post URLs since I'm new so you'll have to live with my arrow art instead.
CS |
I am entirely OK with cutting you some slack, n00b.
8-) |
Agreed. We all make mistakes. I almost entered my first challenge with an illegal step. THAT WOULDA SUCKED! Live and learn.
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02/16/2012 07:58:42 PM · #48 |
you all see now why i asked this question in the first place, before the challenge deadline. i took it to be distinct and different from the previous Accidental Letters challenge, and planned my entry accordingly. obviously other people went a different way.
i think the dialog has been good, but how much better if it occurred BEFORE the deadline so there are no complaints and no regrets like, "hey, i didn't interpret it as _______"
no one would be skirting close to transgressing the "no discussion about a specific entry during voting" rule, because nothing would be an entry yet ;-)
-mefnj |
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02/17/2012 10:49:35 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by dyridings:
Originally posted by deeby:
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
I edited immediately after reading hahn23 post.
I wish I had read the discussion in the a.b.c.p.o.s.t. (DPChallenge->CurrentChallenge) prior to posting here. It's the exact same discussion. Would have saved a lot of typing. I see this is a never ending debate.
Sorry, I can't post URLs since I'm new so you'll have to live with my arrow art instead.
CS |
I am entirely OK with cutting you some slack, n00b.
8-) |
Agreed. We all make mistakes. I almost entered my first challenge with an illegal step. THAT WOULDA SUCKED! Live and learn. |
Okay. Cut the new member some slack. Forgive the new member mistakes. And, forget the early missteps. The person now has the opportunity to demonstrate good citizenship.
We'll see how this works out. I hope for the best for the member.
eta:  cosmicassassin Forgive him for the choice of username, too.
Message edited by author 2012-02-17 10:56:57. |
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02/17/2012 11:18:21 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Okay. Cut the new member some slack. Forgive the new member mistakes. And, forget the early missteps. The person now has the opportunity to demonstrate good citizenship.
We'll see how this works out. I hope for the best for the member.
eta: cosmicassassin Forgive him for the choice of username, too. |
Normally I choose Venser over anything else. I didn't want a moniker with a number in it. Back in the day I only used cosmicassassin, savagesquirrel, and electriceyebeamabduction, because shockingly, no one ever picks those monikers. Only recently have I been trying to convert everything over to Venser because it's cleaner.
CS
Message edited by author 2012-02-17 14:03:47. |
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