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11/20/2011 09:46:37 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by Fiora:
Click Here
Just stumbled over this video which shows the two or three minutes leading up to the attack.
Very interesting, and even more mortifying in my opinion, since it shows that the police officers were not being threatened at all. For two minutes preceding the attack the students plead with the officers "Don't shoot students" |
They pepper-sprayed the students (I think) for blocking the walkway. Looking at the video, it sure looks like the police did just as much walkway-blocking as the students did.
These videos get me very upset. |
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11/21/2011 01:14:53 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
I am so very sorry to see this happen. I wish I knew what to do to make sure it never happens again.
Ideas? |
Hmmm, it's a longshot, but I think if they had moved when the police ordered them to....... |
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11/21/2011 01:27:45 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by geinafets:
They pepper-sprayed the students (I think) for blocking the walkway. Looking at the video, it sure looks like the police did just as much walkway-blocking as the students did.
These videos get me very upset. |
Yeah... That feeling threatened is just plain crap - I don't know how they can say that with a straight face and it's got to the point they don't care what crap they put out as an excuse.... Unfortunately I am sure the police in this instance believe they are right.... The cop steps over them a few times before starting the spray and with the students all but surrounded with what are effectively shock troops, it's a pathetic excuse.
I agree with spork... The police training is now military training and this is a very bad thing when linked with the general types that take on that role. The world need some common sense...... |
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11/21/2011 01:30:35 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by sfalice:
I am so very sorry to see this happen. I wish I knew what to do to make sure it never happens again.
Ideas? |
Hmmm, it's a longshot, but I think if they had moved when the police ordered them to....... |
Quite right. A nation of servile cowards, unwilling, and unable, to protest or stand up against any wrong doing. It's what America is all about! Bring on the police state!! |
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11/21/2011 02:08:12 AM · #30 |
Tahrir square was efficiently cleared. The police asked them to leave, those who remained after the warning were fired upon, some were killed. and the tents were set on fire. It is a very efficient method of dealing with Ghandian style passive resistant protest.
Are we really at the point in our country when we are ready to accept any and all methods of dealing with protesters who defy an order to disperse? |
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11/21/2011 03:53:38 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Tahrir square was efficiently cleared. The police asked them to leave, those who remained after the warning were fired upon, some were killed. and the tents were set on fire. It is a very efficient method of dealing with Ghandian style passive resistant protest.
Are we really at the point in our country when we are ready to accept any and all methods of dealing with protesters who defy an order to disperse? |
Freedom and liberty is at stake. Where's the Tea Party? Where's the conservatives? Shouldn't they be the first to support the rights of the OWS to protest even if they didn't agree with their views? Talk about hypocrisy.
Message edited by author 2011-11-21 03:54:18. |
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11/21/2011 04:57:29 AM · #32 |
Very good article by Glenn Greewald here...
'Despite all the rights of free speech and assembly flamboyantly guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution, the reality is that punishing the exercise of those rights with police force and state violence has been the reflexive response in America for quite some time. As Franke-Ruta put it, âAmerica has a very long history of protests that meet with excessive or violent response, most vividly recorded in the second half of the 20th century.â Digby yesterday recounted a similar though even worse incident aimed at environmental protesters.
The intent and effect of such abuse is that it renders those guaranteed freedoms meaningless. If a population becomes bullied or intimidated out of exercising rights offered on paper, those rights effectively cease to exist. Every time the citizenry watches peaceful protesters getting pepper-sprayed â or hears that an Occupy protester suffered brain damage and almost died after being shot in the skull with a rubber bullet â many become increasingly fearful of participating in this citizen movement, and also become fearful in general of exercising their rights in a way that is bothersome or threatening to those in power. Thatâs a natural response, and itâs exactly what the climate of fear imposed by all abusive police state actions is intended to achieve: to coerce citizens to âdecideâ on their own to be passive and compliant â to refrain from exercising their rights â out of fear of what will happen if they donât.
The genius of this approach is how insidious its effects are: because the rights continue to be offered on paper, the citizenry continues to believe it is free. They believe that they are free to do everything they choose to do, because they have been âpersuadedâ â through fear and intimidation â to passively accept the status quo. As Rosa Luxemburg so perfectly put it: âThose who do not move, do not notice their chains.â
Message edited by author 2011-11-21 05:00:05. |
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11/21/2011 05:40:00 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by sfalice:
I am so very sorry to see this happen. I wish I knew what to do to make sure it never happens again.
Ideas? |
Hmmm, it's a longshot, but I think if they had moved when the police ordered them to....... |
Students at the University of California, Davis, are for the most part, aggies and veterinarian students. They mostly come from our farms and small towns. Likely their experience has been in 4-H clubs and the Future Farmers of America. Their experience with authority? Probably the County Fairs, working in the cow barns, or showing off their chickens or goats. They know how to deal with judges and officials. They know how to be polite and ask nicely. Somehow I feel they - like the rest of California - have asked nicely, more than once, to please don't raise our tuition again!
The tuition in our college system has risen sharply over the past 10-11 years. The clueless Board of Regents has (for example) given raises to top administrators over citizen protest and added fees and tuition hikes again and again. The legislature, only a few miles away in Sacramento, continues to look for solutions by drawing party lines even tighter.
Is it any wonder these kids decided to stage a non-violent protest on their own campus? They blocked a road? It's a big campus, someone needing to get from Point A to Point B could probably go around!
It is telling that the only epithet these kids could be heard hurling at their tormenters was:
"Shame...On...You!"
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11/21/2011 08:14:56 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by sfalice:
I am so very sorry to see this happen. I wish I knew what to do to make sure it never happens again.
Ideas? |
Hmmm, it's a longshot, but I think if they had moved when the police ordered them to....... |
University officials could also decide they're not going to call in the police if they know (and they know it now) that the police are going to assault people without any justification. |
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11/21/2011 09:09:27 AM · #35 |
| By the way, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the police involved in this incident were university police, which appears to be more like a military unit. This is insanity, especially in a time when the university is broke. When I was in school, we had university security guards who were unarmed. So the first thing the students might want to demand is to disband the campus police altogether and use the funds previously dedicated to equipping them with riot gear and chemical weapons for something more productive, like offsetting the cost of tuition. |
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11/21/2011 09:40:24 AM · #36 |
Like many police departments, even in small towns, it seems the UC Davis police have become more of a paramilitary response team than a police force. Every situation is treated as a physical threat to "officer safety" and is met with escalating force. The force is later justified in the name of "officer safety" even when that's hardly the case. As it was with a bunch of unarmed passive student protestors.
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11/21/2011 10:09:09 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
By the way, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the police involved in this incident were university police, which appears to be more like a military unit. This is insanity, especially in a time when the university is broke. When I was in school, we had university security guards who were unarmed. So the first thing the students might want to demand is to disband the campus police altogether and use the funds previously dedicated to equipping them with riot gear and chemical weapons for something more productive, like offsetting the cost of tuition. |
and when they get rid of the campus police who is going to be liable when someone gets mugged or raped on campus. i'm sure they hate campus police now but when someone is getting raped they are yelling for them to come help. i think they need retrained and their weapons taken away. |
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11/21/2011 10:23:09 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by o2bskating:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
By the way, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the police involved in this incident were university police, which appears to be more like a military unit. This is insanity, especially in a time when the university is broke. When I was in school, we had university security guards who were unarmed. So the first thing the students might want to demand is to disband the campus police altogether and use the funds previously dedicated to equipping them with riot gear and chemical weapons for something more productive, like offsetting the cost of tuition. |
and when they get rid of the campus police who is going to be liable when someone gets mugged or raped on campus. i'm sure they hate campus police now but when someone is getting raped they are yelling for them to come help. i think they need retrained and their weapons taken away. |
Yes, these were indeed Campus Cops.
Campus cops in riot gear - ready to quell protest?
Perhaps a change in University policy is overdue.
Of course, I always thought campus cops were there to protect the kids against such things as muggings or rapes.
Keep the campus cops, but teach (reteach?) them
how to deal with non-violent kids in a non-violent manner, maybe? |
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11/21/2011 11:05:11 AM · #39 |
Being a college student at a school in which the security guards don't do enough, I can sort of see how people would turn and say that they weren't doing enough as soon as someone got mugged or something was stolen from a car.
Our school had a bad issue last year with some students breaking windows of cars just about every night and the security guards were either sleeping in their cars in the front of the school or talking on the phone in their car in the front of the school.
I know a LOT of students who got together to get the security guards to actually do their jobs. Since then there hasn't been a problem with car break ins.
---------------------------------------------
Now, I don't know what is going on at that school. I don't mean to come across as a person who has come from experience because I'm not. I don't know what exactly happened at the school that day. I don't even know why they were being forced to leave (I didn't read this whole thread so I'm sorry if it was said before).
I would like to know though if it was unlawful that the students were there, then as a "peaceful" protester, you would think that they would abide by the laws. But again, I don't even know if it was unlawful. Lol.
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11/21/2011 11:23:23 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
I would like to know though if it was unlawful that the students were there, then as a "peaceful" protester, you would think that they would abide by the laws. |
Laws and by-laws can be interpreted and applied as the enforcers see fit.
In this case, the police were claiming they 'felt threatened' - A pretty ambiguous statement that more-or-less gives them the right to go around pepper-spraying anyone they feel threatened by.
And as for 'peaceful protestors'? - The only place you're likely to be able to protest peacefully without getting up someone's nose is in your own living room. Anywhere else, then you'll likely be an irritation to someone, and the police get called in, a by-law invoked, and out comes the pepper spray. |
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11/21/2011 12:07:59 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by JH:
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
I would like to know though if it was unlawful that the students were there, then as a "peaceful" protester, you would think that they would abide by the laws. |
Laws and by-laws can be interpreted and applied as the enforcers see fit.
In this case, the police were claiming they 'felt threatened' - A pretty ambiguous statement that more-or-less gives them the right to go around pepper-spraying anyone they feel threatened by.
And as for 'peaceful protestors'? - The only place you're likely to be able to protest peacefully without getting up someone's nose is in your own living room. Anywhere else, then you'll likely be an irritation to someone, and the police get called in, a by-law invoked, and out comes the pepper spray. |
The police seem to be hiding behind the "we felt threatened" excuse because it's easy. They've also been trained to perceive almost any action as a "threat to officer safety" and to respond with force and increasing the level of force used until the "threat is removed". |
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11/21/2011 12:31:00 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
Is it any wonder these kids decided to stage a non-violent protest on their own campus? They blocked a road? It's a big campus, someone needing to get from Point A to Point B could probably go around! |
Haha, it wasn't even a road. It was a sidewalk that cut through a grassy hangout area on campus.
Just as a tiny correction though, Davis isn't nearly as agricultural anymore as you make it seem. That is a thing of the past. We are just as environmentally friendly and conscientious as you say, but only about 18% of the student population are actually in agricultural majors. |
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11/21/2011 12:35:31 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Like many police departments, even in small towns, it seems the UC Davis police have become more of a paramilitary response team than a police force. Every situation is treated as a physical threat to "officer safety" and is met with escalating force. The force is later justified in the name of "officer safety" even when that's hardly the case. As it was with a bunch of unarmed passive student protestors. |
The crazy thing is that Davis police are the most easygoing police I have ever seen. Davis is a sleepy town where usually not much happens besides bike thefts and traffic violations. Just a few months ago, they had to implement a traffic school program for bikes, which would give students a way to reduce their fee for bike violations, and one of the main reasons they listed was so that "police wouldn't feel bad for giving college students biking tickets" (which are in the 200-300 dollar range)
So this is a million times more shocking for us. If this can happen with OUR police force, then it can truly happen ANYWHERE at all. |
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11/21/2011 01:10:45 PM · #44 |
Something else I want to know is this...
It seemed as if every single copper was backing each other up (in the videos). If it was so bad of an action then why didn't at least one cop stand up for the protesters?
Similar to the random white person(s) in the old days with the equal rights protests. You always have SOMEONE... Yet this time.. Nothing?
I would like to know what the cops think. |
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11/21/2011 01:19:37 PM · #45 |
Pepper spray through art.
I'd seen a few of these memes, including this one, last night when i posted here about the image becoming iconic. It's precisely the sort of image that will become just that. Easily graffiti-stenciled. |
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11/21/2011 01:42:42 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
Something else I want to know is this...
It seemed as if every single copper was backing each other up (in the videos). If it was so bad of an action then why didn't at least one cop stand up for the protesters?
Similar to the random white person(s) in the old days with the equal rights protests. You always have SOMEONE... Yet this time.. Nothing?
I would like to know what the cops think. |
You don't know much about police, do you?
No police officer is going to go against a fellow officer. Certainly not in public. To do so would be to breach a trust between officers. |
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11/21/2011 01:44:51 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
Being a college student at a school..snip...I would like to know though if it was unlawful that the students were there, then as a "peaceful" protester, you would think that they would abide by the laws. But again, I don't even know if it was unlawful. Lol. |
This is called "Civil disobedience". A method of protest invented by an Indian lawyer called Mohandas Gandhi. It uses passive protest to create a problem for civil authority. You break a law, but you do so without violence. You should read up on it.
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
If it was so bad of an action then why didn't at least one cop stand up for the protesters? |
Basic psychology. Make the same question about Nazi death camps or Sadam's torture chambers, of Abu Ghraib. Lack of dissent among the attacking force is no moral barometer. Stress brings a group together, and tends to choke off rational thought. Read up on the Stanford Prison Experiment. |
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11/21/2011 01:45:04 PM · #48 |
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11/21/2011 01:47:23 PM · #49 |
| Do you really see race as being that determinant? |
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11/21/2011 01:49:34 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Do you really see race as being that determinant? |
It was just an example to show that there are always people who stick up for the other side.
Like I said, I don't know much about this whole ordeal but it seems to me that if so many people are going on and on about how bad the cops are then you would think that a cop or two would say, "you know what? I think these people are right... I am sticking up for them." |
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