Pepper Spraying Peaceful Protestors at UC Davis

11/20/2011 01:21:24 PM · #1

Just in case you haven't seen it on the news, this is what has been going on in Davis right now:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjnR7xET7Uo

And this was UC Davis's response:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=8775ZmNGFY8
(That is over 1000 students sitting in silence during the walk of shame of chancellor Katehi, who most of the student body blames for the attack for sending in the riot police.)

Lets just say that my job being a photographer for the Davis newspaper is a ton more interesting than it was before. Unfortunately, I was never taking pictures of the protest when the real stuff went down, but most of me is kind of glad at that, since my colleagues reports being shoved around with batons while trying to document the event.
Things are going crazy over here. Absolutely insane.

NiallOTuama

Google Pixel 2

11/20/2011 01:24:35 PM · #2

What were they protesting about?

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

11/20/2011 01:32:09 PM · #3

Originally posted by NiallOTuama:

What were they protesting about?

The students are protesting fee increases.
Since 2008, our tuition has gone up by 100% and the Regents are now proposing to raise tuition by an additional 84% (they were supposed to vote on it this last Wednesday but the meeting was postponed due to the protests that were going to convene around them).
Since 2000, the tuition has increased by a total of 300%

It is also linked with the Occupy Wallstreet movement, but is mostly centered around the state of education in California right now.
This particular protest (in which the pepper spraying occurred) ironically was also protesting police brutality that occurred in UC Berkeley.

Message edited by author 2011-11-20 13:33:44.

Giles

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

11/20/2011 01:34:23 PM · #4

what would a typical tuition fee be there for a year

just raised it here to Â£9k a year but based on a pay back system with low interest that if you never make over Â£24k a year you dont pay it back

NiallOTuama

Google Pixel 2

11/20/2011 01:38:43 PM · #5

One other question before judging on this (even though the display in the video looked pretty nasty)...
Did they have permission to have the protest? A permit.
And was there anything there saying they couldn't do it?

Mike

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

11/20/2011 01:45:24 PM · #6

i love all these posts about how innocent protestors are being harass by authorities. that's not the case. when the protest start to interfere with teh public or they areent to permitted to continue to carry on is when teh trouble starts. most of thetime teh protesteor are just waiting to start trouble to get in the news.

here in philly the OWS has been relatively peaceful until a few protester thought it was a good idea to start sitting the middle of a bridge and block traffic or refuse to leave the site so construction activities could begin. the bridge in general had people who were asking to get arrested and purposely blocked traffic for that reason to instigate.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

11/20/2011 01:45:56 PM · #7

Originally posted by Giles_uk:

Approximately $13,000/yr for California residents, $36,000/yr for out-of-state...

R.

ambaker

Google Glass Google Glass

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

11/20/2011 01:53:18 PM · #8

Originally posted by NiallOTuama:

Here in the US, in theory, dissent is protected by the 1st amendment to our constitution. However, depending on whom and what you are criticizing, your freedom to do so seems to vary. What seems saddest, to me, is that some of the very people trying to shutdown the protests, are those who 50 or so years ago were in the streets themselves.

Can we give everyone what they want? No. But at least we can try to have a civil dialog. Bashing heads seldom, if ever, convinces anyone that you are correct.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

11/20/2011 01:56:03 PM · #9

Originally posted by mike_311:

These are ridiculous statements. You can't know that. Even if sometimes motivations are what you say, you can't know, on a case-by-case basis, that this is "mostly" true. In the particular case, the protest wasn't interfering with anything. And even if it WAS, you don't automatically have the right to use force against me just because, in your perception, I'm interfering with you, and neither do the police have that right.

As for "getting on the news", that';s the way it plays out in the 21st century; battles are won and lost with PR, plain and simple.

I'm curious if you can articulate exactly WHY you repeatedly stand against the rights of small & powerless people to try to band together and be heard, when the corporate state is doing its best to drown them out?

R.

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

11/20/2011 01:58:03 PM · #10

Originally posted by NiallOTuama:

Niall, there is definitely not one side completely to blame and one side completely innocent, but it is hard to piece together exactly what is the case.

Here are some facts:
-The protestors were having the protest in a section of the campus which is a free speech area and anyone can hold protests.
-They set up tents in this area and slept there over night
-Setting up tents is not allowed per campus policy
-According to protestors they had this rule waived by Katehi, and were permitted to overnight.
-Riot police came to take down the tents, called by Katehi to do so.
-Protestors sat in a circle around the tents in protest
-By the time the pepper spraying incident occurred, the tents had all already been taken down.
-According to police the pepper spraying occurred because the police officers felt threatened by the students and felt that they were separated from backup.

Clearly the protestors aren't completely innocent, and they were certainly intentionally disobeying orders to leave.
That being said, I still think that the pepper spray response was a completely unnecessary strong reaction.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

11/20/2011 02:00:21 PM · #11

Originally posted by ambaker:

What seems saddest, to me, is that some of the very people trying to shutdown the protests, are those who 50 or so years ago were in the streets themselves.

Penny and I were just talking about that last night: didn't anyone LEARN anything from the lessons of the 70's? It's dismaying to watch the same mistakes being made again, on both sides...

R.

NiallOTuama

Google Pixel 2

11/20/2011 02:03:11 PM · #12

Originally posted by Fiora:

...the police officers felt threatened by the students...

That video definitely did not suggest anything was being threatened.

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/20/2011 02:14:45 PM · #13

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by ambaker:
What seems saddest, to me, is that some of the very people trying to shutdown the protests, are those who 50 or so years ago were in the streets themselves.

Penny and I were just talking about that last night: didn't anyone LEARN anything from the lessons of the 70's? It's dismaying to watch the same mistakes being made again, on both sides...

R.

The feelings of anger and helplessness fuels actions that normally people wouldn't take. At least it was pepper spray and not a spray of bullets. I watch that video and song lyrics just run in my head... "four dead in Ohio". It's a shame that soon, only the wealthiest or the smartest will be able to afford an education. Ditch digging anyone?

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

11/20/2011 02:32:21 PM · #14

The police certainly had the right to arrest the protesters, but they did not have the right to soak them with pepper spray. The official story they gave was they they felt " surrounded and threatened, and feared for their safety". Look at the video and tell me if the official story is a lie.

Granted if I was a cop I would not look forward to the strain on my poor lower back of hauling off these kids, interlocking their arms and making moving them as hard as possible. However a use of "less than lethal force" which is the category pepper spray falls into, is an unconscionable escalation of force against a peaceful protest. There are 27 documented cases of people in police custody who died after exposure to pepper spray in California since 1993. It is a useful tool, but when used like this it is a clear misuse and will result in it being taken away from the police if this sort of misuse continues. Sure it worked, but so did shooting into the crowd in Al-Tahrir Square in central Cairo a few days ago. Escalating a peaceful protest with the use of asymmetric force from the protesters or the police will only escalate the response.

Judith Polakoff

Nikon D7000

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

11/20/2011 02:33:50 PM · #15

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

No doubt the protesters have made some mistakes. But I can tell you from my own personal experience in the '80s, when I engaged in some civil disobedience actions, that protesters engage in non-violence training and usually have a liaison with the police that provides the police with a general outline for the protest -- in other words, the protesters will sit in a circle linking arms and will expect to be arrested. So for decades now, the police know full well before going into most of these situations that the protesters will be non-violent and will be engaging in civil disobedience. Yes, civil disobedience is breaking the law, but breaking the law doesn't necessarily call for the kind of force and brutality that we have been witnessing these last several months.

And I know that these folks currently taking part in the protests have engaged in non-violence training because it's the only way that one can, first of all, not run away in fear when the police provocation begins and, secondly, not strike back violently in response to violence. The protesters have managed to react properly in the vast majority of cases that we've witnessed lately.

geinafets

Canon EOS-50D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

11/20/2011 04:30:44 PM · #16

Originally posted by mike_311:

You sound like Bloomburg now with the "protesters vs. public" nonsense. Since when do protesters stop being part of the public when they decide to exercise their rights?

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

11/20/2011 04:33:16 PM · #17

Part of the problem is the militarization of the police in both their weapons and training since 9/11. They're trained more to respond as a paramilitary group than to perform a policing function.

rooum

11/20/2011 04:54:05 PM · #18

Originally posted by Spork99:

Part of the problem is the militarization of the police in both their weapons and training since 9/11. They're trained more to respond as a paramilitary group than to perform a policing function.

Indeed. There is an interesting article on that very subject here...

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

11/20/2011 05:34:07 PM · #19

Originally posted by mike_311:

Sadly, both sides are to blame in instances like this. The police failed miserably in this one and really over-reacted to a situation that could have been dealt with in a much better fashion. The protesters could have maintained a better liaison with the various levels of authority and clearly indicated what their intent was, and how long they intended to protest.

Ray

Message edited by author 2011-11-20 17:35:03.

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

11/20/2011 07:13:20 PM · #20

Click Here

Just stumbled over this video which shows the two or three minutes leading up to the attack.
Very interesting, and even more mortifying in my opinion, since it shows that the police officers were not being threatened at all. For two minutes preceding the attack the students plead with the officers "Don't shoot students"

rooum

11/20/2011 07:22:13 PM · #21

I think that one photograph of the police officer pepper spraying the students, judging by how fast it has become a meme, may well prove iconic.

Message edited by author 2011-11-20 19:23:13.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

11/20/2011 07:33:24 PM · #22

I think it's just a matter of time before we have another Kent State.