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10/17/2011 01:35:20 PM · #26 |
| i bet reviewing teh files with a hex editor would show interference, i'll have a look see what i can find hehe put my computer science degree to some use lol |
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10/17/2011 01:54:33 PM · #27 |
Perhaps you could out-source the job to the NSA or FBI -- they have a lot of experience at this sort of thing, and it will help our trade-balance situation, while providing a distraction from reading our email ...
ETA: you could require them to send in the camera with which they purport to have taken the photo - that would allow some forensic testing, much like ballistics comparisons to match bullet with gun ... and if they've committed fraud, you don't return their camera ... ;-)
Message edited by author 2011-10-17 13:57:34. |
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10/17/2011 01:57:46 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Perhaps you could out-source the job to the NSA or FBI -- they have a lot of experience at this sort of thing, and it will help our trade-balance situation, while providing a distraction from reading our email ... |
email...god that's gotta be one booring ass job! |
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10/17/2011 02:00:31 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by o2bskating:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Perhaps you could out-source the job to the NSA or FBI -- they have a lot of experience at this sort of thing, and it will help our trade-balance situation, while providing a distraction from reading our email ... |
email...god that's gotta be one booring ass job! |
I imagine most of the process is automated ... if you use Gmail, Google "reads" it all too -- that's one way they know which ads to serve up to you. |
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10/17/2011 02:18:35 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by gyaban:
Originally posted by lupobianco:
how can you tell if the date was changed!? |
- The file itself has parameters stored by the local file system. Among them, date of creation, date of last access, date of modification, etc. If the JPG file is uploaded itself to a website, it loses these parameters. But if you ask for the person to first embed it in a archive (zip for example), then some of these parameters are stored. You could ask for JPG in ZIP, and check that. Of course, it can be faked too.
- For a better control, you could ask for RAW files only, and make it mandatory in your challenge rules (which would imply, if your camera don't do RAW, you can't enter). However (you guessed it), this can be faked too, since format specifications of most RAW files are known. Tools do exist, even if they are not user friendly (often libraries you can use in your own-developed projects).
- The best control would be to only use camera that support RAW file signature (mainly 1D and D3 systems). The private keys have been cracked, which means signatures can be faked in theory, but to my knowledge the tools (or even the keys) have not been publicly disclosed.
- Other kind of control: run the entries through search engines (Google image, TinEye) in case of a image stolen elsewhere.
That's all I'm aware off from the top of my head. As you can see, there is no perfect system. Hope this helps. |
Thank you very much for the detailed and helpful response, I guess this means we have to relay on our best judgment and accept the date given as true unless otherwise proven wrong, I also like the idea to restrict the entries to RAW making it a bit more difficult. |
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10/17/2011 02:27:57 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by snaffles:
Did you not read the posts from  Yo_Spiff and  bergiekat, saying which programs they used to figure out if dates had been altered?!
Also I do not speak Italian very well, so would you mind responding to my posts in English? |
Your post had a discrimination tone to it "I'm from Canada, you are from Jordan" and it had a lot of accusation of bad intent from my side which I did not intend. And I wrote in Italian cause I am Italian and Jordanian, nationality and race had nothing to do with my question as it was purely technical from an ethical hacking counter measures point of view not from a regulations point of view.
As for the other responses of Yo_Spiff and bergiekat they were indecisive cause they fond out that both files were altered when that is not the case!. |
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10/17/2011 02:31:20 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by lupobianco:
Originally posted by snaffles:
Did you not read the posts from Yo_Spiff and bergiekat, saying which programs they used to figure out if dates had been altered?!
Also I do not speak Italian very well, so would you mind responding to my posts in English? |
Your post had a discrimination tone to it "I'm from Canada, you are from Jordan" and it had a lot of accusation of bad intent from my side which I did not intend. And I wrote in Italian cause I am Italian and Jordanian, nationality and race had nothing to do with my question as it was purely technical from an ethical hacking counter measures point of view not from a regulations point of view.
As for the other responses of Yo_Spiff and bergiekat they were indecisive cause they fond out that both files were altered when that is not the case!. |
Nor did she (the bolded part). She was simply stating the law as it is in Canada and acknowledging that it may be different in Jordan. |
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10/17/2011 02:32:35 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by lupobianco:
Originally posted by snaffles:
Did you not read the posts from Yo_Spiff and bergiekat, saying which programs they used to figure out if dates had been altered?!
Also I do not speak Italian very well, so would you mind responding to my posts in English? |
Your post had a discrimination tone to it "I'm from Canada, you are from Jordan" and it had a lot of accusation of bad intent from my side which I did not intend. And I wrote in Italian cause I am Italian and Jordanian, nationality and race had nothing to do with my question as it was purely technical from an ethical hacking counter measures point of view not from a regulations point of view.
As for the other responses of Yo_Spiff and bergiekat they were indecisive cause they fond out that both files were altered when that is not the case!. |
And away we go!!
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10/17/2011 02:36:13 PM · #34 |
H'm, not sure why you spent energy on changing time instead of making better photos,
but one of the two photos is made tomorrow. So far, just Windows, no special software needed.
And, although the files looks the same (except for the date), they aren't.
So with some simple statistics it should be easy to say which one is the original. |
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10/17/2011 02:43:29 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by hajeka:
H'm, not sure why you spent energy on changing time instead of making better photos,
but one of the two photos is made tomorrow. So far, just Windows, no special software needed.
And, although the files looks the same (except for the date), they aren't.
So with some simple statistics it should be easy to say which one is the original. |
The further I go to the past the more my shots sucked! Why would I go back!! |
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10/17/2011 03:06:09 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by sinistral_leo:
The further I go to the past the more my shots sucked! Why would I go back!! |
For all those beautiful memories :) |
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10/17/2011 03:16:44 PM · #37 |
I remember what happened the last time someone got caught tampering with the exif data...
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10/17/2011 03:36:05 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I remember what happened the last time someone got caught tampering with the exif data...
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This would be good for the step-by step challenge/ |
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10/17/2011 03:43:56 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by blindjustice:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I remember what happened the last time someone got caught tampering with the exif data...
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This would be good for the step-by step challenge/ |
6! A 9 from me if there was a the final result! |
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10/17/2011 03:51:25 PM · #40 |
| Why are we hiding links? That's like sticking a finger in a crumbling dam. As gyaban mentioned, there are far too many ways to game the system. Heck, we can't even prove you took the photo in the first place or that you did the editing yourself. For all we know you're just an uploader. Fact of the matter is, those who cheat will cheat, with or without the censorship. |
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10/17/2011 03:58:32 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by lupobianco:
Originally posted by snaffles:
Did you not read the posts from Yo_Spiff and bergiekat, saying which programs they used to figure out if dates had been altered?!
Also I do not speak Italian very well, so would you mind responding to my posts in English? |
Your post had a discrimination tone to it "I'm from Canada, you are from Jordan" and it had a lot of accusation of bad intent from my side which I did not intend. And I wrote in Italian cause I am Italian and Jordanian, nationality and race had nothing to do with my question as it was purely technical from an ethical hacking counter measures point of view not from a regulations point of view.
As for the other responses of Yo_Spiff and bergiekat they were indecisive cause they fond out that both files were altered when that is not the case!. |
Nor did she (the bolded part). She was simply stating the law as it is in Canada and acknowledging that it may be different in Jordan. |
Thank you,  karmat. I am not being discriminatory in the slightest. So I know some of the Canadian Criminal Code, and especially areas like fraud. What's wrong with that?
As for race and nationality, I don't care about either. As for ethics...hey, read your own original post. You're the one who posted the link, wrote 'Can you tell which of the two photos above is the original untampered with? if you can't then Langdon is in trouble!!'
I bet that looks pretty hinky to others than myself.
Message edited by author 2011-10-17 16:00:23. |
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10/17/2011 04:42:13 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by lupobianco:
Originally posted by snaffles:
Frankly I would give it a good hard think before you start messing with things.
First off, what you are doing is committing fraud, plain and simple. I don't know about Jordan, but in Canada, just the intent to commit fraud is a crime. I sincerely hope that a ban from this site would be the penalty for being caught in this manner.
In which case you would not only lose your credibility here, but if potential clients are checking you out and learned that you are the OP of this thread...well, I wouldn't hire you.
So is it really worth it? |
Sono un italialono che vive in Giordania! |
@ Snaffles: Il dit qu'il est un Italien qui demeure en Jordanie.
Ray |
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10/17/2011 04:49:35 PM · #43 |
| Hahaha Ray...yeah I pretty much already figured out that he's an Italian living in Jordan :-) |
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10/17/2011 04:52:18 PM · #44 |
| No, lui ha detto che è italiano e giordano. |
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10/17/2011 04:58:48 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by sinistral_leo:
No, lui ha detto che è italiano e giordano. |
Really? ... so "Sono un italialono che vive in Giordania!" translates into what you said... I just learned something new.
Ray
Message edited by author 2011-10-17 17:19:14. |
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10/17/2011 05:10:38 PM · #46 |
| Sono un italiano di lingua donna russa che vivono nel corpo di un uomo peloso greci residenti in America. |
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10/17/2011 05:17:47 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Sono un italiano di lingua donna russa che vivono nel corpo di un uomo peloso greci residenti in America. |
I have an epilator I could lend you... :O)
Ray |
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10/17/2011 05:20:37 PM · #48 |
Seems to me y'all missed the foolproof way to game the system. Each time you take a shot, set the camera date ahead a week and take it again. 300-400 shots should cover most any challenge coming up within the users attention span. Viola! Legally dated image that no one can find a problem with. You may want to also buy a new camera each time you do this, so that another image from the camera does not show up out of sequence as an entry.
There you have it! A simple if, impractical, expensive and time consuming way to achieve the perfect cheat.
Oh, and for the OP... If you routinely submit images from the same camera, as most of us do, the out of sequence numbering could well trip you up. |
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10/17/2011 05:25:21 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Sono un italiano di lingua donna russa che vivono nel corpo di un uomo peloso greci residenti in America. |
Help: il mio traduttore di google è sempre usurati. |
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10/17/2011 06:08:14 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by sinistral_leo:
No, lui ha detto che è italiano e giordano. |
Really? ... so "Sono un italialono che vive in Giordania!" translates into what you said... I just learned something new.
Ray |
Wanna learn something else new? Try reading the whole thread before you jump to conclusions...
Originally posted by lupobianco:
Your post had a discrimination tone to it "I'm from Canada, you are from Jordan" and it had a lot of accusation of bad intent from my side which I did not intend. And I wrote in Italian cause I am Italian and Jordanian, nationality and race had nothing to do with my question as it was purely technical from an ethical hacking counter measures point of view not from a regulations point of view. |
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