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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> can the date on the original file be changed?
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 10/17/2011 11:11:19 AM · #1
I downloaded and tested a software ... and was able to change all the dates on an original JPG image file out of my Canon camera, .

Can you tell which of the two photos above is the original untampered with? if you can't then Langdon is in trouble!!

Message edited by GeneralE - Link deleted..
 10/17/2011 11:17:04 AM · #2
Hmm well yes, it would pose problems for Langdon, but I really do think that most of us have enough in terms of ethics to not alter dates. There is probably some way around it but I don't know enough about software to know what would work.

However, does it work on RAW files? A lot of members shoot RAW. I remember when my bf had to submit originals for a validation, and he had shot in both RAW and jpg. The jpg alone wasn't enough, only when he submitted the RAW too did things get cleared up.
 10/17/2011 11:21:51 AM · #3
Hey Nadir, it's not the only EXIF editor, and you can also make changes to the original jpg and then change the exif as it haven't been touched.

You can't change picture information on a RAW however, but you can certainly change the dates.

The question is that DPC is a community were a blue ribbon does not entitle you to any money or whatever.
Given that, I really think that all the work changing the dates on an original exif would be overkill for the amount of compensation.

So true, it can be cheating, but it's like going through heaven an hell just to get a pretty picture on the front page ;)

10/17/2011 11:24:31 AM · #4
When I open them in PaintShopPro and look at the image info, both of them say "yes" next to "has been modified". Are these straight out of the camera, or were they first converted from RAW?
 10/17/2011 11:25:44 AM · #5
One was done on 9/20 @ 19:54:31 and the other was done 10/18 @ 19:54:31 ;)

File info pulled out in CS5 and also in DPP for shooting date.

Message edited by author 2011-10-17 11:31:32.
 10/17/2011 11:31:11 AM · #6
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
When I open them in PaintShopPro and look at the image info, both of them say "yes" next to "has been modified". Are these straight out of the camera, or were they first converted from RAW?


Yes, one is out of the Camera and the other is a copy that was changed.
but , if this can be done then any body can claim ownership of the image!
 10/17/2011 11:31:49 AM · #7
Once I figure out how to alter the EXIF, I can start submitting my even more rubbish photos from last year... muahahahahahaaaa!
 10/17/2011 11:33:26 AM · #8
Oh, how much fun could we have...and not even have to leave the computer to enter challenges!!
Evil genius! I like your thinking, muahahaha! :P Goofball, lol...

Originally posted by JH:
Once I figure out how to alter the EXIF, I can start submitting my even more rubbish photos from last year... muahahahahahaaaa!
10/17/2011 11:35:34 AM · #9
Frankly I would give it a good hard think before you start messing with things.

First off, what you are doing is committing fraud, plain and simple. I don't know about Jordan, but in Canada, just the intent to commit fraud is a crime. I sincerely hope that a ban from this site would be the penalty for being caught in this manner.

In which case you would not only lose your credibility here, but if potential clients are checking you out and learned that you are the OP of this thread...well, I wouldn't hire you.

So is it really worth it?
 10/17/2011 11:39:10 AM · #10
I thought at times that some photos may have been taken earlier than the dates of the challenge but then I thought I am suffering of a perfectly normal paranoia. Now I am not so sure.
 10/17/2011 11:39:51 AM · #11
Nadir , just keep stum and win all the challenges with your old or even someone elses masterpieces !!
 10/17/2011 11:40:59 AM · #12
Originally posted by snaffles:
Frankly I would give it a good hard think before you start messing with things.

First off, what you are doing is committing fraud, plain and simple. I don't know about Jordan, but in Canada, just the intent to commit fraud is a crime. I sincerely hope that a ban from this site would be the penalty for being caught in this manner.

In which case you would not only lose your credibility here, but if potential clients are checking you out and learned that you are the OP of this thread...well, I wouldn't hire you.

So is it really worth it?


I learned that the software mentioned was created by a Canadian! Does that count?
 10/17/2011 11:50:10 AM · #13
Originally posted by snaffles:
Frankly I would give it a good hard think before you start messing with things.

First off, what you are doing is committing fraud, plain and simple. I don't know about Jordan, but in Canada, just the intent to commit fraud is a crime. I sincerely hope that a ban from this site would be the penalty for being caught in this manner.

In which case you would not only lose your credibility here, but if potential clients are checking you out and learned that you are the OP of this thread...well, I wouldn't hire you.

So is it really worth it?


Sono un italialono che vive in Giordania!
 10/17/2011 11:52:40 AM · #14
I can't speak for all of site council, but tampering with EXIF data for challenge entries undermines the very basic rules, premises and beliefs of this site and will not be dealt with gently, kindly, or with mercy.

Actually, I think on this I *can* speak for all of site council.

Get caught tampering EXIF on challenge entries and you won't have to worry about what to enter any more. :P
10/17/2011 12:12:29 PM · #15
This is a fun challenge site with lots of scope to learn and improve your photography and meet others.
Why would you cheat ? There is just simply no point.
 10/17/2011 12:20:25 PM · #16
Originally posted by Tiny:
Why would you cheat ? There is just simply no point.

Most of us would not, but there are some folks for whom the only objective is winning, and it does not matter how they get there.
 10/17/2011 12:26:35 PM · #17
Originally posted by lupobianco:
I downloaded and tested a software that is called [removed link] and was able to change all the dates on an original JPG image file out of my Canon camera,


I can't, but that does not mean that no one can't. If you open the files in an ASCII or Hex editor, you'll see that the files differ not only in the three dates, but in various other places as well. So if I had a file from a 5D that was clearly unaltered I might already be able to tell the difference by comparison of the bits and bytes outside the date information, using something as simple as an Hex editor.

You would have to know exactly what to change and what not to change for the fake to get through - and I expect the validation guys to have quite some experience and a lot of samples of what an original file looks like. Digital forensics can be quite sophisticated.

So I think the time is better invested in working on photography skills :-)

Message edited by karmat - removed link.
 10/17/2011 12:32:20 PM · #18
Why would you want to do this when it's so much fun to shoot for the challenge:)
 10/17/2011 12:41:52 PM · #19
Originally posted by snaffles:
Frankly I would give it a good hard think before you start messing with things.

First off, what you are doing is committing fraud, plain and simple. I don't know about Jordan, but in Canada, just the intent to commit fraud is a crime. I sincerely hope that a ban from this site would be the penalty for being caught in this manner.

Indeed -- altering EXIF data is (one of the only) grounds for a permamnent ban from this site.

For that matter, I'm not sure why we should tolerate explaining to the public how to do so ... :-(
 10/17/2011 12:43:25 PM · #20
I thought you'd have killed the thread by now tbh
 10/17/2011 12:46:49 PM · #21
Originally posted by JH:
I thought you'd have killed the thread by now tbh

I've removed the link -- the rest of the discussion may serve as an alert to anyone else harboring nefarious ideas ...
 10/17/2011 12:49:02 PM · #22
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by JH:
I thought you'd have killed the thread by now tbh

I've removed the link -- the rest of the discussion may serve as an alert to anyone else harboring nefarious ideas ...

Missed one - post #17
 10/17/2011 12:59:11 PM · #23
Originally posted by JH:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by JH:
I thought you'd have killed the thread by now tbh

I've removed the link -- the rest of the discussion may serve as an alert to anyone else harboring nefarious ideas ...

Missed one - post #17


I agree with all the ethical talk that you have said and the punishments suggested, the reasone for my inquiry is purely technical as I am the Vice President of the Jordan Photographic Society and we hold many competitions were the compensation is not just a ribbon but also money is involved and we have to answer back to the sponsors, today while researching for ways to validate the image date I fond out that the dates can be easily changed and this is honestly something not to be taken lightly, so my question remains the same; how can you tell if the date was changed!?
 10/17/2011 01:13:21 PM · #24
Did you not read the posts from Yo_Spiff and bergiekat, saying which programs they used to figure out if dates had been altered?!

Also I do not speak Italian very well, so would you mind responding to my posts in English?

Message edited by author 2011-10-17 13:18:57.
 10/17/2011 01:15:34 PM · #25
Originally posted by lupobianco:
how can you tell if the date was changed!?


- The file itself has parameters stored by the local file system. Among them, date of creation, date of last access, date of modification, etc. If the JPG file is uploaded itself to a website, it loses these parameters. But if you ask for the person to first embed it in a archive (zip for example), then some of these parameters are stored. You could ask for JPG in ZIP, and check that. Of course, it can be faked too.

- For a better control, you could ask for RAW files only, and make it mandatory in your challenge rules (which would imply, if your camera don't do RAW, you can't enter). However (you guessed it), this can be faked too, since format specifications of most RAW files are known. Tools do exist, even if they are not user friendly (often libraries you can use in your own-developed projects).

- The best control would be to only use camera that support RAW file signature (mainly 1D and D3 systems). The private keys have been cracked, which means signatures can be faked in theory, but to my knowledge the tools (or even the keys) have not been publicly disclosed.

- Other kind of control: run the entries through search engines (Google image, TinEye) in case of a image stolen elsewhere.

That's all I'm aware off from the top of my head. As you can see, there is no perfect system. Hope this helps.
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