|
| Author | Thread |
|
|
10/16/2011 09:39:32 AM · #51 |
| This is the best "open letter" I've read. It's a little wordy, but take the time to read it, you just might agree. //www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/12/1025555/-Open-Letter-to-that-53-Guy?mid=5012 |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 09:47:35 AM · #52 |
Originally posted by GAP2012:
and we need to get rid of government right down to the inner core and start again, remove fiat money altogether and lock up the 1% elite where they deserve to be rotting in gaol for all their duplicity including the economists and bankers who took the public for all theyre worth and give the resources back to people in a logical and fair way... oh well thats my illusion on the delusion we already have ;O) there is no democracy only hipocracy and dogma of the controlling state that teaches kids to be dumber than ever... |
i don't think they are teaching the kids to be dumber than ever, i think it's a byproduct of teaching them to be blind followers. |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 10:00:25 AM · #53 |
Originally posted by o2bskating:
Originally posted by GAP2012:
and we need to get rid of government right down to the inner core and start again, remove fiat money altogether and lock up the 1% elite where they deserve to be rotting in gaol for all their duplicity including the economists and bankers who took the public for all theyre worth and give the resources back to people in a logical and fair way... oh well thats my illusion on the delusion we already have ;O) there is no democracy only hipocracy and dogma of the controlling state that teaches kids to be dumber than ever... |
i don't think they are teaching the kids to be dumber than ever, i think it's a byproduct of teaching them to be blind followers. |
|
|
|
|
10/16/2011 10:06:48 AM · #54 |
Originally posted by GAP2012:
Originally posted by o2bskating:
Originally posted by GAP2012:
and we need to get rid of government right down to the inner core and start again, remove fiat money altogether and lock up the 1% elite where they deserve to be rotting in gaol for all their duplicity including the economists and bankers who took the public for all theyre worth and give the resources back to people in a logical and fair way... oh well thats my illusion on the delusion we already have ;O) there is no democracy only hipocracy and dogma of the controlling state that teaches kids to be dumber than ever... |
i don't think they are teaching the kids to be dumber than ever, i think it's a byproduct of teaching them to be blind followers. |
|
your not wrong but they are dumbing down education and as a result your right; they\'re blind followers and of course they teach elitism and specialisation with out of date information and data and expect people to be happy with their big screen tv and lies broadcasted in true american properganda and nationalistic flag waving and the same is true of other nations which americas top call communist, fascist, maxist or any other IST they choose to hide the truth of their own back door.
the fear people are led down is of a new world order based on new ideas of how best to move the world forward as a whole and with the masses being the priority, yet they are willing to accept the current even more terrifying new world order that is the current hidden agenda of the elite.
if you want to watch and hear someone else who has a grasp on the reality of the economy and the blind following of what is blindingly obvious to us who openend our eyes to the illusion years ago then checkout this: you tube search for "In conversation with: Prof. Steve Keen" on renegade economist, he\'s got it mostly right! |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 10:16:07 AM · #55 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by Spork99:
And the banks shouldn't have taken $400,000,000,000.00 of taxpayer money, claiming they were on the verge of collapse, promising that they would be then be able to lend that money to people when instead, they dropped lending levels to historic lows and paid record CEO and employee bonuses to the same people that fucked things up in the first place. |
I think your blame is misplaced on this one - if the gov't offered you $400B to "keep your business from collapse", would you take it? Especially after you donated generously to the campaigns of those in power? The problem is that the government authorized it. If both sides held their own reps accountable instead of constantly pointing the finger at the other side - which keeps them both in power - we might actually see some changes in our government. If you (not you, Spork, the collective "you") did some research and found out who in the government bailed out the banks, you'd see it is the same list of politicians (left and right) that received large campaign donations from these banks or financial institutions. Many people believe that things would have been terribly worse if they had not been bailed out, but many also believe that we would have gotten through it much quicker and been better off for it.
As long as the left can co-opt this movement and keep the anger aimed solely at the opposing political party, everything will stay the same. The worst possible outcome for the current power structure is that these protesters and the protesters on the right decide to coalesce around the one thing I believe they both agree on - that corporate and special interest wealth and power has WAY too much TOTAL influence on our system of government. The Tea Party and OWS people will never agree on most philosophical or ideological principles, but I still believe there is common ground that could be addressed and may serve to unite people in a more productive way.
Full disclosure: I am a former liberal, programmed to automatically vote Democrat and hate anything anyone on the right ever offers. Evolved to a fiscal conservative, but still somewhat socially liberal. I was a "Republican" for a few years and while they represent some of my views and values more closely than Democrats, I became disenchanted with them when I couldn't see much difference between either party - the rhetoric is different, but the results are the same and I am more interested in results than ideaology. Not that I voted for him or or agreed with his plans, but Obama is more Bush-like than Bush was and I am blown away that the people that supported him don't feel betrayed - much like many on the right who supported Bush felt betrayed by many of his policies - patriot act, overreaching, overspending, etc.
I've had enough of ALL of them and enough of the partisan division amongst ourselves. I'd like to vote for a viable third party candidate, but the media (a cheerleader for the status quo) convinces me that there is no such thing as a viable third party.
While I may participate in some sarcastic political sniping, I am truly more interested in hearing people discuss some viable solutions to these problems that we are all aware of - and I try to give people who may be the polar political opposite to me, the benefit of the doubt that they believe their positions are in the best interest of everyone - I believe most people have most people's best interests at heart regardless of where they are in the political spectrum. Yet we always hear things like "they want to kill your grandmother" or "they want to turn this country into communist country" - anything to keep us polarized. I also try not to rely on only information sources that I know are aligned with me politically and have found that this is the only way I can try and discern any truth - to whatever extent that is possible.
my two cents anyway. |
Sure, I'd take the money to save my business, but I'd use it for its intended use, to keep my business running, not to have a big party and give my employees huge payouts. Especially considering that some of these same employees created the problem in the first place.
The Republican vs Democrat, Left vs Right etc. is just a distraction from the real problem of corporate and the wealthy influence over government while marginalizing the influence of the people. |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 10:26:33 AM · #56 |
  
Message edited by author 2011-10-16 10:52:46. |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 11:25:19 AM · #57 |
Originally posted by GAP2012:
Originally posted by GAP2012:
Originally posted by o2bskating:
Originally posted by GAP2012:
and we need to get rid of government right down to the inner core and start again, remove fiat money altogether and lock up the 1% elite where they deserve to be rotting in gaol for all their duplicity including the economists and bankers who took the public for all theyre worth and give the resources back to people in a logical and fair way... oh well thats my illusion on the delusion we already have ;O) there is no democracy only hipocracy and dogma of the controlling state that teaches kids to be dumber than ever... |
i don't think they are teaching the kids to be dumber than ever, i think it's a byproduct of teaching them to be blind followers. |
|
your not wrong but they are dumbing down education and as a result your right; they\'re blind followers and of course they teach elitism and specialisation with out of date information and data and expect people to be happy with their big screen tv and lies broadcasted in true american properganda and nationalistic flag waving and the same is true of other nations which americas top call communist, fascist, maxist or any other IST they choose to hide the truth of their own back door.
the fear people are led down is of a new world order based on new ideas of how best to move the world forward as a whole and with the masses being the priority, yet they are willing to accept the current even more terrifying new world order that is the current hidden agenda of the elite.
if you want to watch and hear someone else who has a grasp on the reality of the economy and the blind following of what is blindingly obvious to us who openend our eyes to the illusion years ago then checkout this: you tube search for "In conversation with: Prof. Steve Keen" on renegade economist, he\'s got it mostly right! |
this is another problem i have, there is no dumbimg down of america, not intentionally anyhow. we are the product of our own greed. the media cant force feed us what we don't want. we vote our consumption with our purchases and our ratings, no one is forcing anyone to watch the polarized cable news networks or radio shows, no one is forcing us to buy stuff. we do it becuase we want to.
a big problem is most of us dont care, we watch the kardasions, or however you spell the stupid name, instead of learning and researching what the real problems in the world are. we hve all this data at our finger tips and no one uses it, these politicians throw out these new economic plans and we dont even bother to research it, we just tune in to see what our favorite political has to say and they use their words bucause its easier to regurgitate that than to think for ourselves.
an back to the banks, sure it looked bad that these people were still getting big bonuses, but did you ever stop to think why these people get big bonuses? because they perform. the banks paid back their loan, in part by keeping these ceos who had a clue how to run a company. everyone wants to keep blaming the banks but they were required to lend to low income families because those people were "entitled" to own a home, the banks dont want to take on high risk debt but they have to at the expense of the rest of us. now with all these fees, its all because of government regulation, they have to due certain things, cant charge retailers what they used to so now those costs get passed onto us, they do after all have shareholders to please. nobody was bitching and moaning when their stocks and 401k were rocketing with all these earnings reports, but now we want to blame them when they get stuck with debt alot of us cant repay.
Message edited by author 2011-10-16 11:26:47. |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 11:57:49 AM · #58 |
| so far as the banks go it is their fault, or banking in general's fault. they created these things called derivatives which is basicly forging money and that's what has caused all of the problems. not the lending, not the government regulations but the derivatives. go look it up cause i can't explain it in 10 min but it's basically forgery. |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 12:02:32 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by GAP2012:
Originally posted by GAP2012:
Originally posted by o2bskating:
Originally posted by GAP2012:
and we need to get rid of government right down to the inner core and start again, remove fiat money altogether and lock up the 1% elite where they deserve to be rotting in gaol for all their duplicity including the economists and bankers who took the public for all theyre worth and give the resources back to people in a logical and fair way... oh well thats my illusion on the delusion we already have ;O) there is no democracy only hipocracy and dogma of the controlling state that teaches kids to be dumber than ever... |
i don't think they are teaching the kids to be dumber than ever, i think it's a byproduct of teaching them to be blind followers. |
|
your not wrong but they are dumbing down education and as a result your right; they\'re blind followers and of course they teach elitism and specialisation with out of date information and data and expect people to be happy with their big screen tv and lies broadcasted in true american properganda and nationalistic flag waving and the same is true of other nations which americas top call communist, fascist, maxist or any other IST they choose to hide the truth of their own back door.
the fear people are led down is of a new world order based on new ideas of how best to move the world forward as a whole and with the masses being the priority, yet they are willing to accept the current even more terrifying new world order that is the current hidden agenda of the elite.
if you want to watch and hear someone else who has a grasp on the reality of the economy and the blind following of what is blindingly obvious to us who openend our eyes to the illusion years ago then checkout this: you tube search for "In conversation with: Prof. Steve Keen" on renegade economist, he\'s got it mostly right! |
this is another problem i have, there is no dumbimg down of america, not intentionally anyhow. we are the product of our own greed. the media cant force feed us what we don't want. we vote our consumption with our purchases and our ratings, no one is forcing anyone to watch the polarized cable news networks or radio shows, no one is forcing us to buy stuff. we do it becuase we want to.
a big problem is most of us dont care, we watch the kardasions, or however you spell the stupid name, instead of learning and researching what the real problems in the world are. we hve all this data at our finger tips and no one uses it, these politicians throw out these new economic plans and we dont even bother to research it, we just tune in to see what our favorite political has to say and they use their words bucause its easier to regurgitate that than to think for ourselves.
an back to the banks, sure it looked bad that these people were still getting big bonuses, but did you ever stop to think why these people get big bonuses? because they perform. the banks paid back their loan, in part by keeping these ceos who had a clue how to run a company. everyone wants to keep blaming the banks but they were required to lend to low income families because those people were "entitled" to own a home, the banks dont want to take on high risk debt but they have to at the expense of the rest of us. now with all these fees, its all because of government regulation, they have to due certain things, cant charge retailers what they used to so now those costs get passed onto us, they do after all have shareholders to please. nobody was bitching and moaning when their stocks and 401k were rocketing with all these earnings reports, but now we want to blame them when they get stuck with debt alot of us cant repay. |
No,it's not because they perform. Didn't they also come up with and promote the "mortgage backed securities" that wound up fucking everyone... why yes they did. How is that performance?
When you talk about the banks lending practices, you seem to forget that the banks didn't have to make loans that people they knew weren't going to be able to repay them. The lenders developed the "self verify" process that allowed people the inflate their income to get into bad loans. The banks were required to take some increased risk, but they took it far beyond simply increasing risk into "WTF are you doing?" territory.
If I fuck up at work and then fix it, I still fucked up and get held accountable, the consequences may not be as severe as if I hadn't fixed it, but the net result will still be negative. |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 12:59:05 PM · #60 |
Third party is not a solution. Making political donations illegal is a great idea but which politicians will vote for it?
PS Foreclosures are unique to the US, in most other countries you cannot just walk away because you cannot pay. And the banks cannot lend without proper checking so such situation could not arise. |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 02:36:03 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
an back to the banks, sure it looked bad that these people were still getting big bonuses, but did you ever stop to think why these people get big bonuses? because they perform. |
Are they? Are they performing 10 times better than they were 1970? Because their compensation has risen ten fold while worker pay has stagnated when adjusted for inflation. CEO and board pay is based on "competitive" salaries, and they decide if they are competitive enough to get a better than average compensation package. So the merry go round goes around and around ratcheting up pay, year after year, because each board sees itself as being entitled to "above average" compensation.
During a time when American's manufacturing base has shrunk, our GDP has shrunk, our median household income has stagnated, but executive pay has ballooned. If this is top performance, can I have the much lower performance of Japanese or Swedish CEOs who's incomes are limited by law or shame to some multiplier of the lowest earning employee in his employ? And who's value of their stock options maturing in the next quarter is less important to them than the long term health of the company and it's employees long term employment. Compared to them, American CEO's have performed shamefully.
Message edited by author 2011-10-16 14:39:09. |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 04:57:22 PM · #62 |
| And why is it that dogs lick their genitals? |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 04:59:10 PM · #63 |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 07:46:30 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by GAP2012:
Originally posted by GAP2012:
Originally posted by o2bskating:
Originally posted by GAP2012:
and we need to get rid of government right down to the inner core and start again, remove fiat money altogether and lock up the 1% elite where they deserve to be rotting in gaol for all their duplicity including the economists and bankers who took the public for all theyre worth and give the resources back to people in a logical and fair way... oh well thats my illusion on the delusion we already have ;O) there is no democracy only hipocracy and dogma of the controlling state that teaches kids to be dumber than ever... |
i don't think they are teaching the kids to be dumber than ever, i think it's a byproduct of teaching them to be blind followers. |
|
your not wrong but they are dumbing down education and as a result your right; they\'re blind followers and of course they teach elitism and specialisation with out of date information and data and expect people to be happy with their big screen tv and lies broadcasted in true american properganda and nationalistic flag waving and the same is true of other nations which americas top call communist, fascist, maxist or any other IST they choose to hide the truth of their own back door.
the fear people are led down is of a new world order based on new ideas of how best to move the world forward as a whole and with the masses being the priority, yet they are willing to accept the current even more terrifying new world order that is the current hidden agenda of the elite.
if you want to watch and hear someone else who has a grasp on the reality of the economy and the blind following of what is blindingly obvious to us who openend our eyes to the illusion years ago then checkout this: you tube search for "In conversation with: Prof. Steve Keen" on renegade economist, he\'s got it mostly right! |
this is another problem i have, there is no dumbimg down of america, not intentionally anyhow. we are the product of our own greed. the media cant force feed us what we don't want. we vote our consumption with our purchases and our ratings, no one is forcing anyone to watch the polarized cable news networks or radio shows, no one is forcing us to buy stuff. we do it becuase we want to.
a big problem is most of us dont care, we watch the kardasions, or however you spell the stupid name, instead of learning and researching what the real problems in the world are. we hve all this data at our finger tips and no one uses it, these politicians throw out these new economic plans and we dont even bother to research it, we just tune in to see what our favorite political has to say and they use their words bucause its easier to regurgitate that than to think for ourselves.
an back to the banks, sure it looked bad that these people were still getting big bonuses, but did you ever stop to think why these people get big bonuses? because they perform. the banks paid back their loan, in part by keeping these ceos who had a clue how to run a company. everyone wants to keep blaming the banks but they were required to lend to low income families because those people were "entitled" to own a home, the banks dont want to take on high risk debt but they have to at the expense of the rest of us. now with all these fees, its all because of government regulation, they have to due certain things, cant charge retailers what they used to so now those costs get passed onto us, they do after all have shareholders to please. nobody was bitching and moaning when their stocks and 401k were rocketing with all these earnings reports, but now we want to blame them when they get stuck with debt alot of us cant repay. |
this is the usual answers i get from bankers and stock brokers and that doesn't mean they're correct, its only part of the equation, its the bankers and stock brokers who have caused this and many other problems that have led to 2008 and now 2011. on top of that it was these same people who ran the privately owned banking cartels who lobbied and sat in government to deregulate everything they had on agenda and when things screwed up they were given the job of fixing it again but with public money.
then theres the problem of RepubliCrats, no single political party is either separate from the other nor can they be objective as they get massive injections of money from the private sector in the run up; then from lobbyists, the inner government is run by corporate driven agenda's and served by media that just wont tell the whole truth.
schools are being dumbed down everywhere not just america but in other western societies and each generation has been taught out of date information especially in science, go research it for yourself i have. i never said the information wasn't out there and we have to all learn to do our due diligence, but we are simply fed BS all the way down the line and with the amount of disinformation that comes from the hierarchy its not surprising most people cant discern or choose to watch a lot of rubbish. kids watch a lot of tv and grow up thinking this is real life and learn unhealthy lessons from it.
im not saying these people in power are all crooks but those who arent cant affect anything because the system is so corrupted and serves the hidden agenda of the minority with power, or they are so deluded about the system they created that they dont even realise it. that is part of the problem. the sooner the like of the bilderburgers and rothchilds are taken out of the equation the better, they alone can service all the debt many times over and deserve to be put on trial for warcrimes! but thats a different matter lol.
have a great day people! :O) |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 07:57:23 PM · #65 |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 07:58:30 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by mike_311:
[quote=GAP2012] [quote=GAP2012] [quote=o2bskating] [quote=GAP2012].
an back to the banks, sure it looked bad that these people were still getting big bonuses, but did you ever stop to think why these people get big bonuses? because they perform. the banks paid back their loan, in part by keeping these ceos who had a clue how to run a company. everyone wants to keep blaming the banks but they were required to lend to low income families because those people were "entitled" to own a home, the banks dont want to take on high risk debt but they have to at the expense of the rest of us. now with all these fees, its all because of government regulation, they have to due certain things, cant charge retailers what they used to so now those costs get passed onto us, they do after all have shareholders to please. nobody was bitching and moaning when their stocks and 401k were rocketing with all these earnings reports, but now we want to blame them when they get stuck with debt alot of us cant repay. |
No,it's not because they perform. Didn't they also come up with and promote the "mortgage backed securities" that wound up fucking everyone... why yes they did. How is that performance?
When you talk about the banks lending practices, you seem to forget that the banks didn't have to make loans that people they knew weren't going to be able to repay them. The lenders developed the "self verify" process that allowed people the inflate their income to get into bad loans. The banks were required to take some increased risk, but they took it far beyond simply increasing risk into "WTF are you doing?" territory.
If I fuck up at work and then fix it, I still fucked up and get held accountable, the consequences may not be as severe as if I hadn't fixed it, but the net result will still be negative. |
yes exactly! |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 07:59:30 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Originally posted by mike_311:
an back to the banks, sure it looked bad that these people were still getting big bonuses, but did you ever stop to think why these people get big bonuses? because they perform. |
Are they? Are they performing 10 times better than they were 1970? Because their compensation has risen ten fold while worker pay has stagnated when adjusted for inflation. CEO and board pay is based on "competitive" salaries, and they decide if they are competitive enough to get a better than average compensation package. So the merry go round goes around and around ratcheting up pay, year after year, because each board sees itself as being entitled to "above average" compensation.
During a time when American's manufacturing base has shrunk, our GDP has shrunk, our median household income has stagnated, but executive pay has ballooned. If this is top performance, can I have the much lower performance of Japanese or Swedish CEOs who's incomes are limited by law or shame to some multiplier of the lowest earning employee in his employ? And who's value of their stock options maturing in the next quarter is less important to them than the long term health of the company and it's employees long term employment. Compared to them, American CEO's have performed shamefully. |
you hit the nail on the head! |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 08:00:06 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by o2bskating:
they need regulated |
absolutely.... |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 08:20:53 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by MargaretN:
OK, I give up. The core problem in the US is not going to go away. The poor, the unemployed, the homeless have themselves to blame. THIS IS THE AMERICAN WAY.
Back to the real world :(
And occasionally share some photos. |
Please explain to me how it is my fault that the corporation that I previously worked for laid me off (not a job performance issue), paid me off so I wouldn't sue for wrongful termination and now I'm trying to find a job in a less than stellar economy in TX. We own and are still comfortable making payments on the house we built 9 years ago, but the house payment is the same as we were paying for a two bedroom apartment!! Please explain to me how this (being unemployed) is MY fault! The employers down here don't bother contacting the people they decide not to hire...they just don't communicate and this was coming from the TWC in Texas!!!! (She verified my comment to her, lol.) I have always paid my way, done my job and played by the rules, but the big corporations seem to be able to bend/change/manipulate the rules at the expense of everything other than stockholder share! Some of the biggest world corporations in the US don't pay one red cent in taxes! I call B******t! I am fast moving to the bottom of the middle class and it's not because of anything I'm doing or not doing! (And YES, I do vote! :P ) |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 08:25:27 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by bergiekat:
Originally posted by MargaretN:
OK, I give up. The core problem in the US is not going to go away. The poor, the unemployed, the homeless have themselves to blame. THIS IS THE AMERICAN WAY.
Back to the real world :(
And occasionally share some photos. |
Please explain to me how it is my fault that the corporation that I previously worked for laid me off (not a job performance issue), paid me off so I wouldn't sue for wrongful termination and now I'm trying to find a job in a less than stellar economy in TX. We own and are still comfortable making payments on the house we built 9 years ago, but the house payment is the same as we were paying for a two bedroom apartment!! Please explain to me how this (being unemployed) is MY fault! The employers down here don't bother contacting the people they decide not to hire...they just don't communicate and this was coming from the TWC in Texas!!!! (She verified my comment to her, lol.) I have always paid my way, done my job and played by the rules, but the big corporations seem to be able to bend/change/manipulate the rules at the expense of everything other than stockholder share! Some of the biggest world corporations in the US don't pay one red cent in taxes! I call B******t! I am fast moving to the bottom of the middle class and it's not because of anything I'm doing or not doing! (And YES, I do vote! :P ) |
I'm pretty sure she was being sarcastic. |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 08:36:29 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by bergiekat:
Originally posted by MargaretN:
OK, I give up. The core problem in the US is not going to go away. The poor, the unemployed, the homeless have themselves to blame. THIS IS THE AMERICAN WAY.
Back to the real world :(
And occasionally share some photos. |
Please explain to me how it is my fault that the corporation that I previously worked for laid me off (not a job performance issue), paid me off so I wouldn't sue for wrongful termination and now I'm trying to find a job in a less than stellar economy in TX. We own and are still comfortable making payments on the house we built 9 years ago, but the house payment is the same as we were paying for a two bedroom apartment!! Please explain to me how this (being unemployed) is MY fault! The employers down here don't bother contacting the people they decide not to hire...they just don't communicate and this was coming from the TWC in Texas!!!! (She verified my comment to her, lol.) I have always paid my way, done my job and played by the rules, but the big corporations seem to be able to bend/change/manipulate the rules at the expense of everything other than stockholder share! Some of the biggest world corporations in the US don't pay one red cent in taxes! I call B******t! I am fast moving to the bottom of the middle class and it's not because of anything I'm doing or not doing! (And YES, I do vote! :P ) |
it's not your fault or mine we both worked hard but now i'm living at my mom's house cause i lost my job and my house. if this is the american way then i want the hell out! |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 08:44:45 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
The Republican vs Democrat, Left vs Right etc. is just a distraction from the real problem of corporate and the wealthy influence over government while marginalizing the influence of the people. |
To me this is the issue... Who cares what corruption your particular flavored politician has... It's irrelevant.
For positive ideas how about a single reform.... Ban the party affiliation.... Each politician is independent and has to come from the pools of local, regional, state e.t.c. elected officials - "government" give x dollars to each layer for people that can get enough votes to run and the process is controlled outside of the party system. NO contributions allowed - NONE of these stupid organisations that take out ads for candidates - NO support organisations - Nothing..... Separate oversight to ensure this with the power to remove any politician for proven cheating.
A million issues to deal with but that would be a start.... Politicians should be scared of the electorate not show it contempt with corporate owners with $$. Get the slime out of politics back to where politicians honestly try to help the country not grab what they can for themselves - and that is where we are today regardless of colour....
Clearly not possible.... |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 08:49:07 PM · #73 |
| you need to add in the option for citizens to unelect at any time a politician that isn't doing what he said he would do. |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 09:26:34 PM · #74 |
I think the developed countries (US an Europe) have gotten too greedyĆ¢including the protesters. We want to work as little as possible, and make as much money as possible for that work. The problem is that other people, in less developed countries, will do the same work, with a better attitude, for much less money. As consumers, we expect low prices, and buy not from ourselves but from the people who work cheaper than we will. That gave us the best of both worlds, high wages and low prices. The problem is that this system is not self sustaining. In order to keep it going, we have had to borrow insane amounts of money from the very same people who are making our goods. (They feel compelled to loan us the money so we keep buying their products.)
Meanwhile, all the manufacturing jobs have gone to less expensive labor markets. We won't work for less, and we won't do menial jobs, so we hire illegals to do them for us.
The laws of economics have caught up with us, and no amount of protesting will change the basic situation. People are going to have to work for less like the rest of the world. As an alternative, we could boycott products from cheap labor markets and pay the high price for goods associated with high labor costs.
We also will have to get rid of the ridiculous regulations that add costs to manufacturing and producing raw materials. Environment is important, but the thing that helps the environment the most is a country that is wealthy. If you have been to poor countries you know how bad the air and water can get. We are now too poor to spend billions on the environment. Ironically, we have to increase our wealth through manufacturing to better care for the environment.
The protestors seem misguided to me. Wall Street is only a small part of the problem, and it may be a key to our redemption. The protestors seem to be demanding more money for even less production, just the problem that has gotten us into this mess. I think they should turn their attention to Washington. We need to start producing if we want to be wealthy. Taking the money from the rich will get us nowhere. They can't sustain the 99% for more than a very brief party.
To start producing again we must be willing to accept lower wages and longer hours. We must relax regulations and law suites that stifle business. We must relax (not cancel) environmental regulations. We must produce natural resources (natural gas could make us a lot of money in the US.) We must insist that our students actually learn in school (this doesn't take money, just enforcing a work ethic at an early age.)
These protests seek a goal that is unobtainable by the law of economics. More money for less work can no longer be sustained. If we don't put our noses to the grindstone and start producing, we will all be poor. |
|
|
|
10/16/2011 09:48:56 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by cloudsme:
We also will have to get rid of the ridiculous regulations that add costs to manufacturing and producing raw materials. Environment is important, but the thing that helps the environment the most is a country that is wealthy. If you have been to poor countries you know how bad the air and water can get. We are now too poor to spend billions on the environment. Ironically, we have to increase our wealth through manufacturing to better care for the environment. |
Yes indeed...by all means let's cut regulations and see how many disasters will follow. I am certain the the multinational corporations will ensure that disasters such as those that occurred in the USA not that long ago will never occur again.
Originally posted by cloudsme:
To start producing again we must be willing to accept lower wages and longer hours. We must relax regulations and law suites that stifle business. We must relax (not cancel) environmental regulations. We must produce natural resources (natural gas could make us a lot of money in the US.) We must insist that our students actually learn in school (this doesn't take money, just enforcing a work ethic at an early age.)
|
Gee, while we are at it, why not elimate laws restricting children from working and get rid of those pesky labour laws, workplace safety regulations and other similar rules that curtail production.
Oh in passing, these massive cuts in pay would also apply to the CEOs of these large corporations too I gather, or would they be excluded since they are busy taking care of the great masses of unwashed and uneducated that form the other 99% of the population.
Ray
Message edited by author 2011-10-16 23:16:31. |
|
|
|
Current Server Time: 08/05/2025 09:58:40 PM  |
Home -
Challenges -
Community -
League -
Photos -
Cameras -
Lenses -
Learn -
Help -
Terms of Use -
Privacy -
Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 08/05/2025 09:58:40 PM EDT.
|
