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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> "Four Critical Ruling Bargains" β€” A Column
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 09/04/2011 11:34:38 AM · #1
This is a very thought-provoking (and scary) column from today's New York Times:

Thomas Friedman on changes taking place in the world.

Message edited by author 2011-09-04 11:34:50.
 09/04/2011 12:07:17 PM · #2
very thought provoking. it surprises me how many of my friends and family agree that we have a need for a third centrist party with the fiscal sensibilities of republicans and the investment in our infrastructure thinking of democrats but we still haven't seen such a party/candidate emerge. it seems almost like such a candidate/party is such a threat to the established system that it would face a serious uphill struggle to come to power, despite the wishes of what appears to be a majority of voters.
 09/05/2011 03:36:54 PM · #3
Did this get lost in the shuffle, or should I just have launched it in "Rant" to draw the political audience? Come on people, this is really interesting, and really important, stuff to think about.

R.
 09/05/2011 05:08:10 PM · #4
I think there are simply too many people in the world. Think about it - we've become marvelously automated to the point we don't NEED people to do things, yet we "need jobs". How is this to work?

09/05/2011 05:13:57 PM · #5
I don't know, Bear, it seems to me that Friedman is a little late to the table.
 09/05/2011 05:26:25 PM · #6
Originally posted by tnun:
I don't know, Bear, it seems to me that Friedman is a little late to the table.


I don't see how you can say that. He's describing what he sees as some serious issues. What do you mean, "late to the table"? "Should have brought this up earlier" maybe? Well, yeah, but just because we've collectively ignored this for so lomng doesn't make it any less real, and any less worth dealing with, does it?

R.
 09/05/2011 05:30:00 PM · #7
Originally posted by Melethia:
I think there are simply too many people in the world. Think about it - we've become marvelously automated to the point we don't NEED people to do things, yet we "need jobs". How is this to work?

This is my exact feelings as to where technology has lead us, it has outdated capitalism. Since we no longer need skilled employees, and very few employees at all, where are the consumers supposed to earn the money to be part of the so called consumer driven capitalism? It used to take 10's of 1,000's of people to mine coal, or make steel, or grow food, no longer. But they still expect those same unneeded people to keep buying food, energy and items, they just hope someone else will employ them.
 09/05/2011 05:34:37 PM · #8
Originally posted by amsterdamman:
... But they still expect those same unneeded people to keep buying food, energy and items, they just hope someone else will employ them.


...and when situations get dire we have wars to cull the masses.

Ray
 09/05/2011 06:08:34 PM · #9
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Did this get lost in the shuffle, or should I just have launched it in "Rant" to draw the political audience? Come on people, this is really interesting, and really important, stuff to think about.

R.


The problem is that he just lays out the issues that face the global economy. Had he come up with a few simple fixes and told us all to follow, there would have been a reaction; some for, some against. Then we could have had a nice "Jane you ignorant slut" argument. If you are going to point the way to a well written deep think article about how we are entering a new phase and no one knows what is going to happen, its far too complex to spark a good knock down, drag out argument.
 09/05/2011 06:10:59 PM · #10
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by amsterdamman:
... But they still expect those same unneeded people to keep buying food, energy and items, they just hope someone else will employ them.


...and when situations get dire we have wars to cull the masses.

Ray


Exactly. And what about the people who aren't smart enough to do "skilled" labor? Manual (factory type) labor jobs are obsolete in the US. Those people have nothing to turn to. It's easy to say educate them. The fact is, some people aren't smart enough to learn. It does no good to rail in forums against this stuff. Nothing will change until only the very rich have housing & food available to them. Maybe then there will be blood in the streets as the have nots wage guerrilla warfare on the haves. Crazy stuff, but it will come to that eventually.
 09/05/2011 06:36:50 PM · #11
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by tnun:
I don't know, Bear, it seems to me that Friedman is a little late to the table.


I don't see how you can say that. He's describing what he sees as some serious issues. What do you mean, "late to the table"? "Should have brought this up earlier" maybe? Well, yeah, but just because we've collectively ignored this for so lomng doesn't make it any less real, and any less worth dealing with, does it?

R.


What do you propose?
 09/05/2011 06:50:35 PM · #12
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by amsterdamman:
... But they still expect those same unneeded people to keep buying food, energy and items, they just hope someone else will employ them.

...and when situations get dire we have wars to cull the masses.
Ray

I have been seeing the despair in Somalia on the news, they have so many children with so much war and so little food. The human species is an amazing at reproduction. The population of Somalia (as far as I can see on the web) went from 6 million in 1997 to 9 million today under the worst conditions, even with no food and endless war they added 3 million people. I'm not sure what it would take to cull the human population, other than the weather. The year was 1816: the year without a summer. One volcano erupted in 1815, millions starved the next year across the world when the summer growing season failed. History tends to repeat itself, sadly.
 09/05/2011 06:52:23 PM · #13
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Did this get lost in the shuffle, or should I just have launched it in "Rant" to draw the political audience? Come on people, this is really interesting, and really important, stuff to think about.

R.


The problem is that he just lays out the issues that face the global economy. Had he come up with a few simple fixes and told us all to follow, there would have been a reaction; some for, some against. Then we could have had a nice "Jane you ignorant slut" argument. If you are going to point the way to a well written deep think article about how we are entering a new phase and no one knows what is going to happen, its far too complex to spark a good knock down, drag out argument.


Ah, gotcha... Besides, my name doesn't begin with SC or DR so I don't have the cachet to keep one of these threads up and running. I should stick to photography, I guess.

R.
 09/05/2011 07:20:39 PM · #14
LOL!!
 09/05/2011 07:25:42 PM · #15
Robt, I'll get em going. Friedman
 09/05/2011 07:36:37 PM · #16
In an admittedly belated attempt to put the thread back on track, I think the article puts together some key ideas that have been expressed in one form or another in other venues. The point is that the confluence of these events could be potentially disastrous. The idea that we need more centrist though in the US is certainly not new. Too bad our "leadership" doesn't seem to be listening.
 09/05/2011 07:43:23 PM · #17
It's hard to argue with some of his points but individuality we have mostly known this for some time.... collectively we keep hiding the fact under another war/bailout/celebrity wardrobe malfunction (WTF that means) or drug bust or movie. I am appealed at what passes for "news" on the box and what's left of the papers.

I would LOVE to see a new party in a number of countries.... that stopped spending more then they have but also stopped giving it to big companies and had some common sense to help the people and infrastructure. I just don't see how that is possible in the majority of the 2 party systems in the so called 1st world. For the other countries with a dozen parties... well.... that don't work either.

Something just has to give..... and it's FAR past time we started talking about the real topics WITHOUT the crap that has become politics now.... but I am not optimistic.
 09/05/2011 07:53:13 PM · #18
Friedman hits on some of the obvious aspects of our times, but he seems to miss the gravity of our situation. There are criticisms of his journalism from many sides: Chomsky and Taibbi, to name just 2.

Don't your alarm bells ring when you read this in his final paragraph?

" If we donΓ’€™t get our act together Γ’€” which will require collective action normally reserved for wartime Γ’€” we are not going to just be prolonging an American crisis, but feeding a global one."

I believe him to be a very foolish man.
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