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09/01/2011 09:29:42 PM · #26 |
to the OP:
no, but it better be a damn good shot to compete with the eye candy. |
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09/01/2011 09:58:09 PM · #27 |
But they SHOULDN'T know it is me !
Originally posted by FourPointX:
Originally posted by kenskid:
- it must be the ********* ...
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photographer? :) |
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09/01/2011 10:16:01 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
I don't think a gigantic portion of DPC are against "stock photos".
ETA
6 sub 5 votes, 7+ score; and it's not even up to his standards. ;)
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Yeah but this is what I mean (though that challenge is sorta separate because people were replicating what somebody already did... so that's a pretty good replication of Sherpet's style, IMO). The results come out as such, but EVERY CHALLENGE and all the time everybody says "oh another dumb stock shot." Yet... the voting bears out this preference. I hear (har har) Bear on them perhaps being more vocal and thus obvious, but seriously... there's a lot of folks that say it. A LOT.
I kinda vote all over the place myself, paying attention to eye candy and weirdness at different moods.
I started thinking about the eye of the beholder and art after the first Fine Arts challenge. I think it's good for people to think about what is art, their opinion, but that challenge also seemingly encouraged everybody to be the proverbial "misunderstood (cough cough BAD cough cough) artist." |
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09/01/2011 10:42:48 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
I started thinking about the eye of the beholder and art after the first Fine Arts challenge. I think it's good for people to think about what is art, their opinion, but that challenge also seemingly encouraged everybody to be the proverbial "misunderstood (cough cough BAD cough cough) artist." |
Ha! And by bad you mean...what? Perceived bad?
By the way, I chose  H2's image because it was there.
ETA: I'm nitpicking the generalization that everybody is bored by stock type images. It can't be true based on the voting...or it's another example of the beautiful getting ahead based on the initial visual impact. ;)
Message edited by author 2011-09-01 22:48:07. |
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09/01/2011 10:55:53 PM · #30 |
ah, but perhaps that is the answer! so many stock photographers here - thus the scoring so high on this stuff. they vote what they know. they drool over the budget, the model, the props and lighting ... no? the pros have the bucks and draw big votes from those that wish they had a studio. if you can pay the bills with stock then fine, but it would be nice to see more fine art challenges is all. and we shouldnt just single out the stock folks. hell, we getting obvious wedding and portrait outtakes here all the time.
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
I started thinking about the eye of the beholder and art after the first Fine Arts challenge. I think it's good for people to think about what is art, their opinion, but that challenge also seemingly encouraged everybody to be the proverbial "misunderstood (cough cough BAD cough cough) artist." |
Ha! And by bad you mean...what? Perceived bad?
By the way, I chose H2's image because it was there.
ETA: I'm nitpicking the generalization that everybody is bored by stock type images. It can't be true based on the voting...or it's another example of the beautiful getting ahead based on the initial visual impact. ;) |
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09/01/2011 11:23:18 PM · #31 |
| You don't need a fine art challenge to enter an image that you consider fine art, whatever that may be. I wonder if you mean enter something "not pretty". |
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09/01/2011 11:52:34 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
I started thinking about the eye of the beholder and art after the first Fine Arts challenge. I think it's good for people to think about what is art, their opinion, but that challenge also seemingly encouraged everybody to be the proverbial "misunderstood (cough cough BAD cough cough) artist." |
Ha! And by bad you mean...what? Perceived bad?
By the way, I chose H2's image because it was there.
ETA: I'm nitpicking the generalization that everybody is bored by stock type images. It can't be true based on the voting...or it's another example of the beautiful getting ahead based on the initial visual impact. ;) |
I'm just referring to the cliche "i'm just a misunderstood artist" archetype that makes things so out there in order to differentiate themselves.
But I agree with what you're getting at- I don't mean to be an arbiter of art. On the contary, I err far more to the opposite side. And I'm in agreement about people not being bored. That's my point- tons of people SAY they're bored, but the voting supports a different picture overall. |
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09/02/2011 12:14:55 AM · #33 |
Yeah, that's what I thought you meant given your past views.
Message edited by author 2011-09-02 00:15:25. |
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09/02/2011 12:15:20 AM · #34 |
thats uncalled for. I am perfectly able to use those two idiotic words without you "guessing" Im trying to say that. Im not. sheesh.
(quote=bspurgeon] You don't need a fine art challenge to enter an image that you consider fine art, whatever that may be. I wonder if you mean enter something "not pretty". [/quote] |
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09/02/2011 12:17:16 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by oldbimmercoupe:
thats uncalled for. I am perfectly able to use those two idiotic words without you "guessing" Im trying to say that. Im not. sheesh.
(quote=bspurgeon] You don't need a fine art challenge to enter an image that you consider fine art, whatever that may be. I wonder if you mean enter something "not pretty". |
[/quote]
?? I think you misunderstood me. |
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09/02/2011 12:25:06 AM · #36 |
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09/02/2011 01:37:21 AM · #37 |
IMHO the reason eye candy tends to win over "fine art" (whatever you hold that to be) is that we have 800 pixels to get it across. Simple ideas fit in 800 pixels. I like to make the odd art shot, and when print them, I print them BIG. Art needs room to breath, it needs to demand attention and focus, and then it has to be worthy of that time spent in observance. An online gallery where the average voter spends long enough to breathe in and out once while examining an 800 pixel image can not give art the time and space it needs.
That said there are artist here, most of who's work I would love to see much larger, and a few who are so talented they can actually make fine art fit in 800 pixels. Look at the work of the first photographer I was stunned by on this site jjbeguin . No, he doesn't win as many ribbons as he should, though he has quite a few, but his work is respected by those who are so inclined, and that seems to be enough for him. If I got as good comments form his commenters, I would be satisfied. |
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09/02/2011 01:55:30 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
Is it just me, or has anybody else ever thought about how a gigantic portion of the people on DPC decry "stock photos" and whatever else is the status quo yet evidently vote in favor? The sheer number of people who rail against this are enough to hypothetically sway the vote, but they don't. Why?
Is it only artsy if you yourself did it (in the DPC voter's eyes)? |
Great question..... and when I sort based on my vote I often see my top entries below 10th but sometimes I get the few at the top in the same sequence. I have no clue why but it's still a great question..... probably something "cool" to say you don't like the eye candy when you really do... not sure. |
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09/02/2011 02:17:41 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
IMHO the reason eye candy tends to win over "fine art" (whatever you hold that to be) is that we have 800 pixels to get it across. Simple ideas fit in 800 pixels. I like to make the odd art shot, and when print them, I print them BIG. Art needs room to breath, it needs to demand attention and focus, and then it has to be worthy of that time spent in observance. An online gallery where the average voter spends long enough to breathe in and out once while examining an 800 pixel image can not give art the time and space it needs.
That said there are artist here, most of who's work I would love to see much larger, and a few who are so talented they can actually make fine art fit in 800 pixels. Look at the work of the first photographer I was stunned by on this site jjbeguin . No, he doesn't win as many ribbons as he should, though he has quite a few, but his work is respected by those who are so inclined, and that seems to be enough for him. If I got as good comments form his commenters, I would be satisfied. |
+1
I couldn't agree more. When you only stare at a photo for less than 3 seconds you just can't get the more abstract pieces as well as a stock photo.
I don't think its so much that DPCers inherently go for the pretty picture, its that the voting system itself sets these pictures up to succeed. |
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09/02/2011 02:56:00 AM · #40 |
And then there is this:
Fine art AND won popular vote. It can be done but there are very few DPCers who can do it. |
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09/02/2011 03:40:26 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by MargaretN:
Originally posted by Sevlow:
In general eye-candy wins the day - though, as others have mentioned, the odd one gets through. Just take photos that you enjoy and thumb your nose at the DPC crowd. |
But then why does everyone wants to get a ribbon? There are a lot of contradictions in this. Why be on a competition-based site if you don't like winning? |
Because I like the company, I enjoy taking photos, sharing thoughts with others etc.
It's not about winning for me, I am not very competitive but I enjoy taking part and I put very little effort into my work, hence my mediocre scores.
Oh, and I like eye-candy photos but I believe too many people here try to please the mass of DPC rather than just take photos that they like to take.
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09/02/2011 05:46:08 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by FourPointX:
it depends on your definition of "winning"
yes, we are all here for the competition. but that's only a part of what most of us are here for. advice, tips, tricks, feedback, learning.
 this image got a 5.7. Despite recently scoring a 7.25 on another image, I consider it my biggest win to date, with 30 comments during voting and 8 favorites.
winning is different for many of us here. a well received image is a good win for most of us, a nice score is a bonus. |
I agree with the above! I have been here since 2002, haven't won a ribbon and personally could not care less! I am here for the Dpc family and the learning and the advice etc.
Quite honestly I am finding that when I go to vote now days and look at the entries, I am inclined to go ho hum seen that before, or I know who that is. There is a lot of copycat photos of the winners and also the voters are inclined to say "ooh something like that won before!" Take your sunrise / sunset photos but dont post them send them to postcard or jigsaw puzzle companies!
The Macro challenge was overwhelmed by water drops, beautifully done but oh so boring!
Message edited by author 2011-09-02 05:46:42. |
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09/02/2011 06:18:10 AM · #43 |
i rank my photos with the most comments to be my best ones.
anyone can leave a 9 or 10, but you really know you hit the chord if someone takes time to comment, and if you get a few of those in a challenge, you know you did something right. |
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09/02/2011 06:21:12 AM · #44 |
| I think I have only one entry with no comment! |
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09/02/2011 09:11:53 AM · #45 |
I do find that my voting has changed over time. The shots that impressed the heck out of me when I first got here are usually now in the "seen it before" category. I still feel I have to give a good vote to a good photo, but they will likely get a 6 or 7. The higher numbers are reserved for the ones that connect with me.
I expect that as soon as this "why do the same kind of shots often win?" topic thread peters out, one will pop up about "why do good photos get slammed with low votes?".
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09/02/2011 10:48:30 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
I do find that my voting has changed over time. The shots that impressed the heck out of me when I first got here are usually now in the "seen it before" category. I still feel I have to give a good vote to a good photo, but they will likely get a 6 or 7. The higher numbers are reserved for the ones that connect with me.
I expect that as soon as this "why do the same kind of shots often win?" topic thread peters out, one will pop up about "why do good photos get slammed with low votes?". |
This is what we shall all aim for. This is life and this is art. Growing a bit. Developping some taste for wanting to learn and not for seeing and experiencing the usual, the common, the familiar.
It shall start with the taste; there is a moment when one shall try that "yuckkky" piece of liver, or foie gras ... Julia Child sa id (and I often quote her in my presentations) quote loosely having a full blown sinusitis and fever: " here are pieces of meet and other thigs that look disgusting and withthem I"ll cook you an ambrosian meal" . Have an open mind.
Photography started with a bang and then made people afraid that it will replace painting. It did not. photography took a bent towards illustration (see giaban here at DPC)Then painting copied photography. Nowadays it's just using it.
There are plenty of sites of "artistic" photography or art sites where photography seeps through (and it should not).
An artistic photo is not of a repugnant subject or a sad or dramatic or fuzzy, blurry and dark one. There is Goya with the sleep of reason and Vermeer, right?
There are people who would give much for a round of applause, a little ribbon, a nod. We shall aim higher. We have the tools, we have a keen eye, we have a site to discuss and not to sell to earn a living. We can explorere.
Again, sorry for the spelling, fuzziness of mind. To be sick at the end of summer .... |
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09/02/2011 11:28:31 AM · #47 |
| I never mark a good photo down even if it bores me to tears! mostly my low vote is a 5 with the occasional 4! |
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09/02/2011 12:24:58 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by MargaretN:
Originally posted by Sevlow:
In general eye-candy wins the day - though, as others have mentioned, the odd one gets through. Just take photos that you enjoy and thumb your nose at the DPC crowd. |
But then why does everyone wants to get a ribbon? There are a lot of contradictions in this. Why be on a competition-based site if you don't like winning? |
This is an unusually interesting thread, and  MargaretN's is an unusually interesting comment among many so far.
When I first joined this community years ago (with my old mate Bear_Music), I tried to take pictures just like the most successful ones here (in scoring terms). I failed.
Eventually I realised that the problem wasn't with the voters; it was with me. I was taking the wrong photographs, for me.
So I began to take pictures that I liked. I found that there were other people here who liked them too. No very many, but I also discovered that that was perfectly fine with me.
So Margaret, I don't like winning on DPC, and I hardly ever like any of the pictures that do 'win' here, but that doesn't mean that I don't like DPC. I just don't want to win a ribbon here.
Instead I prefer taking pictures of which hardly anyone says, "Gosh, I wish I had done that!" It's not necessarily a contrarian's view.
It comes down to the difference between enjoying photographs and enjoying photography. I like the former, but have I no interest at all in the latter. |
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09/02/2011 04:41:18 PM · #49 |
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09/02/2011 06:46:03 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
all the time everybody says "oh another dumb stock shot." Yet... the voting bears out this preference. I hear (har har) Bear on them perhaps being more vocal and thus obvious, but seriously... there's a lot of folks that say it. A LOT. |
I rarely give out low votes to those images. Then again I avoid looking at, much less voting on, stock challenges like the plague... |
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