Advice to newbie on Neutral Density Filters

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

08/03/2011 09:36:57 AM · #1

I am going on holiday next month and will be staying by the sea and I would like to purchase a Neutral Density Filter to enable me to take some photos of the sea with long exposures. I am a total beginner so really just want to get something fairly cheap (around $60 - $100) that will allow me to have a play. I would appreciate some advice on what make and setting to go for.

I will be using it on a EF-S 17-85 IS USM lens with my Canon 40D body. It will be mostly during daylight I will have a play though would be good if I could use at sunset too.

Not sure if one would be enough to have a play or if I need several with different settings?

Any advice much appreciated.

Thanks

Paul

amsterdamman

Canon EOS-5D

08/03/2011 09:58:58 AM · #2

I got a B+W 10 stop ND filter, it works very well. Cost â�¬95 from a shop.
It is very dark and unless it is full daylight, you need to remove it to compose your shot and then screw it back on.
I've shot with the 10 stop after sunset as well, very soft water and skies.
You may consider getting a polarizer first or as well, it also has about a 2 stop light reduction and can help with sea and sky.
I've shot with both the polarizer and the 10 stop ND on together during the days.
Hoya is popular, but I read many bad reviews about them. I do have a Hoya UV and a B+W UV, can't tell them apart so far.

Yo_Spiff

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

08/03/2011 10:06:52 AM · #3

I have a super cheap 10x ND filter. If I spend money for a nicer one, i will be buying something a fair amount darker. In daylight 10x is not quite dark enough. This was shot about 9 am. Even with the 10X filter, I had to use a very narrow aperture to get the kind of blur I wanted.

ISO 100, F18.0, 1/5 second. EF-S 17-85 IS

Message edited by author 2011-08-03 10:08:06.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

08/03/2011 11:15:54 AM · #4

Thanks for the replies. Just to clarify, with a 10 stop is it so dark you can pretty much not see anything? In daylight, if I had less than a 10 stop one, would it not be possible to do long exposure shots or would it just mean I cannot do them quite so long?

I do have a Polarizer (Hoya Pro1 Circular PL) though to be honest I am not sure what exactly it does. It does appear to make the sky look a lot better so I have just left it on the lens permanently. I also have a UV filter (also Hoya Pro1) which a friend recommended I buy to protect my lens from scratching. So I have this on first and then the Polarizer on top of this.

Is the choice of single coated or multi coated that important to a beginner like me?

Btw cool photo Yo_Spiff:)

amsterdamman

Canon EOS-5D

08/03/2011 11:31:34 AM · #5

If you have the polarizer on, I'd take the UV off. One is enough to protect the lens element. Always use at least one though.
Rotate the polarizer while you look through the lens, see the sky and or water change color and some reflections can be minimized.
I find there are two best spots on mine, and know where to put the "made in Germany" on mine for normal shots.

During the day with 12 stops (my 10 stop ND + 2 stops Polarizer) I can see enough to compose the shot and focus the image.
Since its a long exposure technique, you are almost required to use a tripod, so adding the filter once you are ready is just nerve-wracking from fear of dropping it.
Even with the 12 stops, you have to work to get it a very long exposure esp. during the day. F-stop at 8 or even 22, ISO as low as you can go (ISO 50 for me).
I have not thought "this 10 stop is too dark" yet

I think single coated is enough, as far as I know.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

08/03/2011 12:03:17 PM · #6

Hey thanks amsterdamman (very cool name indeed!)

Good tip to remove the UV - I will do just that. I wasn't sure if the Polarizer being on all the time would screw up other non sky shots.

Will have a go rotating the polarizer - didn't realise it was possible to adjust like this.

Ok cool - looks like I will hunt down a single coated 10 stop Hoya ND filter:)

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

08/03/2011 01:37:03 PM · #7

Originally posted by paulsteven:

I do have a Polarizer (Hoya Pro1 Circular PL) though to be honest I am not sure what exactly it does. It does appear to make the sky look a lot better so I have just left it on the lens permanently.

Polarizers limit the light passing through to waves oriented in a particular plane. The effect will vary considerably with the angle to the sun -- they usualy work best when shooting at about 90Â° to the direction of the light. In addition to the direction you are pointing, the effect will vary a lot as you rotate the polarizer. Polarizers are usually used to darken skies and increase contrast in clouds, and to reduce reflections/glare off water. I would not leave it on all the time, since it will often require increased exposure without adding any benefit.

You can also add a second polarizer over the first, and by rotating them in relation to each other and the scene achieve up to four or so stops of neutral density reduction.

alexlky

08/03/2011 06:27:58 PM · #8

I'm a newbie too. But I frequently went to stay by the sea. long exposure is about slow capturing of light thus produce a contrasty image not necessarily mean only for seascape.

My definition of long exposure is something above 30 seconds to few minutes to get every moving subjects disappear. You'll need additional accessories to hold your shutter above 30 seconds, view finder eye cup, a solid tripod and ND gradual filters (Cokin). Beside common Hoya greenish 8 stops ND400 (or reddish B&W ND3.0 9stops), I use to stack it with ND8 or ND4 sometime few of them together as long as the focusing is able to focus at the brightest spot. Average common shutter speed is 1-2 minutes but not much of moving skies unless very strong wind or super impose it with Radial Zoom Blur editing

It's not an easy task for the 1st time user if you do not know the use of CPL. A cheap filters will easily cause magenta cast if stacking too many filters. Long exposure is not safe if its against direct sun with improper setting that sometime will cause dead pixel to sensor. ND4 or ND8 + CPL are more useful, you can get long exposure during dusk and dawn hour. hope this may help.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

08/03/2011 07:13:34 PM · #9

Originally posted by alexlky:

A cheap filters will easily cause magenta cast if stacking too many filters.

With my two stacked polarizers I was able to get a vibrant blue cast at certain angles. :-)

alexlky

08/03/2011 09:53:41 PM · #10

Originally posted by GeneralE:

With my two stacked polarizers I was able to get a vibrant blue cast at certain angles. :-)

I did tried that before. The capture image is in uneven brightness, blue cast at the middle and terrible ghosting/flare. I think I read somewhere that its only work with stacking CPL over a PL.... I'm not sure. It's interesting you can share more of 2 polarisers stacking?

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

08/04/2011 01:20:23 AM · #11

Originally posted by alexlky:

... you can share more of 2 polarisers stacking?

I've only briefly experiemented with this technique -- I put a cheap ($10 used) linear polarizer over a circular polarizer and took a few shots using a tiny mini-tripod. I was able to get what I thought were reasonable exposures with a shutter-speed of 2-4 seconds in full daylight.

alexlky

08/04/2011 04:18:45 AM · #12

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by alexlky:
... you can share more of 2 polarisers stacking?

I've only briefly experiemented with this technique -- I put a cheap ($10 used) linear polarizer over a circular polarizer and took a few shots using a tiny mini-tripod. I was able to get what I thought were reasonable exposures with a shutter-speed of 2-4 seconds in full daylight.

So, now I learned something new; Circular PL stacked over Linear PL works. It's totally difference result from CPL over CPL. I can guess the slow shutter from the smooth reflection, it's very nice. Thanks for sharing and the OP will have this option too.

08/04/2011 05:01:06 AM · #13

@alexlky

Thanks for the very useful reply. I had a feeling it wasn't going to be as easy as I imagined to get the type of pictures I had imagined. Now I do have a reasonable tripod I believe (Gitzo G1120 with a Manfrotto 486RC2 head) as I bought this on a friends recommendation when I purchased the camera. I am not entirely sure what the eye cup is you mention but there is a rubber thing on the camera strap for covering the viewfinder - is this the thing I need? If not then what is required and what is the purpose? With regards gradual filters, I had hoped I could get away without having to get one of these. I am really only at the stage of experimenting with the general idea as I love the look of these types of photos.

Perhaps I am trying to bite off more than I can chew:)

Many thanks for the reply.

@GeneralE - sounds like I may be better to keep the UV on permanently and just put on the Polarizer when required. Thanks for the heads up.