Getting Started with Lighting - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

05/18/2011 10:53:01 AM · #1

I have always enjoyed photography, but 6 months ago made the decision to actually learn about photography and get off of the "P" mode. I have learned about f-stops, apertures, ISOs, and am able to figure out how to make just about any shot work in the "M" mode now (though sometimes this still takes a lot of thought and trial and error!)

I am now trying to move on to learning about lighting. At this point all I have in the way of lighting equipment is a Canon 430 EX II Speedlight. What would you recommend as being essential pieces of equipment to begin my adventure into the wonderful world of artificial lighting? (by the way, I am far from rich, so please keep this in mind with the recommendations!) Also, any tips/tricks in this area would be greatly appreciated!

Message edited by author 2011-05-18 10:54:30.

sjhuls

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

05/18/2011 11:10:25 AM · #2

I didn't have stands so I had to tape my flashes to them and prop them on boxes and stools because I didn't have any stands.

Recently I made a small upgrade to some cowboy studio softboxes and stands, I don't do a lot of paid work so it is perfect for me and when I do I look a little more professional. I found them on Amazon.com and they cost me around $140 for 2 stands and 2 25 inch softboxes.

It just goes to show you don't need fancy equipment to get decent looking images. Just some creativity. :)

Yo_Spiff

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

05/18/2011 11:32:59 AM · #3

Those optical flashes that Jenn bought from me also did me well for quite a while. I tend to buy something inexpensive to learn with, so when I spend more money I have a better idea of what I want. I upgraded to some cheap radio triggers (Yongnou RF-602's) and some Yongnou YN-432 flashes to go with them. I probably have about $250 invested in the flashes and triggers, not including umbrellas and other lighting gear. The main advantage of these over the optical slaves has been adjustable power output and they don't have any battery saving auto-off, so they stay on until I turn them off.

Now I need to convince her to buy my Sigma 70-300...

Message edited by author 2011-05-18 11:33:53.

hopefulcrafty1

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

05/18/2011 12:51:23 PM · #4

Originally posted by sjhuls:

I have had to make do with lighting on a limited budget but it can be done. The first thing I purchased was some used vivtar flashes from yo_spiff I got three of them with peanut triggers for $45. So look around for something used like this. These flashes were not meant for a digital camera but work perfect off camera as slave flashes. I use my YN speedlight flash on camera to trigger them. So look around for something used. You could also go the strobe route and get some fairly inexpensive ones on Amazon.

The next thing I did was made 2 homemade softboxes. look for tutorials online, they are fairly simple to make and I made mine with things I found around the house so they were free. I have been able to produce images like this:

I didn't have stands so I had to tape my flashes to them and prop them on boxes and stools because I didn't have any stands.

Recently I made a small upgrade to some cowboy studio softboxes and stands, I don't do a lot of paid work so it is perfect for me and when I do I look a little more professional. I found them on Amazon.com and they cost me around $140 for 2 stands and 2 25 inch softboxes.

It just goes to show you don't need fancy equipment to get decent looking images. Just some creativity. :)

Thanks for the advice. It really helps. So what do you use for the backdrops for those photos?

crowis

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

05/18/2011 01:44:03 PM · #5

Okay. Let me ask this question (mayhaps I need to new thread this. . .) If I owned a Canon -luckily hopeful does as well, so this should help her out too - and I had to go to Amazon to buy a set up, what would I have to buy to be able to say I have decent basic (decent) lighting? How does that differ from a "good" set up?

robs

Canon EOS R6 Mk II

05/18/2011 02:27:56 PM · #6

Oops - I typed this earlier today and forgot to hit post.. so may be duplicated with posts I didn't see...

You can get by with very little.... A sheet and a home depot light will work for example (put the sheet between the subject and light, set the WB to match the HD light and have at it). Not saying there are not disadvantages to that - there are.

Next level is probably the cheap non eTTL flashes - say $100-$150 each with some sort of trigger - cable is cheap, radio more $, reliable radio a lot more $.

Next level might be some studio strobes - more power - modeling lights e.t.c. OR a set of eTTL flashes that can be played with from camera.

05/18/2011 03:41:21 PM · #7

Out of curiosity, what can you budget to get into lighting? Believe it or not, shoe-mount flashes are always the least costly option.

For example Adoroma has Flashpoint monolights starting at $50.

Message edited by author 2011-05-18 15:43:06.

crowis

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

05/18/2011 04:31:17 PM · #8

I can throw up to a couple hundred bucks into a lighting set up. I have a crappy shoe mount flash that came as part of a kit, but I would like to get something that I can slave to my cannon for strobe, and or umbrella lighting. . .just not sure what to do with my 200 bucks to give me the best bang for my dollah.

sjhuls

05/18/2011 05:08:38 PM · #9

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

LOL! Spiff just needs to stay one step ahead of me so that I can buy all of his cast offs.

For backdrops I have a large king size white sheet that I use when I do my white backgrounds and a very large piece of black felt I use for the black background. I bought both at walmart. They work great as long as I don't need a huge background.

05/18/2011 05:13:58 PM · #10

Originally posted by crowis:

Well, you can keep buying crappy shoe mount flashes, or go for real power with $200.

//www.adorama.com/FP320MP.html -the 320M a 150 w/s strobe plus battery pack.

I use the 620M, a 300 w/s unit, for most of my outdoor shoots, although, unless shooting into the sun at midday, I rarely use it a full power.

Message edited by author 2011-05-18 17:20:07.

robs

Canon EOS R6 Mk II

05/18/2011 05:24:05 PM · #11

Leroy - I think you missed a not in that prev reply... You are saying shoe mounted flashes are NOT always the cheapest path... agree completely.

Depends on a lot of factors... not the least of which is electricity :-) There are a lot of advantages to a basic studio strobe - power, modeling lights e.t.c and that flashpoint Leroy pointed at is very good value for little $$.... not perfect by any means but a good start. As would AB400. With a studio setup... have a look at modifiers and what not as they will be part of the larger cost.

If you have to be portable... well you can go studio with battery packs if you have to have the power but otherwise hotshoe flashes are a great option (see the whole strobist thing if you go that path). You lose out on power and modifiers going this path.

hopefulcrafty1

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

05/18/2011 05:45:49 PM · #12

So after reading the earlier posts this is what I was looking at for a total of $275.55:

- 2 YN-560 Speedlights ($67.36 each)
- CowboyStudio Photography Backdrop Supporting System with Case ($54.65)
- 6X10' Black Muslin Backdrop ($19.89)
- CowboyStudio NPT-04 4 Channel Wireless Hot Shoe Flash Trigger Receiver ($22.45)
- DMKFoto Speedlight to Studio Lighting Conversion Kit A ($32.99)
or
- Speedlight to Studio Lighting Conversion Kit A($40.99)
- Cowboy Studio Muslin/Paper Nylon Clamps, Set of 10 ($12.22)

I was also thinking that the speedlights would offer a little more versatility as you can easily adjust the power output of the flashes. However,after reading the last few posts I am not sure. I would appreciate more input on the pros/cons of a speedlight set up. Also, any feedback on the above set-up would be appreciated.

05/18/2011 05:57:58 PM · #13

Originally posted by hopefulcrafty2:

I would appreciate more input on the pros/cons of a speedlight set up.

Pros: Lightweight, portable, easy to keep with you. Relatively inexpensive.
Cons: Low in power. Not as many options as far as light modifiers go (although that is getting better). Most have a fairly long recycle time when running on batteries.

Pros and cons of battery powered studio strobes:

Pros: More power. Availability of light modifiers. Quicker recycle times. Power levels can be adjusted in finer increments. Can be run on AC power when battery power isn't needed.

Cons: They get heavy quickly on walks down the beach, which could be a pro, if you want a good core workout.

robs

Canon EOS R6 Mk II

05/18/2011 06:05:32 PM · #14

ok - Let me have a go... maybe step back some..... Studio strobes or hotshoe flashes can both be used inside and outside. Triggers are essentially the same with both - full eTTL hotshoes just add a proprietary way to trigger with remote control them but for a budget conversation that's not an option due to the cost of those flashes so take that one away. What is left is manual control from each light - no remote controls as that is part of the eTTL or part of the radio trigger depending where you are talking.

"Studio" Strobe
- Need a battery pack or electricity
- Heavy & bulky compared to hot shoes
- Usually far more power then a hotshoe
- Better and more modifiers... although that is catching up a lot recently

Hotshoe flashes
- Mostly AA battery based, no need for a wall
- Lighter and smaller then studio
- Less power generally
- Much more fiddly and less modifiers

No doubt I missed some and some are subjective like all things...

Now if you have to be able to remote control them well... It's going to cost $$$.
- Most of the radio triggers are just a fire thing with no remote control over power.
- The more expensive ones (radiopopper studio/pw flex) can get some basic control over cheap flashes (they cheat and cut off the flash themselves)... but FAR from the control that eTTL has.
- If you want to spend more $ some radios will allow the eTTL to be carried over radio BUT all the flashes then have to be eTTL not cheap manual flashes.... that is the big increase in cost over the prev point.

Any of that diatribe help?

EDIT: He types faster... seems we basically agree :-)

Message edited by author 2011-05-18 18:06:21.

sjhuls

Pentax DA 16-45mm f/4.0 ED AL AF

05/18/2011 06:16:50 PM · #15

Originally posted by hopefulcrafty2:

I was also thinking that the speedlights would offer a little more versatility as you can easily adjust the power output of the flashes. However,after reading the last few posts I am not sure. I would appreciate more input on the pros/cons of a speedlight set up. Also, any feedback on the above set-up would be appreciated.

I don't own strobes but often find myself wanting them, speedlight do the trick for most situations and are versatile and lightweight, but are fidgety and I find myself messing with them much more than I would like and also missing that shot because they were powering up and didn't go off. My next purchase will be some strobes probably not an expensive pair, and no battery pack, I will just bring my speedlights if I need light for an outdoor shot.

I was just happy to find a cheep set I could play with and get an idea of what lighting is and what I will need when I get more serious about it in the future. If I hadn't have found my set of three with remote triggers included for $45 I probably would have bought the set of strobes

fotomann_forever just suggested.

Message edited by author 2011-05-18 18:17:43.

alohadave

Pentax K-5

05/18/2011 06:31:13 PM · #16

Originally posted by hopefulcrafty2:

Start here:

//strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html

Then, read through this:

//strobist.blogspot.com/2007/06/lighting-102-introduction.html

Then, re-read and do all of the exercises until you understand them.