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04/26/2011 12:20:34 PM · #1 |
Ok -- I have a seagate freeagent backup drive -- 2 TB
It's out of space.
It shouldn't be out of space.
I'm trying to figure out how it does the backup. It has a folder for each of the drives it's backing up, but then it also has a history folder with 10 levels. I didn't know if these were just incremental backups, or what. And it's hard to tell from the contents of those levels.
My ignorant question of the day is this:
I'm constantly cleaning out, deleting and adding new pictures. When software does a backup, does it just backup the new stuff, or will it go back and also delete the things (from the backup) that you have deleted off your hard drive?
The backup drive should be sufficiently large to backup the rest of my drives, but it's been out of space for more than a month now. |
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04/26/2011 12:55:04 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
When software does a backup, does it just backup the new stuff, or will it go back and also delete the things (from the backup) that you have deleted off your hard drive? |
I'm pretty sure a backup program won't delete anything from your backup, and yes, they are usually set up to do an "incremental" backup of only those items which are new or have changed. |
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04/26/2011 12:59:20 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by vawendy:
When software does a backup, does it just backup the new stuff, or will it go back and also delete the things (from the backup) that you have deleted off your hard drive? |
I'm pretty sure a backup program won't delete anything from your backup, and yes, they are usually set up to do an "incremental" backup of only those items which are new or have changed. |
What would you recommend doing, then? If that's the way it works, I'll just keep filling backup drives. Should I just have two backup drives and just wipe them before each backup so it's not doing incremental ones? |
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04/26/2011 01:01:32 PM · #4 |
Everything depends on the backup software. Traditional backup software creates a full backup the first time, and then incremental backups on subsequent runs. The incremental backups only back up what changed. There are no deletions. the problem with (most) of this software is that you need the software to read the backup. The backup is not just a copy of the files/folders, but one big compressed, indexed file, kind of like a .zip archive.
More modern software can "synchronize" two file sets so that both are updated, including moved or deleted folders and files. You have to be careful with how you configure and use this type of software; if you delete from one place and then synchronize, the deletion *will* carry over, and the file will truly be gone. The benefits, however, are that you have a copy of your files/folders that can be directly read by any computer you hook it to. IMO, this is the way to go.
What software are you currently using to back up? |
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04/26/2011 01:20:46 PM · #5 |
| I'm not at my computer at the moment, but it's the Seagate software that came with the free agent drive. It does have sync capability, and I was wondering whether I should be using that. But if my kids accidentally delete my entire photos folder and it syncs after that... |
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04/26/2011 01:53:10 PM · #6 |
I have used a program for years named MirrorFolder, and it performs like the name. You tell it which folders to mirror and where to place the copies, and it maintains a mirror image of those folders. Any changes to the watched folder (files additions, saves, deletions, sub-folder additions/deletions, etc) are automatically made to the backup drive. If the drives are internal to the computer (EIDE or SATA), the program can be set to immediately make the changes to the backup drive (it is actually sequential operations, but so fast that you cannot detect the operation happening). If any of the drives are external the operations are not as quick. If I am saving out of Photoshop Elements to external drives, the file operations are either faster or slower than Elements (not sure which is the actual case) and I get an error. So I have to set the backup to be a timed event. In my case the program mirrors the folders every 5 minutes or so.
Since the program maintains two (or more) identical copies, you have to maintain any file revision histories manually. But the benefit is that there are not duplicate file versions stored and taking up space.
This program has worked very well for me for probably 15 years or so. Once it is set up it just runs in the background unobtrusively. |
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04/26/2011 02:01:54 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
I'm not at my computer at the moment, but it's the Seagate software that came with the free agent drive. It does have sync capability, and I was wondering whether I should be using that. But if my kids accidentally delete my entire photos folder and it syncs after that... |
Ah; I actually have that software somewhere, but I've never used it so I don't know how it stores stuff. What I use is a Microsoft Power Toy called SyncToy 2.1. It can be configured in "contribute" mode, where it creates a copy of a folder structure, but does not perform any deletions. This is useful when you want to ensure that you keep deleted files in your backup, "just in case." SyncToy is easy, fast, *free* and simply creates a copy of the structure and files, so you can plug the drive into any computer, et voila!, there are your files. |
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04/26/2011 02:39:45 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by vawendy:
I'm not at my computer at the moment, but it's the Seagate software that came with the free agent drive. It does have sync capability, and I was wondering whether I should be using that. But if my kids accidentally delete my entire photos folder and it syncs after that... |
Ah; I actually have that software somewhere, but I've never used it so I don't know how it stores stuff. What I use is a Microsoft Power Toy called SyncToy 2.1. It can be configured in "contribute" mode, where it creates a copy of a folder structure, but does not perform any deletions. This is useful when you want to ensure that you keep deleted files in your backup, "just in case." SyncToy is easy, fast, *free* and simply creates a copy of the structure and files, so you can plug the drive into any computer, et voila!, there are your files. |
What's the oldest version of Windows that will work with? |
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04/26/2011 03:26:33 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
What's the oldest version of Windows that will work with? |
I'm using it with both WinXP and Win 7 64-bit. It works great with both, and anything in between. |
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04/26/2011 04:23:39 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
What's the oldest version of Windows that will work with? |
I'm using it with both WinXP and Win 7 64-bit. It works great with both, and anything in between. |
Pssst ... Windows 2000 Pro ... |
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04/26/2011 05:08:31 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Pssst ... Windows 2000 Pro ... |
Um, well, yep, looks like you're out of luck with that... :-( |
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04/26/2011 05:32:30 PM · #12 |
I have had a programme called Sync Toy (free download) which you can use to backup stuff.
with this program you can tell it to echo, replace, etc.
If you delete items from one source and add new items it will only update the additions and remove what you removed from the other drive.
I use it to copy images and music to backup drives.
It is manual but its very handy.
Gather it's still available but haven't looked.
Maybe that would help |
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04/26/2011 05:33:38 PM · #13 |
| It's OK -- I try to avoid any software which does anything "automatically" ... |
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04/26/2011 06:14:11 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Pssst ... Windows 2000 Pro ... |
Um, well, yep, looks like you're out of luck with that... :-( |
lol well... Only resolution to that is ctrl-alt-del.... then install something else :-) |
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04/26/2011 06:18:23 PM · #15 |
| I use norton Ghost 15 it run every night around 3am and add only the new files of my selected disks to the images on a backup drive. work nice for me |
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04/26/2011 06:57:24 PM · #16 |
I run jDiskReport (best to google it) which is a java based disk scanner - gives you a pie chart view of where you space is going - I find it really useful to run on drives that are fuller than expected. Usually it will turn up some backup files I had forgotten about, or show a folder full of temp files that can be deleted. A very handy (and free) tool.
As far as backups go, I use Acronis TrueImage software (cost me about £25) and run differential backups of my stuff daily to a NAS raid array. Works a treat. Differential backup is where it takes a full image of the disk on first run, then every day it records those changes since that first run. Then once a week it runs a consolidation where it essentially creates a new full image, and I keep a 3 full image version chain. Uses a lot of disk space overall, but well worth it. I used to work in the IT industry for a long time, and I will tell each and every one of you, your hard drive WILL fail, without question. It is all a matter of "when". Backup, backup, backup, and then backup some more. On-site backups for convenience, off-site backups for when your house is struck by lightning and burns to the ground taking all your on-site backups with it. |
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04/26/2011 06:57:56 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
It's OK -- I try to avoid any software which does anything "automatically" ... |
I like this.
I just hate things that work differently each time you use them. |
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04/27/2011 12:50:49 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by lawrysimm:
I will tell each and every one of you, your hard drive WILL fail, without question. It is all a matter of "when". |
lol Yeah... Only 2 classes of people - Those that have lost a driver and those that are about to... and you never get out of the 2nd class. I go by the theory that it does not exist unless it's in at LEAST 2 places. |
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04/27/2011 01:22:31 PM · #19 |
I've been having backup nightmares lately.
I can't wait until we hit "save" and it goes to 3 places automatically, with one off-site somewhere!
FWIW, I use Allway Sync, which is free and lives up to its slogan "File synchronization that works."
It copies actual files and has a nice interface that let's you easily control what happens. 1 way, 2 way, propagate deletions, etc. |
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04/27/2011 01:37:39 PM · #20 |
| Woke up this morning with the message "Err. Lecture disque". Never knew my computer spoke French, but my Windows boot disk was as dead as dead can be :(. So, the final test for Mozy backup (as soon as my current contract finish, I can't afford it anymore though, was 5$ a month unlimited, becomes 80$ a month if I stop with photography now). But, I got my mail, agenda en contacts back (yes, very happy!) and know that I have to clean up some stuff. Only 1 more day (and 12 hours to go) to get my (windows) home directory back. Luckily my 800Gb of photos were on another disk (and on another one). |
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04/27/2011 01:46:51 PM · #21 |
I'm just thinking that the yearly cost for backup isn't particularly worth it. Drives are getting so cheap these days. Even though it's off site, don't you worry about the business going belly up and taking your stuff with them? Perhaps it's just because we have had so many stores close around here with absolutely no notice.
One restaurant had a fund raiser for a local elementary school. Gave the school a check one night, closed their doors the next morning and the check bounced. |
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04/27/2011 02:39:11 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
I'm just thinking that the yearly cost for backup isn't particularly worth it. Drives are getting so cheap these days. Even though it's off site, don't you worry about the business going belly up and taking your stuff with them? Perhaps it's just because we have had so many stores close around here with absolutely no notice. |
I completely agree. Drive space is so cheap; make a copy, take it physically off site. Not only is the yearly cost not worth it, if you need to restore completely, it will take near forever. |
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04/27/2011 02:46:56 PM · #23 |
| Ah, see it as a kind of insurance :) How often does your house burn out completely? Btw. And to be practical, how often do you really bring your backup to another location? |
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04/27/2011 02:58:20 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by hajeka:
Ah, see it as a kind of insurance :) How often does your house burn out completely? Btw. And to be practical, how often do you really bring your backup to another location? |
To be honest, not as often as I really should. But if I really need the backup, it's 10 minutes away, not several days of downloads. |
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04/27/2011 03:02:56 PM · #25 |
I keep a backup in the box of junk in the boot of my car (it's encrypted so I'm not worried about my car being stolen), and I have a back up of my main operating system with all my software ready for a fresh install in my desk drawer at work.
Off-site need not mean "the cloud". In fact, due to the slow upload speed ADSL affords, I don't tend to back my data up to the cloud anyway. Just a few choice documents such as electronic copies of my will etc :-)
Unfortunately, many people do not take data backup seriously until they have had a major data loss and by then it's too late. I have quite a complicated backup process but it doesn't need to be that way.
The simplest method (if your motherboard permits) is putting a pair of identical drives in your machine and building a RAID 0 array (disk mirroring). Once running it is completely seamless to the user and you have two physically identical copies of your data. This at least protects you from a physical drive failure.
Of course, if your machine gets stolen then you lose both copies so a network attached storage device (NAS), or external drive that you make manual copies to and don't leave attached to your machine protects against the theft. My NAS is not in the same location as my PC so should a burglar take a fancy to my PC and run off with it, he will not likely spot the well hidden NAS device in another room.
You can make your backup system as easy or as complicated as you like... as long as you do have some sort of backup! I lost count of how many small cap companies I dealt with that had no backup in place at all for the data upon which their business depended. The loss of a hard drive in those cases would be enough to cause a small company to go bust.
Message edited by author 2011-04-27 15:18:59. |
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