Truth and Myth - USB 3.0 Card Readers

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

03/31/2011 05:57:42 PM · #1

jamesgoss I, too, am looking for a USB 3.0 card reader. I, too, so far don't have one.(I currently use eSATA for my readers)

Jamesgoss's question in this post - USB 3.0 Internal car reader? - is NOT easily answered.

DCNUTTER's implied assertion in the post that they are out there all over the place is incorrect. They aren't.

Its almost a 100% probability that even if you find and buy an internal USB 3.0 card reader that it will NOT work with your motherboard(MB). Even if you buy an expensive new MB, chances are good it with NOT support an internal on-board USB 3.0 port either. Most MBs support, at most, two external USB 3.0 ports. (Fortunately, they are common)

I know because I've been concerned with this very question when purchasing a new motherboard specifically selected for USB 3.0 and SATA 6.0Gb/s support.

The only real possibility for USB 3.0 card readers I know of right now is an external one! Most new MBs only support external USB 3.0 ports. The only exception I've found that supports Onboard USB 3.0 is this $349 Intel MB:
GIGABYTE G1.Gurrilla LGA 1366 X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

And guess what?...
I rejected that MB because, incredulously, it only supports two SATA 6.0Gb/s internal drives... I needed FOUR and I also needed support for RAID 10 on those four drives and that is even harder to find in MBs that also support SATA 6.0Gb/s!!

Bottom Line:
1-Determine if you need USB 3.0(5 Gb/s) in the first place. If you don't own high speed UDMA cards then you don't need it.
2-Be sure your computer and/or motherboard supports USB 3.0 where you need it.
3-Be EXTRA careful looking for a USB 3.0 card reader.

A legitimate UBS Card Reader:
The only real and proven USB 3.0 card reader I'm aware of is an external called the "Pretec P240 USB3.0 Multi-Card Reader". It was announced last summer and billed as the first USB 3.0 reader in the world. It has only recently become available in limited numbers. The only place I can find where you an buy it right now is:
$22.99 - Pretec P240 USB3.0 Multi-Card Reader

Almost every other reader is USB 3.0 compatible, but not true USB 3.0. That means it has an USB 3.0 plug but the internal connection is either standard USB 2.0 or, if they are good, eSATA. In any case... it isn't real USB 3.0!

The first card DCNUTTER linked MIGHT actually be true USB 3.0 but I really couldn't tell based on the way they described their tech specs. But even it if is, your MB won't have an internal USB 3.0 port to plug it into anyway! My suspicion, however, is that it is not because they describe their outside USB 3.0 plug as a "pass through port" and they don't specifically identify their internal connectors like most folks do.

The second card DCNUTTER linked looks like it might be the real deal but it doesn't even have a product name, has to be shipped from China which take 2-3 weeks and the one reviewer couldn't make it work. You decide if you want that one. :)

Alternatively, its possible that you might find an internal card reader with a SATA 6.0Gb/s internal connector that would work at USB 3.0 speeds, but I have not seen any.

For the most part, in the real world you are pretty much stuck with USB 2.0 or eSATA(much faster) for the moment.

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

03/31/2011 06:03:50 PM · #2

Originally posted by Artifacts:

Bottom Line:
1-Determine if you need USB 3.0(5 Gb/s) in the first place. If you don't own high speed UDMA cards then you don't need it.

Cards come and go with the season, when you upgrade, assume you will soon have the latest cards if you do not now own them. Choosing what I/O system you are limited to based on what storage type you have been using up to this point, is putting the cart before the horse.

03/31/2011 06:10:36 PM · #3

Originally posted by BrennanOB:

Perhaps, but not necessarily. We need to look at our projected upgrade path and timing and ask if we really will upgrade those cards prior to our next computer upgrade. Personally, I've been using the same camera body and cards for the past 5.5 years. Perhaps that's unusual, but we are seeing the start of maturity in the DSLR market, so continual upgrades will not be that beneficial, and so will become less prevalent.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

03/31/2011 06:14:09 PM · #4

Steve,
If you're going with an internal reader, why not a SATA reader? I haven't really looked, so I don't in fact know if they are a workable solution, but in theory the interface is plenty fast, and it doesn't have the processor overhead of USB.

ETA:
Just a little rant, but jeez, I wish when you bought a USB peripheral you could *count* on it being compatible and taking advantage of the speed available per its labeling. USB 2.0 was a disaster that way.

Message edited by author 2011-03-31 18:18:03.

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

03/31/2011 06:20:50 PM · #5

Originally posted by kirbic:

[ Perhaps that's unusual, but we are seeing the start of maturity in the DSLR market, so continual upgrades will not be that beneficial, and so will become less prevalent.

I went looking for CF cards at Costco the other day; they don't have anything but SD cards now. My next camera will take SD cards lest I be the last guy at the video store looking for Betamax tapes. I wont replace my MB for USB speed, but I would be reluctant to buy an upgrade for my box that wasn't compliant.

DCNUTTER

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

03/31/2011 06:31:58 PM · #6

Originally posted by Artifacts:

Like jamesgoss I, too, am looking for a USB 3.0 card reader. I, too, so far don't have one.(I currently use eSATA for my readers)

Jamesgoss's question in this post - USB 3.0 Internal car reader? - is NOT easily answered.

DCNUTTER's implied assertion in the post that they are out there all over the place is incorrect. They aren't.

Its almost a 100% probability that even if you find and buy an internal USB 3.0 card reader that it will NOT work with your motherboard(MB). Even if you buy an expensive new MB, chances are good it with NOT support an internal on-board USB 3.0 port either. Most MBs support, at most, two external USB 3.0 ports. (Fortunately, they are common)

I know because I've been concerned with this very question when purchasing a new motherboard specifically selected for USB 3.0 and SATA 6.0Gb/s support.

The only real possibility for USB 3.0 card readers I know of right now is an external one! Most new MBs only support external USB 3.0 ports. The only exception I've found that supports Onboard USB 3.0 is this $349 Intel MB:
GIGABYTE G1.Gurrilla LGA 1366 X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

And guess what?...
I rejected that MB because, incredulously, it only supports two SATA 6.0Gb/s internal drives... I needed FOUR and I also needed support for RAID 10 on those four drives and that is even harder to find in MBs that also support SATA 6.0Gb/s!!

Bottom Line:
1-Determine if you need USB 3.0(5 Gb/s) in the first place. If you don't own high speed UDMA cards then you don't need it.
2-Be sure your computer and/or motherboard supports USB 3.0 where you need it.
3-Be EXTRA careful looking for a USB 3.0 card reader.

A legitimate UBS Card Reader:
The only real and proven USB 3.0 card reader I'm aware of is an external called the "Pretec P240 USB3.0 Multi-Card Reader". It was announced last summer and billed as the first USB 3.0 reader in the world. It has only recently become available in limited numbers. The only place I can find where you an buy it right now is:
$22.99 - Pretec P240 USB3.0 Multi-Card Reader

Almost every other reader is USB 3.0 compatible, but not true USB 3.0. That means it has an USB 3.0 plug but the internal connection is either standard USB 2.0 or, if they are good, eSATA. In any case... it isn't real USB 3.0!

The first card DCNUTTER linked MIGHT actually be true USB 3.0 but I really couldn't tell based on the way they described their tech specs. But even it if is, your MB won't have an internal USB 3.0 port to plug it into anyway! My suspicion, however, is that it is not because they describe their outside USB 3.0 plug as a "pass through port" and they don't specifically identify their internal connectors like most folks do.

The second card DCNUTTER linked looks like it might be the real deal but it doesn't even have a product name, has to be shipped from China which take 2-3 weeks and the one reviewer couldn't make it work. You decide if you want that one. :)

Alternatively, its possible that you might find an internal card reader with a SATA 6.0Gb/s internal connector that would work at USB 3.0 speeds, but I have not seen any.

For the most part, in the real world you are pretty much stuck with USB 2.0 or eSATA(much faster) for the moment.

I didn't imply anything. He said he was going through hell trying to find ANY USB 3.0 internal drives. I did a quick Google search and found a number of them and provided a couple of links. Whether or not he has to modify his existing motherboard or computer is irrelevant. That is up to him to make it work. I simply provided a couple of links to get him started. Don't read more into it than necessary.

03/31/2011 06:51:30 PM · #7

Originally posted by kirbic:

I have an internal eSATA(sounds like a contradiction in terms but isn't) reader in my workstation now. I also have an eSATA reader in the external HD enclosure that I take on photo safaris.

For some crazy reason the internal reader in my workstation doesn't read my new high-speed UDMA cards worth a hoot. Its MUCH slower than my older cards for reasons I can't fathom. Its totally unacceptable. If I knew of an internal reader that connected to an internal SATA 6.0Gb/s port I'd go with that. But I don't.

Since I'm going supersonic with my computer upgrade anyway it makes sense to go USB 3.0 with the reader as well so that the UDMA cards can realize their full potential. Those babies are begging to breath!!

I'm getting impatient in my old age and don't like waiting forever to upload pictures. :)

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR DG IF-ED

03/31/2011 06:54:10 PM · #8

Originally posted by DCNUTTER:

What you did was fine and good... its just that there is more to the story than you realized.

I was only setting the record strait about things you could not possibly have known anything about.

hanserik

Nikon D700

03/31/2011 07:07:34 PM · #9

If you really need four 6gb/s esata drives, you should consider a decent RAID hardware card like this.

I haven't paid much attention to the speeds of memory cards lately, are they really so fast that you need USB 3? I see the SanDisk Extreme Pro has a speed rating of 90MB/s, well below the 480MB/s that USB 2 provides...

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR DG IF-ED

03/31/2011 08:27:35 PM · #10

Originally posted by hanserik:

This is my new motherboard:
MSI 890FXA-GD70 AM3 AMD 890FX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard

Like most MBs it supports onboard hardware RAID already.

What makes this one special and is the reason I selected it is that it not only supports 6 X SATA 6GB/s storage devices (I need 4) but it also supports RAID 10 for SATA 6GB/s. Very few boards I found do that, even among the most expensive there are.

As a result my system will be lightning fast on those improvements alone.

UDMA cards are fast enough that a 16Gig card that took 15 minutes or so to upload under eSATA will now take around 5 minutes. That is a major improvement and UDMA cards record HD video smoother than other, slower types.

hanserik

Nikon D700

04/01/2011 10:03:32 PM · #11

A common misconception is that on-board raid controllers are hardware raid controllers. They are not. As soon as the driver for the card is loaded, the CPU takes over and does all calculations for the raid. In your case, for raid 10 it doesn't matter much since there are no calculations to be done, just mapping. But for the more advanced raid levels, a real hardware raid controller card like the one i linked to will give you a significant speed increase. I experienced that myself when going from an onboard raid 5 to a hardware raid 5, the throughput tripled.

I have a suggestion for those to last sata 3 ports: two ssd disks in raid 0 (on which you run the OS), that will make your rig truly shine :)

More on "hardware" and hardware raids: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID#Hardware-based_RAID

04/06/2011 09:14:19 AM · #12

Originally posted by hanserik:

... a real hardware raid controller card like the one i linked to will give you a significant speed increase. I experienced that myself when going from an onboard raid 5 to a hardware raid 5, the throughput tripled.

I have a suggestion for those to last sata 3 ports: two ssd disks in raid 0 (on which you run the OS), that will make your rig truly shine :)

More on "hardware" and hardware raids: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID#Hardware-based_RAID

Thanks for the info and heads up.

You are not the first to suggest ssd. I was just talking with a guy at a PC shop about that yesterday. His suggestion was the same as yours.

Unfortunately, solid state SATA III drives are still very, very expensive for their small size, though specialized for just the OS makes sense. In my case SATA II ssd would make no sense at all. My 4 X 2TB SATA III platter drives cost less than a single 128Gig SATA III ssd.

This is just a guess, but my 4 drive RAIDed SATA III drives, even platter driven, will not be much slower than a 2 drive RAIDed ssd that costs twice as much and maybe even faster than if those ssd drives were only SATA II.

Of course, that will never overcome having your OS run with dedicated drives.

I guess I'll just have to depend on loading common OS functions into some of my 16 Gigs of DDR3-1600 PC3-12800 RAM to speed things up. LOL!!!

Message edited by author 2011-04-06 09:15:56.

MargaretNet

Sony DSC-RX100 VII

04/06/2011 01:51:22 PM · #13

I upgraded my PC last year and got a motherboard that supports 2 USB3 ports (ASUS mobo, ~$120, not expensive). I had not used USB3 till few months later when I could finally buy an external HD that supports USB3 (none was available when I got the mobo). It came with a specialized heavy duty heavy USB cable which I now have to carry around with my tiny lightweight HD! The speed improvement when copying files from the internal HD was 2x at best. Not really a dramatic improvement. Then I decided to get USB 3.0 ExpressCard for my Vaio so I can have USB3 on the laptop when I travel. The ExpressCard slot has never been used so I thought what a neat idea. Again I was disappointed to find out that it actually needed a USB2 port for power, not just the ExpressCard slot. Since Vaio has only 2 USB2 ports and they are close together next to the ExpressCard physically they did not fit together without taking both USB2 ports. I had to give up on this idea. Overall my experience with USB3 has not been good so far :/

04/06/2011 10:52:22 PM · #14

Originally posted by marnet:

... Overall my experience with USB3 has not been good so far :/

I sympathize. You are NOT alone in your disappointment.

USB 3.0 supports about a 5Gb/s data rate transfer protocol. That's so fast that even today it exceeds the abilities of most physical drives, be they ones with spinning platters or solid state!

Most drives you buy today transfer at SATA II protocol... which is 3Gb/s. USB 3.0 is much, much faster than that.

Therefore, to take full advantage of USB 3.0 speeds both the copy-from and copy-to drives need to be SATA III capable... which is 6Gb/s.

The Problem:
If you didn't just buy your drives then chances are that all of your existing internal drives are, at best, SATA II(3Gb/s). If they are older IDE type drives then they are slower than a sluggish snail on a 1,000 mile trip and a waste for USB 3 port usage!

The Problem Worsens:
It gets worse!
Most brand new motherboards commonly available today have only TWO on-board SATA III ports and 2 external USB 3 ports - the only ports capable to taking advantage of USB 3 speeds! Yet many will have up to 8 slower SATA II on-board ports. That doesn't even make any sense.

Its rare for even a really good brand new MB to have an internal USB 3 port. For example, the MB I just bought doesn't.

What Is Needed?:
You need the still fairly rare combination of SATA III drives and/or USB 3 devices with high speed SATA III and/or USB 3 connecting ports.

To have a fully capable external USB 3 backup solution for your computer all drives (both the internal ones being backed up and the ones they are being backed to) have to be SATA III capable and they need to be connected to each other through SATA III internal ports and out through your external USB 3 ports.

My Solution:
I had to buy 4 all-new SATA III capable 2TB drives and scout around to find an MB with 6 on-board SATA III ports in order to make a computer performance upgrade feasible.

The MB wasn't even all that expensive but was absolutely the best solution for me by having 6 on-board SATA III ports, 2 external USB 3 ports, 1 external eSATA port (I have three external eSATA drives) and 1 on-board SATA II connection with the incredibly rare ability to support RAID 10 at SATA III speeds!

Yet that same MB provides an outrageous number of useless USB 2.0 on-board and external ports - TWELVE! Who in the world wants or needs even half that many USB 2 ports anymore? All I use mine for are my mouse and keyboard!

The most expensive MB I saw had only 2 on-board SATA III ports, 2 external USB 3 ports, no eSATA ports and no SATA III RAID support whatsoever. Most MBs I saw were closer to that than to the one I bought.

04/06/2011 11:05:04 PM · #15

I see a lot of comparing specs... that will only get you so far. In most cases, you are not going to get all the spec tells you that you can get.
SATA 6Gb/s is great, but that represents a 750MB/s sustained transfer rate, something no single drive, rotating or solid state, comes near. Even RAID arrays are going to be challenged to take advantage of it, particularly with an on-board, (read software) RAID controller.
As important as sustained throughput are low latency and ability to keep up with multiple data requests, a task where SSDs shine.
USB is great and all, but like software RAID, there is a lot of CPU overhead involved. Keeping high-data-rate devices off of USB, with the exception of occasional=use devices like card readers, is a good practice.
The lesson in all this is to read performance reviews diligently to understand the real-world performance you can expect from a configuration before committing big bucks to it.

04/06/2011 11:22:53 PM · #16

You are absolute right, of course!

That is why I RAIDed all 4 of my internal 6GB/s drives that are connected with SATA III. That's the best performance I can get for the price point.

I only own one USB 3 device so far. It is a 4-bay enclosure I use for off-site storage of my entire data. It only has my old 3Gb/s 1TB drives in it but by maximum drive and RAID striping I can speed backup of 1.8 TB of data down to 6 hours 23 minutes under eSATA. I expect it to be improved another real world 25% or so when I connect it via USB 3. That is almost tolerable! (My USB 3 card reader is on order)

To further help performance in other ways I'm upgrading from a 2.6 dual-core processor to a 3.4 quad-core processor and upgrading from 8 Gigs of DDR2 to 16 gigs of DDR 3 RAM.

Message edited by author 2011-04-06 23:31:22.

04/06/2011 11:50:06 PM · #17

Originally posted by Artifacts:

...I can speed backup of 1.8 TB of data down to 6 hours 23 minutes under eSATA. I expect it to be improved another real world 25% or so when I connect it via USB 3. That is almost tolerable! ...

Use the Microsoft Power Toy SyncToy 2.1, and you'll only ever have to back up the entire structure once; thereafter you only write what's changed.