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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> How do you judge your own photos?
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 03/31/2011 04:28:45 PM · #51
Originally posted by yanko:
That is not to say trying out shots others have done isn't beneficial. You can certainly learn a lot from that. When I entered the Deja Vu II challenge I tried to duplicate Gordon's Fantasia shot. I learned a lot and even got a PB out of it. I can take pride in the fact that I learned a new technique that I can now apply to my own work, but the image itself is a throwaway.


That is to my mind the take away. Use the techniques of others as an exercise, be it Gordon or Weston. Use methods and approaches that are uncomfortable, to stretch your knowledge and comfort zone. Then figure out what part, if any, of those methods work to help the way you work.

Especially in Photoshop, where different methods can get you similar results, learning by yourself is very difficult. As a wise fool once said "There are unknown unknowns" and if it weren't for advice on a particular image I doubt I would have ever have found shifting the black point in selective color, a truly powerful editing tool, hidden away in the bowels of the adjustment cellar. Understanding how others work gives insight into approaches that are hard to stumble upon, and can help you clarify your own vision.
 03/31/2011 04:41:16 PM · #52
I am still in the days of EVERYTHING I SHOOT IS A MASTERPIECE! Until I view it a few times!!! What I've started doing is submitting (as early as I can) comming back and looking at that shot a day later... For some reason, I can see problems with the picture here on DPC that I don't see on my computor??? I know that don't make sense, but it works for me. EXMP, I just re-edited a photo submitted for a up comming challenge. I thought it was the worlds best.. Until I looked at it a couple of times here. Then it looked FLAT ...

I also think that we are influenced by other works, and that it only helps to develop a better eye. Some of my fav challenges are In the style of.. Although I usually stink at it.. the comments and comparisons have helped me in "my own style". I seek advice and input from other photographers as much as I can! Training my eye by what ever means only helps better your own photography!

Also making appropriate critiques on entries has helped me a lot. I feel not qualified to judge others works, but I will put in my humble opinion this looks (something specific) to me... It makes me sit and really look at a photograph, and seeing something unapealing in that photograph makes me "THINK" before I do the same thing. (now I've been really red faced when I've critiqued a great photographer) but, art is subjective.

Well thats my 2 cents for what it's worth!
 03/31/2011 04:46:51 PM · #53
I try to go in assuming all my entries will be mediocre to mid-pack performers. Then I am either satisfied or pleasantly surprised.
03/31/2011 05:06:19 PM · #54
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
selective color, a truly powerful editing tool, hidden away in the bowels of the adjustment cellar.


Funny you should mention that. I was using it earlier on some videos I'm editing in Adobe After Effects. Works well there too. I rarely use it in Photoshop these days but you're right it's pretty handy.
 03/31/2011 05:12:31 PM · #55
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by hihosilver:
Originally posted by yanko:
It is the step I went through in that particular instance because that's what the challenge called for. We all have our own ways of learning. I personally learn more by trial and error than by reading a how to book and that in turn helps me develop my own style. If I simply went out and bought Zack Arias or JoeyL's DVDs then I'd learn how to do it there way which isn't what I want. I can learn how to operate a flash by reading the manual it came with. From there it's experiment, experiment, experiment, most of which never sees the light of day. But that's me.


How do you know when the experiment is done...or when the lesson is learned? Is that measurable?


I hope the experiment never ends. Unless I'm shooting for someone else the only measure is whether or not I'm happy with the end result.


I love it when Richard gets all philosophical! ;-)

Took some digging, but I found this old forum thread where yanko and I were battling over who had the highest average but hadn't won a ribbon. I got the first one between us, but of course he soon passed me up by a mile.


I only have two more than you and my last one was in October of '08. You're up 4 nil since.
 03/31/2011 05:30:58 PM · #56
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by hihosilver:
Originally posted by yanko:
It is the step I went through in that particular instance because that's what the challenge called for. We all have our own ways of learning. I personally learn more by trial and error than by reading a how to book and that in turn helps me develop my own style. If I simply went out and bought Zack Arias or JoeyL's DVDs then I'd learn how to do it there way which isn't what I want. I can learn how to operate a flash by reading the manual it came with. From there it's experiment, experiment, experiment, most of which never sees the light of day. But that's me.


How do you know when the experiment is done...or when the lesson is learned? Is that measurable?


I hope the experiment never ends. Unless I'm shooting for someone else the only measure is whether or not I'm happy with the end result.


I love it when Richard gets all philosophical! ;-)

Took some digging, but I found this old forum thread where yanko and I were battling over who had the highest average but hadn't won a ribbon. I got the first one between us, but of course he soon passed me up by a mile.


I only have two more than you and my last one was in October of '08. You're up 4 nil since.


True, but you stopped being a ribbon whore, I didn't! ;-). Plus, I think I've lapped you in numbers of entries.

I try new things, new subjects, new editing techniques, etc. I agree with you that the experiment is never done.

But, I admit, every challenge I enter, I want to ribbon. Rarely happens, but that's my goal on DPC.

That said, some of my favorite images didn't come close to winning.

There is an attiude around here at times that winning a ribbon or wanting to win a ribbon is some sort of sell out.
 03/31/2011 06:01:12 PM · #57
Originally posted by scarbrd:
There is an attiude around here at times that winning a ribbon or wanting to win a ribbon is some sort of sell out.

...or the Holy Grail.
 03/31/2011 07:21:37 PM · #58
I think it's a guy thing, we don't ask for directions either
 03/31/2011 08:41:11 PM · #59
Hmmmmm...I wouldn't regard wanting a ribbon as a sellout, but rather a way of getting what all artists want...PUBLICITY.
 03/31/2011 09:00:37 PM · #60
Originally posted by hihosilver:

Unless you can find a mentor who knows how to mind meld the vastness of their own experience to their men-tee (is that word?), a true mentor will INSIST and DEMAND that you follow your own path. A good mentor knows that all he/she can ever be is...a sign post.

A good mentor doesn't so much place their own stamp on their student's work, but rather knows how to draw out the gift within the student themselves. A talented artist and a talented teacher aren't necessarily the same thing.

If we stray from the path the sign post points to and are eaten by a troll...well, that's our own fault. ;-)


While this is true, I highly doubt that the "typical" mentor would have lead Pollock towards his ends. As much as the onus is on the mentor to direct things, it is on the shoulders of the student to select a fitting mentor. The unfortunate problem is that to do this, the student must have an idea of where they are going. Don't expect an impressionist to guide you towards abstract.

The problem, where I see it, is that all the members (students) of DPC have not identified a style, and most, upon joining, are without question giving the crown and mantle of mentor to the voters at large. We're all products of this to some extent, that's just how it is.

And, most would probably agree that publicity at the sacrifice of self is selling out. Publicity in and of itself, is not. We each draw that line somewhere in the sand.
 03/31/2011 09:13:49 PM · #61
Hmmmmm...does the possibility exist then not so much to sacrifice the self but to create something greater or beyond the self...to make a contribution in a universal sense that would untimately transcend the current trends and become for lack of a better word...classic?

Really the concept of a mentor is outside the scope of DPC (voters included). DPC is a platform to share and once an image is published takes on a life all it's own outside of our personal boundaries.

I'm sure Godzilla will arrive at any moment to pillage and burn this post. ;-)

03/31/2011 09:30:46 PM · #62
Well, all I mean by sacrificing the self is compromising your ideals for the sake of publicity, whatever they may be.
Hypothetically, if IreneM made a shot like Posthumous (I pick on these two because they are known to most everybody and no other reason) or one of the other more abstract users purely for the sake of publicity and not for sake of experimentation and learning, then I would call that compromising one's self. The same is true in the opposite sense, too.
The only person who knows you're selling out is yourself. To me, that's perhaps worse, not only do you compromise yourself but you bear the burden of it, you and you alone are aware of your emptiness. This also goes back to where I said things get tricky when it comes to determining if your aesthetic is in fact that of DPC or if you are "selling out" per se. Again, people make accusations, but it's impossible to know but for the maker of the piece.

And I would say that it's possible to have mentors via DPC, but that it doesn't inherently support the idea. You sorta need to cobble your own system together, and that's fine. I'm not sure a highly regimented and structured approach would really embody the idea, anyway.
 03/31/2011 09:51:29 PM · #63
.

Message edited by author 2011-03-31 22:13:27.
 03/31/2011 10:29:01 PM · #64
Originally posted by hihosilver:
Hmmmmmm...the possibility also exists that like a flame to a flame the infusion of the Posthumous/IreneM energies would create a new form that goes beyond both of them and may create something remarkable as well where nothing is sacrificed but rather a greater whole is created from which we all may learn and enjoy.

I have more comments on the mentor topic but I've got to go now.

Have a happy evening!


Very true, and I didn't mean for it to sound like I was ruling that option out. Instead, I was more delving at the dangers and negative side of things that it seemed yanko was touching on. As a whole it's been a fun discussion, I think.

As for the OP's question...
I judge my own photos in no concerted way. I judge if I think they are right. Sometimes that means strict adherence to technicals, sometimes it doesn't. Many of the photos I enter are entered to learn something. I use the challenges as exercises in technique and style, so I do try to score well with many of them. In a perfect world, I'd like to see if it's possible to do what hihosilver is describing, and create a juncture between where my aesthetic is tending and the DPC challenge confines. Free study... those are more whimsical. Things I enjoy, things I've done, whatever.

But ultimately, the biggest thing I want to reiterate is that DPC is not the end all be all. Bad scores don't necessarily mean a photo isn't good. They're a sounding board, surely, but not an absolute. There's often a difference between what I think is good and what I think will score well.
But here are some guidelines I use for determining my photo's success in voting (note that this is just conservative, what will score decent. To score exceptionally, you need to transcend some of these typically)
Subject matter- accessible, yet peculiar. Or, the mundane in a very un-mundane way. Not dark. Not DNMC.
Focus- very sharp on subject, completely blurred background to minimize distractions and maximize subject strength
Color- well saturated throughout
Lighting- few or unobtrustive blown areas, dark shadows minimized or used constructively
Sense of tension present
Borders- of a generally subdued nature
This post from Scalvert is also well worth your time if you're questioning how to look at challenges.
 04/01/2011 09:15:51 AM · #65
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
...you and you alone are aware of your emptiness.


Derek,

I like my emptiness...it's a great place to meditate...;-)

Weighing the value of our own images (as well as each others) generates an active discussion certainly!

All good thoughts to you.

-M
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