| Author | Thread |
|
|
03/22/2004 06:51:42 PM · #1 |
When someone gets DQ'd, do the votes from that person also get removed and the average scores recalculated? In the portrait contest, the 6th place person jumped up to 4th while I stayed at 5th.
I don't mind so much, just curious why a person's votes would be removed as well as their submission? |
|
|
|
03/22/2004 07:45:11 PM · #2 |
At a guess I would think maybe those people who had the bare 20% votes in and had voted on that image had their scores scrubbed due to now being under 20%? That could be why some people's scores (and placements) changed and others didnt.
|
|
|
|
03/22/2004 08:03:58 PM · #3 |
|
|
|
03/22/2004 10:35:56 PM · #4 |
That's a bizarre situation. If you haven't already, I'd drop Drew or Langdon an email asking them. It wouldn't make sense that a dq'ed picture would eliminate votes, because if a person doesn't enter, he can still vote.
Click on Help, then "contact" and see if they can help you. |
|
|
|
03/22/2004 10:53:29 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by karmat:
That's a bizarre situation. If you haven't already, I'd drop Drew or Langdon an email asking them. It wouldn't make sense that a dq'ed picture would eliminate votes, because if a person doesn't enter, he can still vote.
Click on Help, then "contact" and see if they can help you. |
Yes, but I think what Moodville is suggesting (and correct me if I am wrong) is that if for example I voted on a bare 20% of submissions, and one of them was the DQ'd picture, which is now eliminated, I have now fallen below 20% and ALL of my votes might now not be counted. This would be a blip in the sea of votes, but the blip could shuffle close entries around each other.
It sounds like a very logical guess to me, even if it turns out to be something entirely different. |
|
|
|
03/22/2004 10:59:20 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by richterrell:
Originally posted by karmat:
That's a bizarre situation. If you haven't already, I'd drop Drew or Langdon an email asking them. It wouldn't make sense that a dq'ed picture would eliminate votes, because if a person doesn't enter, he can still vote.
Click on Help, then "contact" and see if they can help you. |
Yes, but I think what Moodville is suggesting (and correct me if I am wrong) is that if for example I voted on a bare 20% of submissions, and one of them was the DQ'd picture, which is now eliminated, I have now fallen below 20% and ALL of my votes might now not be counted. This would be a blip in the sea of votes, but the blip could shuffle close entries around each other.
It sounds like a very logical guess to me, even if it turns out to be something entirely different. |
except that those votes are thrown out before the contest ends. Hopper is saying that this happened after the DQ, which was clearly after the contest ended. The question is quite valid methinks. |
|
|
|
03/22/2004 11:01:51 PM · #7 |
Actually, I think what they were trying to explain is that if you JUST voted on 20% of the photos. Say that 100 was 20%. You voted on 100 photos. Then one that you voted on gets thrown out after voting ends. Then you've only voted on 99, which is not 20%.
Message edited by author 2004-03-22 23:02:26. |
|
|
|
03/22/2004 11:02:41 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by Pedro:
Originally posted by richterrell:
Originally posted by karmat:
That's a bizarre situation. If you haven't already, I'd drop Drew or Langdon an email asking them. It wouldn't make sense that a dq'ed picture would eliminate votes, because if a person doesn't enter, he can still vote.
Click on Help, then "contact" and see if they can help you. |
Yes, but I think what Moodville is suggesting (and correct me if I am wrong) is that if for example I voted on a bare 20% of submissions, and one of them was the DQ'd picture, which is now eliminated, I have now fallen below 20% and ALL of my votes might now not be counted. This would be a blip in the sea of votes, but the blip could shuffle close entries around each other.
It sounds like a very logical guess to me, even if it turns out to be something entirely different. |
except that those votes are thrown out before the contest ends. Hopper is saying that this happened after the DQ, which was clearly after the contest ended. The question is quite valid methinks. |
I think you misunderstand me - I do not think the votes should be thrown out at all - I just think it is a possibility from a programatic point of view for this to happen.
Surely this is a valid question and I am sure the admins will clear it up. |
|
|
|
03/22/2004 11:23:58 PM · #9 |
| If you read the original question (which i was trying to address) you'll find it has nothing to do with the sub-20% vote-trashing :) |
|
|
|
03/22/2004 11:30:36 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Pedro:
If you read the original question (which i was trying to address) you'll find it has nothing to do with the sub-20% vote-trashing :) |
I did read the original question - I thought that was what we were speculating on; why when a DQ happens some movement happens that does not make sense (i.e., moving from 6th to 4th over someone in 5th who stays put).
I guess the admins are the only ones who will be able to tell us for sure. I still think Moodville might be on to something there, that this might be happening not because a DQ'd person has their votes thrown out, but for another reason altogether. It is all speculation i suppose :-) |
|
|
|
03/22/2004 11:31:06 PM · #11 |
| I think Heather explained it as best as anyone could. |
|
|
|
03/23/2004 12:20:46 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by richterrell:
Originally posted by Pedro:
If you read the original question (which i was trying to address) you'll find it has nothing to do with the sub-20% vote-trashing :) |
I did read the original question - I thought that was what we were speculating on; why when a DQ happens some movement happens that does not make sense (i.e., moving from 6th to 4th over someone in 5th who stays put).
I guess the admins are the only ones who will be able to tell us for sure. I still think Moodville might be on to something there, that this might be happening not because a DQ'd person has their votes thrown out, but for another reason altogether. It is all speculation i suppose :-) |
I'll try one more time :) The picture was DQd after the challenge had ended, therefore those votes had already been trashed. So it's basically irrelevant in the case of why Hopper's pic didn't get bumped up when the #2 pic disappeared. I can only think that Grigrigirl's vote made the difference, or it was a glitch. but the 20% people had already been discounted.
I hear what you're saying - I just don't think they re-calculate the 20% after a DQ if the challenge has ended. Sorry I'm not 'splainin myself well :)
respectfully,
Pedro
Message edited by author 2004-03-23 00:23:22. |
|
|
|
03/23/2004 12:55:13 AM · #13 |
As I understand it (and I could very well be wrong), upon disqualification of a photo from a completed challenge, the results for that challenge are recalculated automatically. All aspects of the calculation are run, including the vote monitoring script and the code enforcing the 20% minimum -- in fact, it would have to be, since no votes are actually removed from the database, just some are ignored in the calculation. Allow me to explain by way of example:
Charlie Cheater is one of exactly 100 photographers to enter a challenge. During that challenge, Vicki Voter votes on exactly 20 entries, including Charlie's. When the challenge ends, Vicki's votes are counted, since she has voted on 20 of 100 entries, or 20%, exactly the minimum required.
After the challenge ends, it is discovered that Charlie's submission was a stolen spot-edited photograph of literal representation of a nude work of art that was taken outside the challenge dates. Charlie is, of course, disqualified, and the challenge results are recalculated in the same way as if Charlie had never entered or had been disqualified before the challenge had ended.
Upon recalculation, Vicki's votes are discarded. She has voted on 19 of 99 entries, of 19.2%, which falls below the 20% minimum required for one's vote to count. Any photographers who had received votes from Vicki would see a slight bump upward or downward in score, depending on the effect of the vote lost.
Again, I am not certain this is what happened... Drew and Langdon are the only ones with access to code, so they are they only ones who can say for sure. I think the score calculation algorighm is Langdon's baby... I'll drop him a note to see what he has to say on this.
-Terry
|
|
|
|
03/23/2004 12:58:17 AM · #14 |
I think the point some people are trying to make Pedro, which makes sense for sure (may or not be the actual case) is that ...
A competition with exactly 100 photos in it, you vote on only 20, thus JUST making the 20%
1) contest ends
2) Below 20% votes get trashed
3) Someone get's DQ'd
as a side effect to 3) if one of the 20 you voted on was DQ'd
4) You have now voted on 19 out of 99, which is BELOW the 20% mark (actually 19.19%) so all your votes are now trashed. As a result it may alter other people's final score.
If the person happened to have voted the pic in position 4 high and the one in position 5 low, then removing those votes might be just enough to change the placing.
Makes perfect mathematical sense, IF votes get trashed after the initial trash if things get DQ'd.
|
|
|
|
03/23/2004 01:09:27 AM · #15 |
| I think Peter understands, he's just having a difficult time conveying that he doesn't think they recalculate the 20% after a DQ. |
|
|
|
03/23/2004 01:12:51 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by hopper:
When someone gets DQ'd, do the votes from that person also get removed and the average scores recalculated? In the portrait contest, the 6th place person jumped up to 4th while I stayed at 5th.
I don't mind so much, just curious why a person's votes would be removed as well as their submission? |
4th place7.023
5th place7.022
0.001 difference
Every vote counts. |
|
|
|
03/23/2004 01:13:40 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by garrywhite2:
I think Peter understands, he's just having a difficult time conveying that he doesn't think they recalculate the 20% after a DQ. |
yeah what he said :) |
|
|
|
03/23/2004 01:14:47 AM · #18 |
My point is that they would HAVE to. As I mentioned before, no votes are "trashed" at the time of calculation, or indeed, at any point in the process. Every vote that has ever been made is in the database, whether it was counted or not. Some are just ignored at the point of calculation. This is a subtle distinction, but an important one. First, it makes a DQ reversible. Second, and most relevant to our conversation here, it would mean that the filters that ignore malicious voters and those who voted less than 20% would *HAVE TO* be integral to the calculation algorithm... which would mean there are effectively run every time the results are recalculated. If they weren't, then upon recalculation ALL votes would be counted, even those that were previously ignored.
-Terry
|
|
|
|
03/23/2004 01:17:42 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
... After the challenge ends, it is discovered that Charlie's submission was a stolen spot-edited photograph of literal representation of a nude work of art that was taken outside the challenge dates. |
And he had the audacity to put a copyright notice in the corner! |
|
|
|
03/23/2004 01:18:30 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
... After the challenge ends, it is discovered that Charlie's submission was a stolen spot-edited photograph of literal representation of a nude work of art that was taken outside the challenge dates. |
And he had the audacity to put a copyright notice in the corner! |
Too funny! Thanks for the humor. |
|
|
|
03/23/2004 01:18:45 AM · #21 |
in which case all of my aimless babble was for naught.  |
|
|
|
03/23/2004 02:47:53 AM · #22 |
To be fair, every entry below the DQ'd entry should simply move up one place.
P.S. But then, who ever said life was fair.
Message edited by author 2004-03-23 02:49:54. |
|
|
|
03/23/2004 03:36:51 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Second, and most relevant to our conversation here, it would mean that the filters that ignore malicious voters and those who voted less than 20% would *HAVE TO* be integral to the calculation algorithm... which would mean there are effectively run every time the results are recalculated. |
Yeah, the implementation is broken. It doesn't really matter why. |
|
|
|
03/23/2004 05:16:40 AM · #24 |
I agree that the algorithm used to recalculate after a DQ ought to take into account the 20% issue such that the 20% is STILL calculated on the ORIGINAL number of entries into the challenge rather than the new number post DQ - ensuring that those votes which were counted originally are still counted and those that weren't aren't.
|
|
|
|
03/23/2004 07:03:19 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by Kavey:
I agree that the algorithm used to recalculate after a DQ ought to take into account the 20% issue such that the 20% is STILL calculated on the ORIGINAL number of entries into the challenge rather than the new number post DQ - ensuring that those votes which were counted originally are still counted and those that weren't aren't. |
Does that mean that if entries are disqualified during voting, that should be ignored as well?
-Terry
|
|
Home -
Challenges -
Community -
League -
Photos -
Cameras -
Lenses -
Learn -
Help -
Terms of Use -
Privacy -
Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 09/24/2025 02:33:41 PM EDT.
