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01/27/2011 01:57:40 PM · #51 |
Of course! My collection of mysterious black obelisks is in the attic! I'll get them down tonight.
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01/27/2011 01:59:52 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Of course! My collection of mysterious black obelisks is in the attic! I'll get them down tonight. |
Drat!! You stole my idea! Now there are going to be hoards of mysterious black obelisk shots!! :(
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01/27/2011 02:25:57 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Drat!! You stole my idea! Now there are going to be hoards of mysterious black obelisk shots!! :( |
If they are hoarded, we won't see them; but if the clamoring hordes get ahold of this idea, the sky's the limit... (Sorry, Arthur!)
R. |
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01/27/2011 02:29:53 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Now there are going to be hoards of mysterious black obelisk shots!! :( |
As I previously mentioned, I have them all hoarded in my attic (I keep them in a black hole, so they don't spoil and smell up the house), so there's no worry of others entering that idea.
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01/27/2011 02:34:59 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
*snip* I keep them in a black hole, so they don't spoil and smell up the house |
obelisks smell?
too bad i can't enter a 2010 shot for sentinel. i've got one that guarantees at least a spiffy point.
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01/27/2011 02:37:46 PM · #56 |
I've thought about this overnight. When voting, I will pay attention to the appropriateness of the subject for the challenge. I will be very liberal in interpretation. If an image in any way meets any of the definitions or synonyms of "Sentinel", it will be great. Then, I'll assess the technical and artistic merits of the image and vote accordingly. What I will NOT do is deduct any points for deviation from the title "Sentinel". That's just me. I think the challenge description wording was meant to be a figurative reference. I'm certain the words are posing an unintended constaint. If this is not true, and all images are required to be titled, "Sentinel", then a SC representative should speak up. If we hear nothing, then any title should be accepted without voting penalty.
eta: grammar correction.
Message edited by author 2011-01-27 14:39:06. |
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01/27/2011 02:45:23 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
I think the challenge description wording was meant to be a figurative reference. |
I understand what you mean, and I will follow a similar pattern when voting, I just find it humorous that we pretty much have to interpret "definitive" as "figurative" to be reasonable. ;)
- Justin
Message edited by author 2011-01-27 14:45:32. |
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01/27/2011 02:47:44 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
If this is not true, and all images are required to be titled, "Sentinel", then a SC representative should speak up. If we hear nothing, then any title should be accepted without voting penalty. |
Richard, it's NOT a requirement, it's just part of the description. It's not a topic SC can, or will, speak up on most likely. It just is what it is :-( It's a question of how literally the voters decide to take this.
I have titled mine "(adjective) Sentinel", so I'm willing to venture out of that zone after all. In the end I doubt it will matter. It would be wise to have the word in the title somewhere, I believe, but I really don't think, upon reflection, that multi-word titles that include "sentinel" are gonna get DNMC'd by many, if any at all.
R. |
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01/27/2011 03:09:49 PM · #59 |
So...
Our entries are supposed to be titled "Sentinel".
I see. |
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01/27/2011 03:21:30 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by hahn23:
If this is not true, and all images are required to be titled, "Sentinel", then a SC representative should speak up. If we hear nothing, then any title should be accepted without voting penalty. |
Richard, it's NOT a requirement, it's just part of the description. It's not a topic SC can, or will, speak up on most likely. It just is what it is :-( It's a question of how literally the voters decide to take this.
I have titled mine "(adjective) Sentinel", so I'm willing to venture out of that zone after all. In the end I doubt it will matter. It would be wise to have the word in the title somewhere, I believe, but I really don't think, upon reflection, that multi-word titles that include "sentinel" are gonna get DNMC'd by many, if any at all.
R. |
I just think the unfortunate and possibly unintended wording in the challenge description gives too many an excuse to hand out votes of "1" for a title, rather than assessing an image for its challenge appropriateness and technical and artistic merit. I hear what you're saying, but the SC could improve the voting environment by speaking to the challenge description. In another challenge, my average score just fell by 0.75 over 20 votes. It's a hostile crowd. We don't need to give voters an excuse to avoid looking at images. I think the SC has an important role in encouraging fair and objective voting. |
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01/27/2011 03:47:08 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by hahn23:
If this is not true, and all images are required to be titled, "Sentinel", then a SC representative should speak up. If we hear nothing, then any title should be accepted without voting penalty. |
Richard, it's NOT a requirement, it's just part of the description. It's not a topic SC can, or will, speak up on most likely. It just is what it is :-( It's a question of how literally the voters decide to take this. |
I really have no idea if this was just a syntactical error or intentionally ultra-restrictive, though I note that there is no "Extra Rule" specifying that failure to use that specific one-word title will result in a DQ, as is usually the case when we want part of the description to be taken literally.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm going to interpret it as careless copying/pasting of someone's challenge suggestion, and in any event my entry will not be entitled "Sentinel." ("Sorry" if that violates anonymity -- hopefully at least one other person will dare to follow suit.)
I think that voters who insist on a strictly literalist reading of the challenge title or description (which often conflict!) are as dangerous in their way as fundamentalists anywhere, who seem to believe that the only goal of the challenges is to achieve an "accurate" ranking of the entries, rather than to inspire people to attempt to express creativity. In this case I would consider any image which conveys the concept of a sentinel to meet the challenge description, regardless of title.
Here is a recent photo of mine which is titled with an almost identical synonym, but which would fail the literalist reading ... :-(
Message edited by author 2011-01-27 15:48:08. |
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01/27/2011 03:50:31 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by hahn23:
If this is not true, and all images are required to be titled, "Sentinel", then a SC representative should speak up. If we hear nothing, then any title should be accepted without voting penalty. |
Richard, it's NOT a requirement, it's just part of the description. It's not a topic SC can, or will, speak up on most likely. It just is what it is :-( It's a question of how literally the voters decide to take this. |
I really have no idea if this was just a syntactical error or intentionally ultra-restrictive, though I note that there is no "Extra Rule" specifying that failure to use that specific one-word title will result in a DQ, as is usually the case when we want part of the description to be taken literally.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm going to interpret it as careless copying/pasting of someone's challenge suggestion, and in any event my entry will not be entitled "Sentinel." ("Sorry" if that violates anonymity -- hopefully at least one other person will dare to follow suit.)
I think that voters who insist on a strictly literalist reading of the challenge title or description (which often conflict!) are as dangerous in their way as fundamentalists anywhere, who seem to believe that the only goal of the challenges is to achieve an "accurate" ranking of the entries, rather than to inspire people to attempt to express creativity. In this case I would consider any image which conveys the concept of a sentinel to meet the challenge description, regardless of title.
Here is a recent photo of mine which is titled with an almost identical synonym, but which would fail the literalist reading ... :-(
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Thanks for clarifying this. It is much appreciated. |
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01/27/2011 03:52:01 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I have titled mine "(adjective) Sentinel" |
As long as your adjective is "Definitive" you're probably still safe. ;)
Message edited by author 2011-01-27 15:52:47. |
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01/27/2011 03:53:37 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Thanks for clarifying this. It is much appreciated. |
Just remember it's only my opinion, and not some official edict. And based on my average score around here, I think the acronym YMMV would apply here if anywhere ... ;-) |
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01/27/2011 04:07:39 PM · #65 |
I am amazed that this discussion totally ignores what  EL-ROI says as the originator of the topic! To me it is clear that ALL entries MUST BE called "Sentinel" and involve just one object as sentinel.
Is there an assumption that most voters never read what is posted in these forums? I thought the ratio of lurkers to posters is usually very high. Is there any statistics for forum participation? |
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01/27/2011 04:16:08 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by marnet:
I am amazed that this discussion totally ignores what EL-ROI says as the originator of the topic! To me it is clear that ALL entries MUST BE called "Sentinel" and involve just one object as sentinel.
Is there an assumption that most voters never read what is posted in these forums? I thought the ratio of lurkers to posters is usually very high. Is there any statistics for forum participation? |
Originally posted by EL-ROI:
If you do a photo search by title on this site for the word "Sentinel" you get three pages of entries. Everyone and their uncle has a shot titled "Sentinel"! Your challenge is to take the definitive shot called "Sentinel"...
Special Rules: your shot must have the word "Sentinel" in it's title. |
Hahn and General type a lot, but don't read much. They're all caught up in their ratio of fingers to eyes. :-D |
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01/27/2011 04:23:01 PM · #67 |
“Common sense and good nature will do a lot to make the pilgrimage of life not too difficult”
William Somerset Maugham quotes (English short-story Writer, Novelist and Playwright, 1874-1965) |
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01/27/2011 04:26:28 PM · #68 |
"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand."
Homer Simpson |
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01/27/2011 04:46:03 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Hahn and General type a lot, but don't read much. They're all caught up in their ratio of fingers to eyes. :-D |
Sorry, I read a lot, but I think that post was yesterday, and the debate was still going on when I got here today ... had I written (or edited) the description I would then have tried to remove any ambiguity by saying "... take the definitive picture illustrating this conceept and entitle it 'Sentinel'."
Fortunately, the photo I plan can use that title as well.
Note that the "Special Rules" were not put into effect for this challenge, though they may have been intended. In order for us to enforce a "Special Rule" it should be flagged as such at the top of the challenge summary.
Message edited by author 2011-01-27 16:48:27. |
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01/27/2011 05:03:38 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by marnet:
Is there an assumption that most voters never read what is posted in these forums? I thought the ratio of lurkers to posters is usually very high. Is there any statistics for forum participation? |
I said: "most voters never read what is posted in these forums" - VOTERS, not POSTERS ! (even if in small percentage posters = voters I did not mean contributors to this thread) |
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01/27/2011 06:32:40 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by marnet:
Is there an assumption that most voters never read what is posted in these forums? I thought the ratio of lurkers to posters is usually very high. Is there any statistics for forum participation? |
Yes, that's a fair assumption. Experience has shown us, time and again, that in-thread "clarifications" of challenge intent seem to have little effect on voters. Or, for that matter, on submitters.
R. |
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01/27/2011 06:39:39 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Or, for that matter, on submitters.
R. |
:) That's my conclusion too |
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01/27/2011 06:52:45 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by marnet:
Is there an assumption that most voters never read what is posted in these forums? I thought the ratio of lurkers to posters is usually very high. Is there any statistics for forum participation? |
Yes, that's a fair assumption. Experience has shown us, time and again, that in-thread "clarifications" of challenge intent seem to have little effect on voters. Or, for that matter, on submitters.
R. |
I might take a chance and attach a title which varies from the single word "Sentinel", because now we know it's not a special rule requirement. Those who don't read the forums, nor read the challenge description were not the problem. My concern was those who read the forums and reached the conclusion they were supposed to vote DNMC on the misleading information, like "... ALL entries MUST BE called "Sentinel" and involve just one object as sentinel. " It's not true. It's not necessary to more narrowly define the challenge than was intended by the challenge description.
Of course, maybe I'm just throwing a curve ball. |
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01/27/2011 06:59:10 PM · #74 |
Not too difficult to add a yellow flag stating "Title does not have to be Sentinel."
Also not too difficult after looking at the images and realizing at least half aren't titled Sentinel for a voter to figure it out. Hopefully. |
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01/28/2011 01:26:52 AM · #75 |
Another "sentinel" Makes memories flood my brain. wow! those were the days....give it a listen...
Wishbone Ash
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tna0Mmu1XlI
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJN-wrtuWOg&feature=related
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB6fCuxGvAw&feature=related
Some more "Sentinel" music for your ears....let it inspire you to go out and take the most magnificent "Sentinel" image.
Mike Oldfield
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5M46Q4POEA
Judas Priest
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLMuv5dc-rQ
VNV Nation
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUdYhkgPfcc
THE SENTINEL
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5BFvV_Ep1k
And here's a track...just a very nice track...that has nothing to do with a sentinal...but it's such a nice song and the lyrics are so wonderful.
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS3p05KX9L0&feature=related
Message edited by author 2011-01-28 01:51:34.
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