Leave the guns alone!!! - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

01/12/2011 08:28:16 AM · #176

Originally posted by Mick:

As for oaths, members of the armed forces do not swear to serve the President. They take an oath to defend the Constitution and to obey the lawful orders of the President. In other words, they swear to serve their country. I know that because I took that oath myself some years ago. But what if the President is giving unlawful orders? What if he's trampling the Constitution? Soldiers are not robots. They are required to think. They are not required to follow unlawful orders.

As I noted earlier, the Constitution treats you as a treasonous enemy of the state if you raise war against the nation. You cannot have it both ways. There is no "decree" required by the president to establish you as treasonous, it is your war against the nation that defines it. It slices you just as you use it to defend yourself.

FireBird

01/12/2011 09:05:36 AM · #177

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Mick:
I will say now however that virtually all of the 'controls' and prohibitions enacted to date are unconstitutional....

Wow â�� the bizarre reasoning, declarations of unconstitutionality and brainwashing, distrust of government, paranoia over the future... all you need now is a rambling screed about grammar.

Proceed ol great one! You would be uniquely qualified.

FireBird

01/12/2011 09:12:13 AM · #178

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by Mick:
So, for the sake of the PC liberal idiots out there, of course I was only kidding.

What are you calling me and Brennan an idiot for? Don't be such an asshole.

You mean you are a PC liberal? Rather than a run of the mill liberal?
Wonder if there are PC assholes?

MelonMusketeer

Nikon D7000

Nikon MF 50mm f/1.4

01/12/2011 10:47:10 AM · #179

Maybe it's time to divvy up the nation again, gun toters one half, and ban all guns and weapons in the other half.
Just Plinkin'

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

01/12/2011 10:48:44 AM · #180

Originally posted by docpjv:

You guns-for-men fanatics, do want every man and woman and child to have the right to own whatever weapon? Oh? Not everybody? So, who are you to decide who may who or may not? Who are you to decide?

Everyone carries on about a single incident that had a special person being shot. Why not the same reaction every time someone is shot? Shot in America, shot in South America, shot in Africa, shot in the Middle East, shot in Eastern Europe...

People with guns can kill and does. Guns-for-all societies have more murders using guns than societies without guns. Gun control is a word, applying gun control something that still needs to be discovered in a world of savages. As a dreamer, I would live to see a day of no weapons, none, in civilian hands.

Interesting to study the per capita killings categorized in classifications of weapons or methods of choice. My hypothesis will be guns-for-all societies will have more killings in each category and methods than countries that prohibit gun ownership. . I think personally gun users for any reason have a lower value for life than any civilized country where guns are controlled and ownership is prohibited. Murder in America is, like in my own country, a daily, non-news event. A gun killing in Korea brings every body to a standstill.

I would rather become a monk than become pert of a people who has the genetic short circuit that prompts the need to MUST HAVE a gun. I think any one who defends the right for ALL to carry a gun must be a very sick puppy.

Doc, come on buddy.. You know we're not arguing to put a gun into the hands of every 2 year old.. (Actually I did argue that a bit back, but if you'll look - you'll see I noted that it was ad absurbium..)

In any case, there is no "genetic short circuit" that prompts a need for a gun.... If I lived in a vacuum, where the idiots and the malicious didn't exist, or did have guns, then I'd feel very little need for my handgun (I'd still keep a rifle or two, as they seem to be a useful way to feed myself).. But until that day, I think what you saying is somewhat equivalent to me suggesting that you should go ahead and go into a bar, where fistfights happen every hour on the hour, with your hands tied behind your back... Seems like a pretty bad idea doesn't it? Why should you expect that people should just happily go make themselves easy targets?

citymars

Nikon D700

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

01/12/2011 10:53:52 AM · #181

Originally posted by Melethia:

And yet I still cannot take pictures at a mall in the US. Or in downtown LA unless I'm standing in the road. Those camera thingies are incredibly dangerous....

Good point.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

01/12/2011 11:05:19 AM · #182

Originally posted by citymars:

Originally posted by Melethia:
And yet I still cannot take pictures at a mall in the US. Or in downtown LA unless I'm standing in the road. Those camera thingies are incredibly dangerous....

Good point.

It's apples and oranges, though. The issue with the malls is a private-property one: mall ownership chooses to ban photography on their premises. They have a number of reasons for doing so. It's been this way as long as I can remember. As an architectural photographer in Southern California I photographed a hell of a lot of malls, and we ALWAYS had to clear with mall security before shooting.

R.

jagar

Samsung Galaxy S9/S9+

Sony Sonnar FE 2.8 35mm ZA

01/12/2011 11:18:00 AM · #183

Originally posted by coryboehne:

Unless of course everybody else had there hands tied behind there backs, then there would never be any fistfights on the hour every hour, just look else were, it would be difficult do down a drink though.
I spent the first eighteen years of my life in England, with all the American TV we get over there and other American influences i always thought that culturally we were quite close, when i hear about gun law & heath care i'm always a bit surprised at the actual cultural gap between Europe and the states. Anyway i'm not judging, cultural differences are fine, its just an observation.

In France and most probably England if the government were to announce that everybody who wanted a gun could have a gun, im pretty sure there would be huge demonstrations and who ever was in power wouldn't be for long. And as for the heath care thing goes, now that doesn't even bare thinking about.

shutterpuppy

Sony Alpha a7

Canon FD 70-210mm f/4.0 MF

01/12/2011 12:08:29 PM · #184

Originally posted by Mick:

Actually, it's more humane to hunt with a semi-auto. What hunters strive for is a quick, clean kill. Ideally, the first shot kills the animal instantly and it never has to suffer. Unfortunately, it doesn't always turn out that way and a second shot is needed. The faster a hunter can deliver that second shot the less the animal has to suffer. Fumbling around reloading while an animal is in pain is a bad thing.

So . . . it's semiautomatic rifles or a single-shot, no-clip, fumble in your pocket to find another bullet firearm? No bolt-action, internal clip rifles (like me, my siblings and our father use and have used for deer and elk)? No lever-action rifles like my father, grandfather and grandmother (yep, that's right) used to hunt the same back in their day? And I suppose that to be truly "humane," not only do you "need" a semiautomatic rifle, but will need a 20-30+ round magazine to go with it, just in case the first 6-10 bullets don't quite get the job done.

Of course the single-shot, bolt-action, no-clip, keep the second shot in your shirt pocket for quick reload, if necessary, hunting rifle that was my father's favorite sure did seem to do a great job of keeping meat on the table. But perhaps my Reagan-loving, Montana-cattle-ranching, Korean-War-vet father was just too much of a liberal to understand the finer points of modern hunting technique.

Mick, I don't believe that even you buy your own bullshit, but perhaps if you feel you need a semiautomatic rifle to hunt with, you should take up fishing.

Message edited by author 2011-01-12 12:19:10.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

01/12/2011 12:12:15 PM · #185

Originally posted by Mick:

Ideally, the first shot kills the animal instantly and it never has to suffer. Unfortunately, it doesn't always turn out that way and a second shot is needed. The faster a hunter can deliver that second shot the less the animal has to suffer. Fumbling around reloading while an animal is in pain is a bad thing.

Perhaps fumbling around with your powder horn is a bad idea ... however, I've heard of this wonderful new invention called "bolt-action" which allows you to reload and fire within less than one second -- probably faster than you can assess whether your first shot was lethal. And some guy named Winchester is trying to market a new-fangled gizmo (I think he calls it "lever-action") which is even faster ... ;-)

citymars

Nikon D700

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/12/2011 12:18:50 PM · #186

If you'll pardon another comic take on the subject:

Fox News Reports No Link Between Matches, Gasoline and Fire
The Fox News Channel today attempted to bust what it called a "mainstream media myth" by reporting that there was no link between matches, gasoline and fire.
Story.

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

01/12/2011 12:54:57 PM · #187

OK! I'm convinced! I'm going to apply for my very own gun today! I guess I never realized how many people have them and I sure don't want to be the only one without one. I can sell my camera gear in exchange. And it could be very useful on chronic headache days! Well, at least that one time anyway!

Apple iPhone 5

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

01/12/2011 01:02:53 PM · #188

I was wondering today, are people who own handguns in the US allowed to carry them around with them? - Like, if I was walking around a shopping mall, would I see people with gun in holsters?

And what happens when they go into a bar and get drunk, do they have to leave their guns at the door? - Surely having a gun in your pocket isn't such a good idea after 7 or 8 whiskeys...

Message edited by author 2011-01-12 13:03:05.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

01/12/2011 01:04:49 PM · #189

In Arizona, you can carry a weapon either concealed or openly without a special license or permit.

jagar

Samsung Galaxy S9/S9+

Sony Sonnar FE 2.8 35mm ZA

01/12/2011 01:10:42 PM · #190

Originally posted by GeneralE:

In Arizona, you can carry a weapon either concealed or openly without a special license or permit.

Bloody Hell.

citymars

Nikon D700

01/12/2011 01:11:21 PM · #191

Originally posted by FocusPoint:

These are the top 10 accidents that could land you 6 feet under.
8. Firearm Discharge
~1,150 Deaths / Year

I'm curious as to where you got this statistic. It doesn't gibe with this statement: "In 2005, 75% of the 10,100 homicides committed using firearms in the United States were committed using handguns." (source)

I also read that "Firearms are the second most frequent cause of death overall for Americans ages 15 to 24." (source)

Originally posted by FocusPoint:

By the way, as you will see if you research on it, lawful gun owners are the nicest people around with exception of one or two...

I'm very curious to find what research supports this!

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

01/12/2011 01:17:49 PM · #192

Originally posted by citymars:

Originally posted by FocusPoint:
These are the top 10 accidents that could land you 6 feet under.
8. Firearm Discharge
~1,150 Deaths / Year

I'm curious as to where you got this statistic. It doesn't gibe with this statement: "In 2005, 75% of the 10,100 homicides committed using firearms in the United States were committed using handguns." (source)

I also read that "Firearms are the second most frequent cause of death overall for Americans ages 15 to 24." (source)

I think you're having problems comparing numbers because homocide and accidental death are separate categories.

Apparently the mere existence of guns in the environment leads to the death of about 1000 people/year, completely aside from the actions of any criminals, citizens defending themselves, or homocidal wackos ...

Strikeslip

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

01/12/2011 01:20:26 PM · #193

Originally posted by jagar:

Originally posted by GeneralE:
In Arizona, you can carry a weapon either concealed or openly without a special license or permit.

Bloody Hell.

When I was last visiting down in Columbus Ohio, there were signs on the doors of some buildings, such as the convention centre, saying no guns allowed inside, LOL!

Message edited by author 2011-01-12 13:20:44.

shutterpuppy

Sony Alpha a7

Canon FD 70-210mm f/4.0 MF

01/12/2011 01:43:42 PM · #194

Originally posted by JH:

I was wondering today, are people who own handguns in the US allowed to carry them around with them? - Like, if I was walking around a shopping mall, would I see people with gun in holsters?

There is a segment of the gun-lobby that takes the view the the Constitutional protection extends to the point that the state should not be able to restrict someone from carrying a firearm in public as long as the firearm is not concealed. This is called "open-carry" and has a small, if stridently vocal following. Here is a link to a website associated with the lobbying group: OpenCarry.org

In the small town in Indiana where I went to law school, there was one well-known resident to ascribed to this philosophy and could always be seen sporting a handgun on his hip in a full-coverage holster.

LoudDog

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

01/12/2011 02:13:38 PM · #195

Originally posted by JH:

This is a state law level thing. The two states I've lived in recently (AZ and WA) are open carry states. there is no law preventing me from openly carrying a firearm unconcealed. In WA, if I want to carry concealed I have apply for a permit, which comes with a background check and a $50 fee. In AZ you use to have to take 8 hours of training to carry concealed but it sounds like that went away?

In AZ, once and awhile you'll see someone carrying openly. More likely out of town, very frequent when you are out hiking. In WA I've yet to see someone open carry in 4 years here. I heard if you did, people will call the police or forest ranger and even though you are well within the law you'd be hassled.

Private establishments have the right to not allow weapons. You will often see signs on a entry door saying no firearms allowed. There was a big hub bub here in WA because Starbucks does not have that little sign and the people that frequent starbucks weren't real happy about that.