how to deal with uninvited photographers.

01/04/2011 01:14:25 PM · #126

Originally posted by RobertCockroachBlair:

...I'm a consumer. I am also an advocate, participant, and publicist of many public events that hire (or purchace) photographic works by freelance people. I am certain that people that I know will think four or five times before hiring anyone who supported the author's lies and slanderous behavior towards a person of proven integrity and ethics.

Wow, you sound like a really important pirate actor. Can I be your friend? Please don't make me walk the plank!

Edit to add... I am Batman! The dark hero, here to rescue this thread!

Message edited by author 2011-01-04 13:16:17.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

01/04/2011 01:22:47 PM · #127

Originally posted by RobertCockroachBlair:

The bride asked Byron to be there and shoot pictures. It was, admittedly, on my suggestion that she contact him since she was sincerely concerned with expencses. Byron was, indeed, the friend of the Mad of Honor. I know them both. I've known Byron for several years. I will testify to his professionalism from MANY encounters with him. I am a professional pirate performer and the subject of many photographers (I guess we're colorful characters by nature and attract photograpers as flowers attract bees LOL ). I also got to know Byron on a personal basis. He is no "rude" or "inappropriate" person.....not in the least. I've watched him work. He worked his magic at our wedding two months ago. He is a worthy person who does not deserve the ridiculous lies that were slanderously spewed by the author of the thread. He was not only requested to be there, he was asked to shoot the wedding for free....which he delicately declined with all the understanding and grace that I have come to admire in Byron. Again, it was at my suggestion that he be contacted by the bride. The assistant to the eventually hired from Craiglist photographer, slandered Byron and lied to the hired photographer about what Byron might have said. Note: I was there...also, I've known Byron for quite some time on two levels. If, indeed, Byron was crossing some arbitrary established secret photographer's code of ethics by using an umbrella to difuse the flash in an environment that seems to have called for, such a matter could have been addressed easily and without issue by the parties involved. No such conversation took place. That is the problem. The person "in charge" of the photographic record of the wedding chose not to deal with the "problem". Instead, he slandered Byron on this posting board and incited the lunitic fringe to go to Byron's website and attack him there. Sadly, a man who is gentle in nature and sincere in his emotional posture, was indeed, attacked and further dragged through the mud and sludge that apparently is the fruit of the people who read this posting board. I found that unbearable and could not stand by and see a man of Byron's character and gentle nature slandered and attacked by such filth. That is the motivation for me to come here. I am not a photographic professional and am unaware of some of the protocols of the trade. That is why I thanked Brennan for pointing out the issue to me without the flame of antagonistic ferver. I am sincere in thanking him for his education and his beneficial position.

What I find sad is that 1) the author was chicken shit enough to not directly, and appropriately, address the issue with Byron; and 2)That people accepted the lies as truth so easily and readily without any shred of challenge or reasonable question to the truthfullness of the slanderous statements made about Byron.
So, yes, I am a registered member of this board.
Also, I am more than real...I'm a consumer. I am also an advocate, participant, and publicist of many public events that hire (or purchace) photographic works by freelance people. I am certain that people that I know will think four or five times before hiring anyone who supported the author's lies and slanderous behavior towards a person of proven integrity and ethics.

LOL, no offense, but I'm not convinced.. Also, just to be fair, you have in this single post managed to:

1. insinuate that DPC'ers are "filth" and that "our fruit" is apparently mud and sludge..
2. Called OP a "chicken shit" which is actually much further than our "lunatic fringe" ever referred to your friend..
3. Threatened to blackball anybody who has shown sympathy or given advice to the OP.
(seriously, this is for you on those points....)

and on the other side of the fence:
4. Assured us that Byron is of a gentle and delicate nature, who is both a friend and professional contact of yours..
5. Assured us again, that Byron is a "Man who is gentle in nature and sincere in his emotional posture" of great character and gentle in nature, truly a person of proven integrity and ethics, who would never do anything wrong, to anyone, ever... Really, that reads more like a tort than an honest statement.. And I do not believe this for one second... NO-ONE is actually all of those things, I'm pretty sure even Mother Theresa had her moments...
6. Told us that you are an actor, a marketer, a publicist, and a friend of the "accused"... Basically you've given me four reasons to distrust anything you say.

*shrug* I've wasted too much time on this post anyway, but seriously, what are you playing at? Are you just jealous that you didn't get any hate mail today, so you're trying to work up someone to flame you a bit?

ETA: If this guy is such a friend and skilled photographer, why don't you have any REALLY good pictures on your profile?? I'm confused..

Message edited by author 2011-01-04 15:42:41.

kawesttex

Apple iPhone 11 Pro

01/04/2011 01:30:07 PM · #128

Originally posted by RobertCockroachBlair:

Byron was, indeed, the friend of the Mad of Honor.

This may be part of the problem! (bold for ease)

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

01/04/2011 01:33:26 PM · #129

The way I see this all going down is,

punk_kaos posted to his colleagues, here at DPC. The 'accused' got his colleagues from a local Pirate site involved.

Now we're gearing up for a full-on battle between DPChallenge.com and PirateActors.com.

As Batman, I'm calling for truce between the sites, so that we can unite against the real enemy,

Art Roflmao!

Apple iPhone 5

01/04/2011 01:41:37 PM · #130

hmm... Although I'm better at playing a Pirate, for this purpose I'll gladly take on the role of Ninja.

May battle commence!

RobertCockroachBlair

01/04/2011 01:42:59 PM · #131

"shrug* I've wasted too much time on this post anyway, but seriously, what are you playing at? Are you just jealous that you didn't get any hate mail today, so you're trying to work up someone to flame you a bit?

Oh, and your spelling is pretty atrocious, I'd suggest using spell check when you want to look smart and use big words like "expenses"...

ETA: If this guy is such a friend and skilled photographer, why don't you have any good pictures on your profile?? I'm confused..

Message edited by author 2011-01-04 13:26:49."
You are absolutely right, my spelling is atrocious. I use spellcheck as often as I can, but rely upon an old memory far too often.
As to my credentials, I only offer my name. You may do the research if you question my statements.
As to my credibility, I only offer the truth. If you question it, then investigate on your own. I challenge you to do so and not accept mine, or the author's words. Find out the facts of the matter yourself and then draw judgment. I will stand by my words, opinions, and views. If I am wrong, prove it. I have no fear of your research. On the other hand, the author attributes the comments that Byron (supposedly) made to his assistants when challenged. Why not seek the truth if your are skeptical? Why not look into it? I may be full of bull....but, my opinions are drawn from what I read on this thread about your posting board and those who blandly accepted statements as truth. I ask you to look into the matter and judge for yourself. YOu don't have to accept my words, but don't accept the lies told about a person of integrity without question.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

01/04/2011 01:43:52 PM · #132

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

...

Now we're gearing up for a full-on battle between DPChallenge.com and PirateActors.com.

...

Heheh, I think this will go poorly for the poor pirates..

As I see it they're a bunch of actors, while we're actually genuine, real, crazy ass challenge photographers...

Apple iPhone 5

01/04/2011 01:47:30 PM · #133

Arrrrr! The pirates have launched the first volley...

Now where's Art? - We need a Navy man in here, us Ninjas are no good at seafaring..

01/04/2011 01:50:29 PM · #134

Originally posted by RobertCockroachBlair:

I've seen photographic evidence... What more should I need exactly? While I'll never know the truth about this situation, I do know that two chiefs in a tribe is a sure recipe for disaster... Or should I say two Captains on one ship.. So, in short someone screwed up, and I'm pretty much ready to point at the Maid of Honor as the person who caused this. I actually have little doubt that both photographers were just trying to do what they thought was their job..

And, just to finish my response, I've noticed that you didn't respond to my pointing out your accusations, insinuations, and insults... I'll take that as an indicator that you regret saying such silly things about us.

Message edited by author 2011-01-04 14:38:13.

RobertCockroachBlair

01/04/2011 02:11:35 PM · #135

I don't respond to attacks that have little balance of fact. Now, as to the photographic evidence. I saw that photo taken. Byron was not interfering, he was doing his own photo. The "pro" took the photo as Byron was showing his lady friend how to hold the umbrella. I believe my insults were a result of the evidence posted on this bullitenboard. The language and behavior of those who pursued the improper release of Bron's website also prompted my opinions and "insults". If they are insults, then re examine how those who blandly followed the lies made about an honorable man. I will not back down from defending a friend over tainted lies, photos, and innuendos.

Sigma 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 DL Aspherical IF Hyperzoom for Canon

01/04/2011 02:12:00 PM · #136

All we need now is the bride and maid of honour to chip in and we'll have the whole merry crew!

DPC can be so awesome sometimes!!

punk_kaos

Canon EOS-1Ds

01/04/2011 02:26:50 PM · #137

Guys, can we please let this rest. The photog in question and the MoH are still both being attacked in an unprofessional manner.

As I've stated. I felt at the time that to photog in question was acting out of turn, but as was pointed out to me by the MoH, he was invited to shoot candids
at the bride's request. This is a fact that I DID NOT RECALL AT THE EVENT, but that the bride had actually mentioned in our initial meeting. That absolutely colored my feelings of the event and led me to be more frustrated than I likely had the right to be. I felt intruded on by his take charge manner and umbrella as well as some comments made to my assistant shooter. What I should have done is address that directly with him as two professionals. What I should have NOT done is bring it here in the manner I did. As coryboehne pointed out, we were both doing what we felt was best for the bride and groom. Between the two of us, I'm sure they'll end up with some lovely records of their big day.

BUT THIS IS BLEEDING OVER INTO LIVES THAT DON'T DESERVE IT! The MoH is a very nice lady and has been very cordial with addressing this with me, and I'm horrified that this ever got to where it is. I never meant this to become a character assassination, I actually originally asked for advice on how I should handle this and it really got horrifically out of hand. Some of what I was angered over was things I observed directly, some comments were to my assistant and not myself directly.

None of those things deserve the response that this thread has become.

Again, my humblest apologies to both the MoH and Byron, I never meant to cause you the pain and trouble that this obviously has.

01/04/2011 02:29:36 PM · #138

Originally posted by RobertCockroachBlair:

Hi Robert
As a pro myself I would think it awfully bad form if someone else (even if invited) decided to whip out an umbrella, pocket wizard and flash combo whilst I am main shooter at a wedding, then again I would have words on the day and not resort to posting my issues on a public board. I know from experience how hard it can be to work with a B &G whilst they are being distracted by camera toting family members and I can relate to his frustration.

It would be great if Byron came in and explained it to us first hand, so far we have had the OPs first hand account and the character statements of Blackbeards merry crew, but let's hear it from the horses mouth.

Oh by the way , it's the Internet and we all screw up with spelling from time to time, was kind of embarrassed when I saw someone pick you up for a spelling mistake - I daresay we could go through his previous posts on here and find the odd spelling mistake.

Take it easy!!

MelonMusketeer

Nikon D7000

Nikon MF 50mm f/1.4

01/04/2011 02:30:28 PM · #139

Ok, let's all take a deep breath, go back in time, and begin again after having looked at both sides of the story. Somebody posted a gripe. Some of us took a swipe at people we didn't know, and they fired back. We are all about even now, and it was all very entertaining.
Sometimes a good tiff starts a great friendship. I hope that this will end that way, but I sort of doubt it in this case.
I'm done here now.

RobertCockroachBlair

01/04/2011 02:34:47 PM · #140

I will withdraw at the request of the Maid of Honor and Byron. I am not as they, nor as forgiving.
I will not post here again. Have at me as you will. As for slanderous statements and actions....shame on you all for not looking into matters before attacking. Such are the actions of people who watch Fox News and the radical forces that are distructive to the prindiples that make this country great. Have at me. I will not be here again.
I apologize to the innocent and condemn the guilty.

01/04/2011 02:37:02 PM · #141

Originally posted by RobertCockroachBlair:

So, what I'm hearing here, is that you believe your friend did nothing wrong, and that the original poster was actually just being mean spirited, and had absolutely no reason to call out your friend for interfering? You don't suppose he ever offered the OP advice, or acted condescending?

As for your response to the insults, your damn right they are, and I didn't see anyone insinuating that you had a head full of mud because you were willing to take his side. My point is that you've actually gone quite a bit beyond talking about the OP, and indeed have now managed to imply several unsavory things about anyone who has posted here, clearly foolish, but it still needed calling out as it was quite inappropriate.

From what you've said, he had reason to be condescending and less than polite, as the OP actually cost him money didn't he? As he was (as you said, I'm not sure it's true) found on Craigslist, and was clearly charging a rate that was less than your friend would have requested. That alone is a probable cause of possible bad behavior on your freinds behalf.

I'm not a trained psychologist, but I'm going to just look at the motivations that are apparent, and try to draw a conclusion from that...

Effectively, when we examine the facts, it becomes obvious that there must have been some interference or insult, as the member here clearly was being paid, and had no real reason to attack your friend, unless there was some real, or perceived, reason provided, perhaps it really was as described in the original post..

Your friend, however, has two bad factors that don't bode well for the believability of his version. One is the fact that he was approached about doing this for free, and "gently declined", essentially, to me that means he explained to them this was how he makes a living, and that he would need to be paid to take responsibility for the shoot. This could very well lead to resentment directed towards the OP, which may well lead to snide comments and perhaps even Freudian interference. The second bad factor is that now he is defending himself, essentially by calling into question the motivations and reputation of the OP, neither of which I claim to fully understand, but it would appear that your friend has the much greater motivation to lie.

Working backwards from this, using Occam's razor, I deduce that it is more likely that your friend was indeed at some fault (perhaps subconsciously, or inadvertently) which riled up the original poster enough to make his posts, which, I also believe are likely exaggerated versions of the facts, but it still remains that when the facts are examined, your friend would appear to be more likely to be at fault..

So, that's about the best I can do with the "facts" I have, as we really are working from fairly sparse information and facts..

01/04/2011 02:42:08 PM · #142

Originally posted by Simms:

Originally posted by RobertCockroachBlair:
....

....
Oh by the way , it's the Internet and we all screw up with spelling from time to time, was kind of embarrassed when I saw someone pick you up for a spelling mistake - I daresay we could go through his previous posts on here and find the odd spelling mistake.

Take it easy!!

*shrug* probably inappropriate. It was more of a retort directed at

MercyDillingham's statement about spelling, and I figured if the pirates wanted to point out spelling errors, we could easily return the same..

Message edited by author 2011-01-04 14:44:57.

01/04/2011 02:51:13 PM · #143

Originally posted by punk_kaos:

Guys, can we please let this rest. .

LOL, I hope for your sake the wedding photos come out well! The pressure must be immense now,

Sigma 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 DL Aspherical IF Hyperzoom for Canon

01/04/2011 02:54:22 PM · #144

Originally posted by Simms:

Originally posted by punk_kaos:
Guys, can we please let this rest. .

LOL, I hope for your sake the wedding photos come out well! The pressure must be immense now,

No joke huh?

punk_kaos

Canon EOS-1Ds

01/04/2011 02:54:32 PM · #145

Originally posted by Simms:

Originally posted by punk_kaos:
Guys, can we please let this rest. .

LOL, I hope for your sake the wedding photos come out well! The pressure must be immense now,

Honestly, I don't feel pressure for the QUALITY of my shots. This whole mess was never about his ability as a photographer, or mine.

The pressure was from the event itself. Shooting a wedding is stressful. Having an unknown quantity in the mix just adds to that stress.
I'm sure that the bride will get great shots from both of us, regardless of the ridiculousness of this whole mess.

01/04/2011 02:56:21 PM · #146

Ooh, Columbo... he may have been pissed off because he was undercut by

punk_kaos. So he finally accepts the request to shoot for free with the motive of revenge.

01/04/2011 03:09:42 PM · #147

So, is that it now? All done?

Did the question in the topic get answered?

Discuss.

Message edited by author 2011-01-04 15:10:13.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/04/2011 03:15:48 PM · #148

Originally posted by Simms:

So, is that it now? All done?

Did the question in the topic get answered?

Discuss.

I think so. 1) Communicate, 2) Don't post the accused contact info.

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

01/04/2011 03:15:49 PM · #149

It's threads like this that keep tearing me away from reality TV and sucking me back to DPC. I give this one the max rating of TEN POPCORNS:

Anyone remember the "Bucket of Peas" incident of '06?

For the record, I was a bit shocked and disappointed to hear someone other than the OP harassed the other photog with nasty emails. :/ ...although knowing it is that easy to get an angry mob to do my bidding might come in useful in my ongoing battle against Batman.

*disappears in a tiny puff of smoke*

eta: I blame

smardaz for this whole thing. :P

*more smoke*

Message edited by author 2011-01-04 15:19:01.