Digital Camera - DPChallenge Forums

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

12/13/2010 06:37:09 PM · #1

Ladies and Gents,

Was on here for a short while a couple of years ago. Went through a divorce, and a couple of other "issues". Lost my camera, lenses and tripod in the process--not to mention a lot of other stuff.

After a couple of years of financial recovery, I should be getting a bit of cash I can use to get back into Digital Photography. I really need some advice on a camera I can use that will be somethign I can "grow" into.

I should have between five to seven hundred US dollars. Needs to include camera/initial glass/and case.

I would like as much punch for the money as possible, but ease of adding equipment is also important.

I just don't know the market well, and as some of the folks on this site are using and "abusing"--lol--the current tech, I was hoping to get some model suggestions and/or pointers. Should I go Canon Rebel or Nikon. . .

Trust me when I say this. . .your input will almost certainly determine which one I will purchase.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

12/13/2010 06:46:10 PM · #2

Heck, you simply cannot go wrong with either brand. Both Canon and Nikon are producing entry-level models that simply rock compared to what was available in that segment a few short years ago.
My one concern is that on your stated budget, you are going to be working with a "kit lens" which may not give you all of the image quality you could be getting. I'd suggest, if you can, adding a 50mm f/1.8 prime lens to your shopping list. Both Canon and Nikon have inexpensive versions of this lens spec, and they will let you see what the camera can really do.

Mike

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

12/13/2010 06:50:29 PM · #3

Nikon just came out with the d3100 that is getting really good reviews compared to its canon counterpart the T2i at about 250 more.

I think the D3100 is about $650-699. You can add the 50mm f1.8 for a hundred bucks more in a short while.

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

12/14/2010 06:02:38 PM · #4

I appreciate the Help. I currently looking at the Canon EOS Rebel XS. I can pick up the unit with a mid level zoom lens and a bag for about 650 at Best Buy. . . Though I may keep looking on Craig's list for folks selling decent glass and cams. . .

Yo_Spiff

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

12/14/2010 06:46:05 PM · #5

You can find the rebel XS kit with the 18-55 lens for about $500 if you shop around and wait for a sale. Perhaps even less. Craigslist is a good option if you can wait for someone to offer one at a fair price. I've seen a lot of people seriously overvaluing cameras on Craigslist. I saw an ad just the other day offering a digital Rebel (the original, 6Mp model) with the older 18-55 lens for $650. Sorry, don't think so. I wouldn't pay over $250 for a Rebel XT at this point. When I look at any used source, I am generally willing to pay on the low end of reasonable. There needs to be some benefit to taking the risk of buying from an individual.

spiritualspatula

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

12/14/2010 10:46:04 PM · #6

Since nobody has said it yet, go check out some in person and see how they feel in your hands. Mess with the buttons and settings. Assuming you have a cursory knowledge of camera controls, you should be able to see if anything is a huge frustration for you. Also, if possible, put a little thought into where you might want your photography to go, since once you get a body, you'll be married to that system and its lenses. Honestly, I'm a pretty firm believer in both companies being pretty equal overall. The power shifts from one direction to the other periodically as new bodies come out, but overall you're buying the lenses and the technology will balance itself over time.

12/15/2010 12:54:06 PM · #7

I appreciate the input from you guys more than you know.

I have considered Craig's list, and have purviewed cameras in my (and surrounding) areas. Every once in a while a good deal seems to pop up, but, I don't want to take a risk from buying off "Crank's List" unless the offer is so good I couldn't pass it up.

I also appreciate spiritualspat's comments. I used an old Minolta when I first was into the hobby, and I found the onboard software to be clunky and ineffectual (as, like most folks I have Adobe software). So the Nikon does not appeal to me for internal software.

I also really like the Canon live view set up, as it will allow me to just punch the camera when I am using it in a general "family" setting and not setting up shots. Though, I'm not sure if I have good reasoning here?

I find it easier to find Canon accessories and lenses in my area, and I am operating under the theory that I will grow into the lenses my set up uses over time (as I have very little experience in other systems). I am also trying to keep in mind that any camera I buy at the entry level is just that ENTRY LEVEL. And that if I coninue to enjoy this hobby I will probably step up, and I like the some of the bigger Canon models I am seeing. . .so being familiar with the low end set up from them will probably prep me for bigger things. . .or perhaps I am thinking to far ahead.

12/15/2010 01:35:03 PM · #8

Originally posted by crowis:

or perhaps I am thinking to far ahead.

Not possible.. :)

In the end it sounds like you're leaning towards Canon, and I think that's great..

One word of advice here, don't worry about the body and what it can do, look at the lenses available for each system and then consider that lenses will usually outlast a half dozen bodies.. Buy the body for the lenses you want, not the other way around..

12/15/2010 01:41:28 PM · #9

By the way Coryboehne: Congrats on the Ribbon. How did you get a coyote to stand still long enough for that good of a shot : )

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

12/15/2010 01:42:52 PM · #10

Originally posted by crowis:

By the way Coryboehne: Congrats on the Ribbon. How did you get a coyote to stand still long enough for that good of a shot : )

LOL, thanks... It was actually running... :) I just got lucky in being able to position myself such that it ran through a clearing right in front of me, about 40 yards away..

ETA: Speaking of lenses, that photo's quality is largely due to the $5k chunk of glass I had on the camera..

Message edited by author 2010-12-15 13:43:50.

Yo_Spiff

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

12/15/2010 03:13:31 PM · #11

Originally posted by coryboehne:

ETA: Speaking of lenses, that photo's quality is largely due to the $5k chunk of glass I had on the camera..

Bah! Grog do same with $200 lens. Grog is grate creator-of-images. Cory-bone can do same, just not as grate as Grog.

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100

12/15/2010 03:16:08 PM · #12

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Originally posted by coryboehne:
ETA: Speaking of lenses, that photo's quality is largely due to the $5k chunk of glass I had on the camera..

Bah! Grog do same with $200 lens. Grog is grate creator-of-images. Cory-bone can do same, just not as grate as Grog.

Grog is great, all hail Grog!!

spiritualspatula

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

12/15/2010 08:53:51 PM · #13

Originally posted by coryboehne:

Originally posted by crowis:
or perhaps I am thinking to far ahead.

Not possible.. :)

In the end it sounds like you're leaning towards Canon, and I think that's great..

One word of advice here, don't worry about the body and what it can do, look at the lenses available for each system and then consider that lenses will usually outlast a half dozen bodies.. Buy the body for the lenses you want, not the other way around..

This is pretty much exactly what I was getting at earlier about camera marriage. One issue I had with Nikon is that there isn't really a middle ground between kit lenses and pro lenses. Canon has the f4L's, but they're pretty nonexistent for Nikon, so you have to settle with what you have or pony up for a 2.8.
As for the OP, the menu systems in both can be customized a great deal if you wish, so some of the frustration can be avoided in that regard. For me, size and feel was a big thing. My D300 is my first Nikon, and I looked pretty hard at the 40D at the same time, as well as some of the lower Canon and Nikon offerings as well. The controls just felt a lot more natural to me in terms of placement on the D300, and my hands didn't feel cramped. Also, I'd say that your observation on lens prevalence is likely true, but you might want to evaluate what lenses are actually being offered. My personal observation has been that there are WAY more Canon lenses for sale on Craigslist and whatnot, but that they are always kit lenses. On the other hand, the intermediate to pro offerings seem about as common as the same sorts of lenses from Nikon. The nice thing about Nikon is all the old lenses you can get for cheap though.
Having realistic expectations for an entry level camera is wise, as well. As I said, I think that overall technology between the two companies largely balances itself over time, so you'll see more of a difference upgrading from one "tier" (the Rebels, say) to the next (50/60D) than switching brands.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

12/15/2010 08:57:52 PM · #14

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

...you'll see more of a difference upgrading from one "tier" (the Rebels, say) to the next (50/60D) than switching brands.

You seem to have mistakenly placed the 60D in the same tier as my lovely 50D... ;)

kleski

Canon EOS-7D

12/15/2010 09:50:15 PM · #15

you can find some good deals for the Canon EOS-400D on ebay for less than $600 and later step up to the 40/50/60 series without needing new lenses as they all use the same.

spiritualspatula

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

12/15/2010 09:53:35 PM · #16

Originally posted by coryboehne:

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
...you'll see more of a difference upgrading from one "tier" (the Rebels, say) to the next (50/60D) than switching brands.

You seem to have mistakenly placed the 60D in the same tier as my lovely 50D... ;)

Haha, I was truthfully considering putting an asterisk after that ;)
I'd still put it in that tier though, because while the functionality is more Rebel-y, it's controls are more XXD-y, yes?

12/15/2010 09:59:58 PM · #17

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

Originally posted by coryboehne:

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
...you'll see more of a difference upgrading from one "tier" (the Rebels, say) to the next (50/60D) than switching brands.

You seem to have mistakenly placed the 60D in the same tier as my lovely 50D... ;)

Haha, I was truthfully considering putting an asterisk after that ;)
I'd still put it in that tier though, because while the functionality is more Rebel-y, it's controls are more XXD-y, yes?

Right. It's just such an odd hybrid no-one is really sure where to put it, but it's pretty clear it doesn't belong in the xxD category overall, although it really is nicer than the rebel series... *shrug* no idea where to put the thing,, I just know where it doesn't go.. :)

12/16/2010 12:05:28 PM · #18

Let me get this straight. . .Or, let me try to get this straight.

I was under the impression that the Canon Rebel body was able to handle the same lenses as the 50D? Is this not the case?

Please don't get me wrong, I really need an entry level camera (both for cost, and to learn what I really like and don't like in the long term). . .so stepping up probably is not going to happen unless I get a sizeable wad of cash or an unexpectedly good deal. Maybe due to this whether the Rebel can handle the same lenses is moot. . . But, if not, what model do I have to step into to get lens adaptation?

12/16/2010 12:06:38 PM · #19

Also, it might be a good idea to keep in mind that I kind of suck at ths DP thing. . .I think my best score was a 5.3. . .and I think Jen's looks got me that score, not my shooting. LOL.

Message edited by author 2010-12-16 12:07:00.

12/16/2010 12:16:57 PM · #20

Originally posted by crowis:

Absoultely, they all use the same (EF and EF-S) lenses - the largest differences are in build toughness, focus accuracy, software, interface, and buttons/dials/switches on the body..

And the 60D is just a goofball oddity, so don't worry about our bickering over that... It's even a fine camera, just not built to the xxD standard in my opinion..

For what it's worth, you can go buy a used 20D and an 85mm f/1.8 and turn out STUNNING work, so don't worry too much about all of this, just buy a body that works for you and be sure to get a GOOD lens with it, as that matters far more than the body.

12/16/2010 12:19:25 PM · #21

Originally posted by crowis:

Also, it might be a good idea to keep in mind that I kind of suck at ths DP thing. . .I think my best score was a 5.3. . .and I think Jen's looks got me that score, not my shooting. LOL.

I would like to share my first three entries with you..

- out of focus nut

- what the hell was I thinking?

- ohh, selective desat, yeah that was cool, about 10 years ago... :)

Don't worry, you'll fall in somewhere along the line, it took me somewhere around 100 entries to feel that I was starting to measure up.

12/16/2010 12:33:22 PM · #22

I was laughing when you posted the ducks. . .because I took a shot of goslings in my portfolio which looks close to identical.

How did you get that image to stick. . . when I tried to transfer my Gosling URL it wouldn't pop.

Thanks for the encouragment and the help on the technical issues.

Message edited by author 2010-12-16 12:36:39.

12/16/2010 12:40:44 PM · #23

Originally posted by crowis:

You just copy the image id# then post it in the post and surround it with

[thumb][/thumb]

if you use the "quote" button, it will show you the code behind anyone's post that you're interested in knowing how they did something..

Message edited by author 2010-12-16 12:42:01.

12/16/2010 12:53:22 PM · #24

Cool. Here is my gosling shot.

- Goslings

Message edited by author 2010-12-16 12:54:03.