| Author | Thread |
|
|
11/03/2010 07:12:54 AM · #101 |
After the voting.
Let's see how effective the American system is now. Gridlocked for two years until Obama gets kicked out of office and is replaced by .... Bush/Palin. That would be Jeb and Sarah. You thought the Bush years were bad...
On a side note.
Only way to show the government that you are fed up with their governing is to stay home on voting day. Nobody voting will agitate the government more than anything you or I can do with one vote. You need to stop believing the ones that you have no faith in because the only ones saying that voting matters these days is these crooked politicians we all love to hate. Nothing will be done until voting comes to a standstill. Only problem is most of us do not have the balls to do it.
I thought I was doing a good deed by voting for the Green Party in my country but I have come to my senses and stay home now. |
|
|
|
11/03/2010 09:19:01 AM · #102 |
Originally posted by violici:
I think the more you know about politics, government, etc, the more bitter you become.
I personally like to stay away from all the lies and false promises because it doesn't affect me in a major way. I've lived in america for 14 years and whether it was Clinton, Bush or obama as president, my life, personally has not been affected in any major way. I think if we focus on ourselves and our lives more then "believing and hoping for a better future" we'd see that we, as people can make our lives as decent as we can instead of just hoping for something more. Especially from the government.
I say, live for today, you never know what tomorrow brings, if you want to vote, vote, if you don't, then don't. But focusing too much attention on it just distracts from the beautiful things in life. :) |
Our lives have been affected. The school system is getting gutted, the "no child left behind" is doing some nasty things to the education system -- the schools spend 1/4 of the year teaching to the test that they have to pass, spending for the sciences has been gutted at different times in the past.
There is no way that I can say that life hasn't been affected by some of the stupidity in politics.
|
|
|
|
11/03/2010 09:20:37 AM · #103 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Only way to show the government that you are fed up with their governing is to stay home on voting day. Nobody voting will agitate the government more than anything you or I can do with one vote. |
Yes, apparently Stalin used to get quite upset by that. He'd take it personally and sulk around for days afterwards. |
|
|
|
11/03/2010 09:20:42 AM · #104 |
It's annoying when people talk about the backlash being a result of "politicians not listening to the people." They should rephrase it as "not listening to the loudest people."
|
|
|
|
11/03/2010 11:58:22 AM · #105 |
Originally posted by violici:
I think the more you know about politics, government, etc, the more bitter you become. |
In my experience it is not quite that.
People who are engaged in the process are hopeful, they understand the process is far from perfect, but that their efforts really matter and make a difference.
People who are completely out of touch with the process, and don't know anyone who is inside the system, see it as a monolith of greed and corruption. They are very bitter.
I spent some time on Capitol Hill, and there I met some of the brightest most selfless people I have ever met. People who despite their various political viewpoints were trying to make the world a better place, and usually passing up a chance to make much better money in the private sector to do so.
If all you do is watch the news from time to time, and see the scandal of the day, then you will get bitter. If you get involved and try to make a difference then you can see that those around you are not monsters, but people trying to make things better, even if they don't all agree on what "better" is.
âA little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again.â
Pope
Message edited by author 2010-11-03 11:58:53. |
|
|
|
11/03/2010 12:21:58 PM · #106 |
Originally posted by Jac:
After the voting.
Only way to show the government that you are fed up with their governing is to stay home on voting day. Nobody voting will agitate the government more than anything you or I can do with one vote. You need to stop believing the ones that you have no faith in because the only ones saying that voting matters these days is these crooked politicians we all love to hate. Nothing will be done until voting comes to a standstill. Only problem is most of us do not have the balls to do it.
|
the onion |
|
|
|
11/03/2010 12:42:59 PM · #107 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
People who are engaged in the process are hopeful, they understand the process is far from perfect, but that their efforts really matter and make a difference.
People who are completely out of touch with the process, and don't know anyone who is inside the system, see it as a monolith of greed and corruption. They are very bitter. |
Not doubting there is some truth in that but it's not my experience. There was a time before working in Federal Gov circles (granted not the US one) that I was far more optimistic. In fact I was enough to believe that most politicians were generally working for the public good and issues got serious debate and investigation with public concerns heard..... [stop laughing.. ok.. I know.... but I was young as well okay :-)]
After working in what your calling "the process" for almost 6 years.... I commonly saw actions vs. words have such a gap (even avoiding the topic of what you would call special interest groups and money buying access) that it's Laughable at best..... Corruption at worst and above all hypocritical. Could my experiences be different from the norm.... yeah maybe but I have good reasons to doubt that's the case.
Like I say, I don't waste my time pretending to make a different any more by voting now days (in fact been fined a few times since voting is mandatory for me).... |
|
|
|
11/03/2010 12:49:34 PM · #108 |
Originally posted by njsabs:
I vote to make my own statement, however small and ignored it shall be. I feel I owe it to those that fought for the freedoms of women to vote long ago. |
I vote because it's my ticket. Ticket to piss, moan, gripe, bitch, and complain.
Without the proper ticket you're just another noisy asshole. |
|
|
|
11/03/2010 12:53:48 PM · #109 |
An old friend sent me an old article... You should read it.
//news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=02%2F11%2F11%2F3345022
ETA: BrennanOB, this means you sir. :)
Message edited by author 2010-11-03 12:55:34. |
|
|
|
11/03/2010 12:58:27 PM · #110 |
| Actually the opposite is true. Why would you have the right to complain and moan, when you helped get them into office? I mean, that just seems the opposite. I'll vote as soon as there is someone worth voting for. I personally wont be held accountable for getting someone in office or potentially getting someone in office when I know that they dont hold the values and beliefs that a man in office should have. |
|
|
|
11/03/2010 12:59:48 PM · #111 |
Originally posted by FireBird:
Originally posted by njsabs:
I vote to make my own statement, however small and ignored it shall be. I feel I owe it to those that fought for the freedoms of women to vote long ago. |
I vote because it's my ticket. Ticket to piss, moan, gripe, bitch, and complain.
Without the proper ticket you're just another noisy asshole. |
Problem is you still voted for one of two bad choices, so in the end, thanks for nothing.
Actually, as I see it, since I didn't vote, that means I'm free to complain, as I found neither choice acceptable, and to say that I shouldn't complain is ludicrous, basically you're saying that (in different terms of course) were I to be stranded in the desert and presented with two options for suicide, and chose neither, then I shouldn't complain about being stuck in the desert.. Simply ludicrous.. |
|
|
|
11/03/2010 01:01:20 PM · #112 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
As per my solution? We need revolution, preferably bloodless,
|
No such thing. Blood paid for what we have and blood will be
required to fix it. But history bodes ill for the US. A strong
man will probably be our next form of government. Now if I can
somehow take that position I'll front DPC some operating money.
Maybe we would expand it to Digital Video Photography. I promise
not to "disappear" too many members....... as long as they let
me win every so often. If you're interested just contact Art ROTFLMAO,
my cultural minister. Don't take too much of his time as he's
very busy with his other cabinet post; Minister of Defense. |
|
|
|
11/03/2010 01:03:49 PM · #113 |
Originally posted by FireBird:
If you're interested just contact Art ROTFLMAO,
my cultural minister. Don't take too much of his time as he's
very busy with his other cabinet post; Minister of Defense. |
Are you sure you don't mean Minister of Offense? |
|
|
|
11/03/2010 01:13:48 PM · #114 |
|
|
|
11/03/2010 01:20:53 PM · #115 |
| With both parties moving to see who can get more extreme perhaps we can take solace in a state of blessed gridlock. |
|
|
|
11/03/2010 01:31:11 PM · #116 |
Originally posted by mgarsteck:
I personally wont be held accountable |
I know. That's the larger part of the problem. |
|
|
|
11/03/2010 01:46:05 PM · #117 |
"It is obvious to many that we are now facing a catastrophic failure of our
government. The solution is not, as some people believe, to pour more time,
effort, and money into a system that has been designed to fail us. The
solution is to take matters into our own hands. Many people have already
done this. Millions of people from all walks of life have stopped voting.
Hundreds of thousands of people around the world actively protest government
policies and actions. Millions of people donate time or money to non-profit
organizations. Thousands of people carry out direct actions every year.
These are the real solutions to the problem that confronts us."
from the above posted article.
20% of New Mexico now identifies itself as "Tea Party", and I'm sure they voted.
Doing good through NGOs is great, but it has very real limits.
Giving money to Planned Parenthood is fine, until family planning becomes illegal.
Working for the World Wildlife Fund is good, but it doesn't make any difference in the long run once "cap and trade" gets lifted.
Habitat for Humanity isn't needed in Sweden, their government thinks housing is a right and acts accordingly.
Which NGOs succeed is determined to a large extent by our elected representatives.
You might be interested in this article about the effort to suppress the hispanic vote in Nevada by the GOP. Suppression of the vote, convincing people that their vote ought not be cast, for whatever reason, has been a tactic as long as democracy has existed.
Whatever your lofty reasoning, not voting is not a statement; it a concession to whatever the current zietgeist is that you are too (apathetic, disgusted, smart, fill in whatever you like because it doesn't matter why) to make your opinions known in the only place that matters.
Sure, the candidates I voted for were far from ideal, but I made a choice.
At lunch yesterday I ate the thing I though looked best from the refrigerator. If I waited for my ideal meal to appear there by magic before I deigned to eat, I would starve to death. Same logic goes for voting. You can hope for the perfect choice, but sometimes you have to pick off whatever arrives on the lunch wagon.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Burke
Message edited by author 2010-11-03 13:50:57. |
|
|
|
11/03/2010 02:30:41 PM · #118 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
At lunch yesterday I ate the thing I though looked best from the refrigerator. If I waited for my ideal meal to appear there by magic before I deigned to eat, I would starve to death. Same logic goes for voting. You can hope for the perfect choice, but sometimes you have to pick off whatever arrives on the lunch wagon.
|
Or, you can (as I do) go shopping... Then again, they'd like you to believe that there's nothing better at the store, so you might as well eat whatever is on the lunch wagon. |
|
|
|
11/03/2010 02:51:55 PM · #119 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
At lunch yesterday I ate the thing I though looked best from the refrigerator. If I waited for my ideal meal to appear there by magic before I deigned to eat, I would starve to death. Same logic goes for voting. You can hope for the perfect choice, but sometimes you have to pick off whatever arrives on the lunch wagon.
|
Or, you can (as I do) go shopping... Then again, they'd like you to believe that there's nothing better at the store, so you might as well eat whatever is on the lunch wagon. |
But you've readily admitted you don't "eat," you abstain. And that you are simply observing things devolve into madness does not give you free reign to criticize events. Your lack of effort at best and contrarian hard headedness at worst simply illustrtrates that you have no intention of helping things or any interest in diminishing the plight of humanity for the sake of your own beliefs. |
|
|
|
11/03/2010 02:56:18 PM · #120 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
they'd like you to believe that there's nothing better at the store, so you might as well eat whatever is on the lunch wagon. |
The all powerful "they" is a myth. There is only us. Of course if you choose not to participate then I guess you have created the "they", those of us who can be bothered to accept that until everyone agrees with me I can only choose amongst that which is on offer.
I would like to buy all my food local sourced, organic, sustainably farmed, and picked that day; but today my choices are
Safeway or Whole Foods. And sadly neither are perfect. But I have to choose.
The ideal is a goal, but falling short of that does not mean we can not distinguish between the merely good and the unacceptable.
|
|
|
|
11/03/2010 03:00:53 PM · #121 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
"It is obvious to many that we are now facing a catastrophic failure of our
government. The solution is not, as some people believe, to pour more time,
effort, and money into a system that has been designed to fail us. The
solution is to take matters into our own hands. Many people have already
done this. Millions of people from all walks of life have stopped voting.
Hundreds of thousands of people around the world actively protest government
policies and actions. Millions of people donate time or money to non-profit
organizations. Thousands of people carry out direct actions every year.
These are the real solutions to the problem that confronts us."
from the above posted article.
20% of New Mexico now identifies itself as "Tea Party", and I'm sure they voted.
Doing good through NGOs is great, but it has very real limits.
Giving money to Planned Parenthood is fine, until family planning becomes illegal.
Working for the World Wildlife Fund is good, but it doesn't make any difference in the long run once "cap and trade" gets lifted.
Habitat for Humanity isn't needed in Sweden, their government thinks housing is a right and acts accordingly.
Which NGOs succeed is determined to a large extent by our elected representatives.
You might be interested in this article about the effort to suppress the hispanic vote in Nevada by the GOP. Suppression of the vote, convincing people that their vote ought not be cast, for whatever reason, has been a tactic as long as democracy has existed.
Whatever your lofty reasoning, not voting is not a statement; it a concession to whatever the current zietgeist is that you are too (apathetic, disgusted, smart, fill in whatever you like because it doesn't matter why) to make your opinions known in the only place that matters.
Sure, the candidates I voted for were far from ideal, but I made a choice.
At lunch yesterday I ate the thing I though looked best from the refrigerator. If I waited for my ideal meal to appear there by magic before I deigned to eat, I would starve to death. Same logic goes for voting. You can hope for the perfect choice, but sometimes you have to pick off whatever arrives on the lunch wagon.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Burke |
This argument is making less and less sense to me in today's world. Government is an engine that needs oil (votes) and we all know that when an engine runs out of oil it seizes up. That's what is needed in today's world. You can't expect to cherry pick your candidates one by one and hope that some day you'll get enough do-gooders voted into government to make change happen. By the time you'll get enough people to actually start something the first ones will have gotten comfy with their positions and they'll start to think of their future (retirement) or have been turned into the politicians we have today. We need an about face, not a continuation of what's been going on for decades because that's all you'll get by voting for the better of the two evils. |
|
|
|
11/03/2010 03:06:33 PM · #122 |
Im going to jump in here.
Voting is a right, and by not exercising it you give it up.
Even if you think the system is broken, make the effort to go out and voice your opinion, if its it to vote out the incumbants. Even if you are disgusted in the system, at least you have a voice, and once in a while, those voices become a yell, and we get what happened yesterday.
Its clear the American public in unhappy with the way the democrats are running things just like a few years ago the American public was unhappy with the Republican free spending and military overuse. So they all got kicked out of office.
They got the message and regrouped. Now the D's get to go and regroup. Ifs the R's want to stay in they need to listen to the voters.
The people need to be kept on their toes, if not they get complacent and we get the situation we are currently in. |
|
|
|
11/03/2010 03:06:50 PM · #123 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
At lunch yesterday I ate the thing I though looked best from the refrigerator. If I waited for my ideal meal to appear there by magic before I deigned to eat, I would starve to death. Same logic goes for voting. You can hope for the perfect choice, but sometimes you have to pick off whatever arrives on the lunch wagon.
|
Or, you can (as I do) go shopping... Then again, they'd like you to believe that there's nothing better at the store, so you might as well eat whatever is on the lunch wagon. |
But you've readily admitted you don't "eat," you abstain. And that you are simply observing things devolve into madness does not give you free reign to criticize events. Your lack of effort at best and contrarian hard headedness at worst simply illustrtrates that you have no intention of helping things or any interest in diminishing the plight of humanity for the sake of your own beliefs. |
Actually, I take an active role in the world around me, doing what I can to make a real difference, spending my time where I can make a change.
I create change in my life and my areas of the world through determination and force of will. However, no matter how strong my determination and force of will is, it does not change the fact that my vote should not be cast, as I do not approve of ANY of the candidates.
Hopefully you can understand that I eat, and eat well, but I will not graze upon tainted grass.
Give me real choice again one day and I'll vote again...
Perhaps Matthew Cone said it best:
"Do not allow yourselves to be deceived: voting breeds apathy. By voting,
you are endorsing a government that kills thousands of people every year.
By voting, you are endorsing a government that bombs nations without
provocation. By voting, you are endorsing the plutocracy that bankrupts our
freedoms. By voting, you ensure that the tradition of systemic exploitation
and disempowerment will continue. By voting, you are disrespecting yourself
and condemning us all. " |
|
|
|
11/03/2010 03:11:11 PM · #124 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Im going to jump in here.
Voting is a right, and by not exercising it you give it up.
Even if you think the system is broken, make the effort to go out and voice your opinion, if its it to vote out the incumbants. Even if you are disgusted in the system, at least you have a voice, and once in a while, those voices become a yell, and we get what happened yesterday.
Its clear the American public in unhappy with the way the democrats are running things just like a few years ago the American public was unhappy with the Republican free spending and military overuse. So they all got kicked out of office.
They got the message and regrouped. Now the D's get to go and regroup. Ifs the R's want to stay in they need to listen to the voters.
The people need to be kept on their toes, if not they get complacent and we get the situation we are currently in. |
Ha ha... They've really got you convinced don't they? Watch, two years (or maybe four) we'll be 180 degrees out from here, where America is disgusted with the mess the Republicans have made, and thinking it's the solution, they will loudly vote in Democrats, who will, in two or four years, have made a mess out of things, so the public will again, loudly displace them with the obvious solution - Republicans...
I'll repost Matt Cone's final paragraph once more just to add emphasis on the point:
"Do not allow yourselves to be deceived: voting breeds apathy. By voting,
you are endorsing a government that kills thousands of people every year.
By voting, you are endorsing a government that bombs nations without
provocation. By voting, you are endorsing the plutocracy that bankrupts our
freedoms. By voting, you ensure that the tradition of systemic exploitation
and disempowerment will continue. By voting, you are disrespecting yourself
and condemning us all." |
|
|
|
11/03/2010 03:14:43 PM · #125 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Government is an engine that needs oil (votes) and we all know that when an engine runs out of oil it seizes up. |
I would beg to differ. The oil that greases the cogs of government is money. Without large gobs of cash, you have very little chance of being elected past local office.
Recent SCOTUS rulings have insured that there will be no lack of money, hidden and open, to ensure that the interests of capital are well represented. What percentage of the populus votes makes absolutely no difference to how the government works, it is only when voters who do show up to cast their ballots are no longer representative of public opinion at large, that the lack of votes makes any difference.
If your interests can not be represented by large donations, the only hope you have of being heard is by voting. If you have interests that do not always agree with large donors, your sitting at home on election day will not cause any problems in the smooth running of the well oiled machine.
Voting breeds apathy? That is the basset canard! Not voting is the purest manifestation of apathy! Go ahead turn your back on the country's problems, keep your hands clean.
Message edited by author 2010-11-03 15:24:07. |
|
