7D grain issues - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS II USM Lens

09/27/2010 08:38:58 PM · #51

Originally posted by david_c:

Originally posted by vawendy:
I would love as many people who have 7Ds to post pictures shown at actual pixels when the shot was made at 400 ISO or higher.

Here we go...ISO 800, untouched other than resize:

...and a 100% crop, also untouched beyond the crop:

Honestly, I was a bit surprised by your first image. I've never seen grain that coarse from my 7D, even at 3200+. Now, I keep NR off in-camera, and consider Noiseware as par of my post-processing workflow, but I realize you might want to do things differently.

Thanks so much!

FromDaRock

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

09/27/2010 08:49:06 PM · #52

This is a link to full size image I took in the spring. ISO 800, in the shade on a sunny day. f8 at 135mm (on a 28-135...a decent lens but no L) In my opinion it has significantly less noise than you are seeing in your photos. I am guessing that it would be better again if the lens wasn't at its limit for focal length (maybe someone else can confirm this). I am not sure how to crop a picture for %100 viewing, so I figured this was the next best thing, plus you can simply compare your own at full size side by side. The second one is a crop already, but at full size it doesn't make any difference.

These images have no post processing (except the crop) and they were still moving slowly when these handheld pictures were taken.

//farm2.static.flickr.com/1285/4707501219_dd9b0a7714_o.jpg
//farm5.static.flickr.com/4010/4708141164_9a9550a455_o.jpg

ISO 400 at f4 on a moving carousel.
Carousel

ISO 6400 at f8. This one is pretty grainy, more like what you have (maybe worse), but it is 6400.
Bumper cars

Message edited by author 2012-03-23 20:47:45.

10/21/2010 10:32:53 AM · #53

Wish me luck!

The guy at canon doesn't believe me that there's a problem, and they wanted me to send in files instead of the camera. It's been a painful process because the files were too large to make it through, and a host of problems in between. But he finally has the files, and he'll be calling me back in 20-30 minutes.

Here's a blow up of a couple of the shots I sent in:

They were taken at 250 ISO & 400 ISO

Message edited by author 2010-10-21 10:43:46.

Olympus 7-14mm f/4.0 Zuiko Digital Zoom

10/21/2010 11:01:04 AM · #54

so much for that. I should have sent the other examples as well. He went out and shot pictures of the sky and said that his works the same way and that's how much noise there should be. I should have sent the people shots as well.

and then I get a 1 on body forms.

*sigh* today isn't any fun.

Message edited by author 2010-10-21 11:11:44.

one2one

Olympus E-5

10/21/2010 11:32:39 AM · #55

That really sucks Wendy. Have you contacted the Canon head office? Maybe they'll do something about it.

I can't believe that this is normal noise on a 7D. Has Scalvert tried to shoot the sky with his? Does he get as much noise?

This camera is on my list but I'm not so sure anymore after seeing yours and the dealer's images.

I wish it was sunny today I would go out and shoot the sky for comparison.

Message edited by author 2010-10-21 11:34:05.

david_c

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

10/21/2010 01:45:12 PM · #56

Originally posted by vawendy:

He went out and shot pictures of the sky and said that his works the same way and that's how much noise there should be.

No, no and NO. Do not let that answer stand. Where did you buy this camera, Wendy, and why are you already dealing with Canon directly on this? You have a lemon, your retailer needs to make this right.

10/21/2010 01:48:14 PM · #57

Originally posted by david_c:

Originally posted by vawendy:
He went out and shot pictures of the sky and said that his works the same way and that's how much noise there should be.

No, no and NO. Do not let that answer stand. Where did you buy this camera, Wendy, and why are you already dealing with Canon directly on this? You have a lemon, your retailer needs to make this right.

Canon is my retailer on this. Since I had to have my 40D fixed 4 times in the same year, Canon gave me discount on the 7D -- so I purchased it directly from them. I don't have a store to which to return it.

They sent me a shipping label so I can send it in for repairs, even though they don't think anything's wrong with it. But when the focus was soft on my 20D, and I sent it in, they just set everything back to factory settings and sent it back with the same problem. That's why I have been trying to work with customer service, to have someone walk this through and make sure it gets fixed. Unfortunately, they say that it's not broken. That I can send it in anyway, but they don't see a problem with the files.

Message edited by author 2010-10-21 13:50:22.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

10/21/2010 03:02:33 PM · #58

Originally posted by vawendy:

Here's a blow up of a couple of the shots I sent in:

I fail to see where this is an issue, truly; EVERY digital image has noise, and requires noise reduction to smooth it out; it's just a question of when that's applied. here's a 10-second foray into Topaz Denoise, for comparison:

david_c

Canon EOS-7D

10/21/2010 04:14:05 PM · #59

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

I fail to see where this is an issue

The noise in Wendy's crop at ISO 250 was severe. None of the other 7D owners experienced noise of this level at even 1600 ISO. I think there's no question Wendy has a defective/under-performing sensor.

Originally posted by vawendy:

Sorry to hear it, it's almost like they sent you a refurbished item that wasn't QA'd properly.

10/21/2010 04:16:58 PM · #60

Originally posted by david_c:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I fail to see where this is an issue

The noise in Wendy's crop at ISO 250 was severe. None of the other 7D owners experienced noise of this level at even 1600 ISO. I think there's no question Wendy has a defective/under-performing sensor.

We experienced that kind of noise until we dialed in the correct amount of noise reduction in ACR. I think the issue is that there's no NR being applied in PP. I could be wrong. The image I applied NR to was her ISO 250 image, and it became noiseless.

R.

ETA: We DO own a 7D, have had it for some time now. It's just not the default camera on my profile, it's Penny's camera. Trust me, the noise drove us bonkers until we got it under control.

Message edited by author 2010-10-21 16:26:54.

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

10/21/2010 07:15:05 PM · #61

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by david_c:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I fail to see where this is an issue

The noise in Wendy's crop at ISO 250 was severe. None of the other 7D owners experienced noise of this level at even 1600 ISO. I think there's no question Wendy has a defective/under-performing sensor.

We experienced that kind of noise until we dialed in the correct amount of noise reduction in ACR. I think the issue is that there's no NR being applied in PP. I could be wrong. The image I applied NR to was her ISO 250 image, and it became noiseless.

R.

ETA: We DO own a 7D, have had it for some time now. It's just not the default camera on my profile, it's Penny's camera. Trust me, the noise drove us bonkers until we got it under control.

what noise reduction numbers are you using in ACR? (and what version of ACR?) I've been using topaz denoise, but I have to use the "strong" setting, and that's blurring the image a bit (and takes a long time to do to every photo).

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

10/21/2010 07:49:17 PM · #62

Originally posted by vawendy:

In Lightroom, which uses the ACR engine, I adjust both color and luminance sliders to eliminate most, but not all noise, then adjust the detail sliders if required. One thing to make sure of is that the detail slider in the "sharpening" section is at zero. I *never* move it from there, it creates a funky pattern similar to noise, but much more irritating to look at.

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

10/21/2010 08:29:56 PM · #63

When I'm playing with the files in photoshop4.0's raw converter, it doesn't do much to reduce the noise, unless I pull both the color and luminance sliders up to 100, then there's still a bit of noise and the image is fuzzy. DPP's noise reduction seems to work much better than those two sliders. (there's not a details slider, except under sharpening.)

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

10/21/2010 10:11:49 PM · #64

Originally posted by vawendy:

When I'm playing with the files in photoshop4.0's raw converter...

Holy moly, Ps 4.0! I'm hoping you meant CS4!

LOL, I know you did, just had to poke a little fun...

Open Ps and select Help>About Plug-In>Camera Raw and post what version appears. I'm thinking you have an old version of ACR, since you have no "details" slider. The NR on newer versions is improved.
FWIW, yes, if I slide the luminance NR slider all the way to 100%, there's *no* noise left, but it's hell on detail. Remember, though, the idea is not to get rid of all noise, it's to reduce it. Leaving a little noise is not at all a bad thing.

smurfguy

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

10/22/2010 11:58:52 PM · #65

You did check the switch, right?

Olympus 7-14mm f/4.0 Zuiko Digital Zoom

10/23/2010 12:44:23 AM · #66

Originally posted by smurfguy:

You did check the switch, right?

You actually made me get our 7D out of the bag to check, LOL...

R.

one2one

Olympus E-5

10/23/2010 08:28:28 PM · #67

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by smurfguy:
You did check the switch, right?

You actually made me get our 7D out of the bag to check, LOL...

R.

lol He got you.

As he did me.

I downloaded the image to view in photoshop; good editing job. ;)

smurfguy

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

10/26/2010 10:47:59 AM · #68

=D Sorry, couldn't help myself.

10/26/2010 10:50:33 AM · #69

Originally posted by smurfguy:

You did check the switch, right?

What... you guys don't have the switch? I have one... maybe mine's broken.

sumanc

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

03/23/2012 02:31:29 PM · #70

Hello all! I know I am bumping a very old thread, but I wanted to know whether vawendy found any solution for this problem. I have just bought a used 7D (probably it was a mistake buying used camera online) and I seem to have similar grain issues at 100% view.

In case I have a refurbished body (which I don't know for sure!), is there any way I could get it checked by Canon or somebody else? It should still be under warranty. Please advise.

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

03/23/2012 03:25:27 PM · #71

Nope. Dealing with much more grain than I had on the 40D. I just run everything through various levels of topaz denoise, and cry loudly when I need to shoot anything at 800 or higher. Canon claimed that everything was perfectly fine.

Message edited by author 2012-03-23 15:25:44.

scooter97

Canon EOS-6D

03/23/2012 10:45:23 PM · #72

Originally posted by vawendy:

Wendy I still have noise on my copy and I've had it back to the shop for 'repairs' Not much improvement if you ask me. I spoke with a tech rep about the difference between the 40D and the 7D and he just said that the 40D has some of the best IQ (whatever that means) that Canon has ever made. I guess going up to 18MP on the same size (physically) sensor is just going to generate noise. I have the same noise issues with the T2i but I wasn't surprised since it was a Rebel.

03/23/2012 10:49:12 PM · #73

IQ = Image Quality

Leo

Apple iPhone Xr

03/23/2012 11:02:14 PM · #74

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

IQ = Image Quality

I didn't know either. Another question, is it a "scientific" value or a subjective value/opinion...?