Don't ask, Don't tell, Don't think, Don't progress

09/21/2010 09:23:36 PM · #1

Seriously senate republicans? This is just shameful. HORRIBLE. Just like the anti-civil rights movements in the 60s fighting against black rights, I hope you fall to the gutter of historical shame like your backwards predecessors.

This is a no brainer. Repeal it. No study needed, I assure you, the fabric of the Earth will not rip out from under your feet.

ETA: For those who don't know what I'm talking about: Article

Message edited by author 2010-09-21 21:25:31.

09/21/2010 09:33:17 PM · #2

Have you served in the military?

09/21/2010 09:36:04 PM · #3

What the article also doesn't say is that an 'amnesty' program for illegal aliens in the US was tied to this. Really need the whole story, not just a focused rant.

09/21/2010 09:46:12 PM · #4

Originally posted by kawesttex:

What the article also doesn't say is that an 'amnesty' program for illegal aliens in the US was tied to this. Really need the whole story, not just a focused rant.

I did know that.

"The legislation's defeat also dashed the hopes of some immigration reform proponents because the bill was to serve as a vehicle for an amendment providing a path to citizenship for children living in the United States illegally."

CHILDREN.

But so far as I've seen, that's not the reason they blocked it. There were all kinds of excuses.

09/21/2010 09:46:44 PM · #5

Originally posted by kawesttex:

Have you served in the military?

No but I spoke to a friend of a friend at length about her getting kicked out for being a lesbian. What's your point?

09/21/2010 09:48:30 PM · #6

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by kawesttex:
What the article also doesn't say is that an 'amnesty' program for illegal aliens in the US was tied to this. Really need the whole story, not just a focused rant.

I did know that.

"The legislation's defeat also dashed the hopes of some immigration reform proponents because the bill was to serve as a vehicle for an amendment providing a path to citizenship for children living in the United States illegally."

CHILDREN.

But so far as I've seen, that's not the reason they blocked it. There were all kinds of excuses.

College children. That would fast track around those that have already followed the legal process to come to this country.

09/21/2010 09:53:02 PM · #7

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by kawesttex:
Have you served in the military?

No but I spoke to a friend of a friend at length about her getting kicked out for being a lesbian. What's your point?

I didn't have to hear it from a friend of a friend. I worked with people of various lifestyles in the military (20 years). Obviously the friend of a friend was kicked out for probably being aggressive about it or used it to get out because they couldn't handle the military lifestyle. I went in in '72 and if you wanted to stay in all you had to do was follow the rules, no matter what. It's called discipline and is required to perform as a unit. No, it doesn't matter what your sexual patterns are, I would think a sex crazed heterosexual would/could be just as distracting.

09/21/2010 10:07:48 PM · #8

Originally posted by kawesttex:

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by kawesttex:
Have you served in the military?

No but I spoke to a friend of a friend at length about her getting kicked out for being a lesbian. What's your point?

I didn't have to hear it from a friend of a friend. I worked with people of various lifestyles in the military (20 years). Obviously the friend of a friend was kicked out for probably being aggressive about it or used it to get out because they couldn't handle the military lifestyle. I went in in '72 and if you wanted to stay in all you had to do was follow the rules, no matter what. It's called discipline and is required to perform as a unit. No, it doesn't matter what your sexual patterns are, I would think a sex crazed heterosexual would/could be just as distracting.

Or she is obviously a lesbian, in a way that can't be hidden, and some who is homophobic outed her to get her kicked out.

Your "obvious" assumptions that people get kicked out because they don't "follow the rules" is really insulting to the men and women who are serving in the military and getting kicked out for being themselves. Sex crazed? Are you kidding me??? I think you know those exist in the military and rarely get kicked out. I heard all about the military men while I was living in Korea going to hooker hill, some of them even marrying their hookers. But if you are gay, no dice. OUT YOU GO!

09/21/2010 10:09:29 PM · #9

Originally posted by kawesttex:

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by kawesttex:
What the article also doesn't say is that an 'amnesty' program for illegal aliens in the US was tied to this. Really need the whole story, not just a focused rant.

I did know that.

"The legislation's defeat also dashed the hopes of some immigration reform proponents because the bill was to serve as a vehicle for an amendment providing a path to citizenship for children living in the United States illegally."

CHILDREN.

But so far as I've seen, that's not the reason they blocked it. There were all kinds of excuses.

College children. That would fast track around those that have already followed the legal process to come to this country.

If it were up to me, I'd wish to do away with all the immigration bureaucracy in this country and others. We are burning bridges fast and so many parts of the world won't let us in for reciprocity.

Where did you hear college children?

09/21/2010 10:16:34 PM · #10

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by kawesttex:

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by kawesttex:
What the article also doesn't say is that an 'amnesty' program for illegal aliens in the US was tied to this. Really need the whole story, not just a focused rant.

I did know that.

"The legislation's defeat also dashed the hopes of some immigration reform proponents because the bill was to serve as a vehicle for an amendment providing a path to citizenship for children living in the United States illegally."

CHILDREN.

But so far as I've seen, that's not the reason they blocked it. There were all kinds of excuses.

College children. That would fast track around those that have already followed the legal process to come to this country.

If it were up to me, I'd wish to do away with all the immigration bureaucracy in this country and others. We are burning bridges fast and so many parts of the world won't let us in for reciprocity.

Where did you hear college children?

We, the US, are the most tolerant as it is in letting people across our borders. If the current illegal aliens were to cross any other border they would be imprisoned or immediately returned to their country of origin. What would you like next?

The addition to the bill was to allow anyone that served 2 years in the military or in college would be fast tracked to citizenship.

09/21/2010 10:17:50 PM · #11

Originally posted by kawesttex:

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by kawesttex:

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by kawesttex:
What the article also doesn't say is that an 'amnesty' program for illegal aliens in the US was tied to this. Really need the whole story, not just a focused rant.

I did know that.

"The legislation's defeat also dashed the hopes of some immigration reform proponents because the bill was to serve as a vehicle for an amendment providing a path to citizenship for children living in the United States illegally."

CHILDREN.

But so far as I've seen, that's not the reason they blocked it. There were all kinds of excuses.

College children. That would fast track around those that have already followed the legal process to come to this country.

If it were up to me, I'd wish to do away with all the immigration bureaucracy in this country and others. We are burning bridges fast and so many parts of the world won't let us in for reciprocity.

Where did you hear college children?

We, the US, are the most tolerant as it is in letting people across our borders. If the current illegal aliens were to cross any other border they would be imprisoned or immediately returned to their country of origin. What would you like next?

The addition to the bill was to allow anyone that served 2 years in the military or in college would be fast tracked to citizenship.

And the problem with that is?

Sigma 18-250mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS HSM

09/21/2010 10:20:13 PM · #12

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by kawesttex:

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by kawesttex:

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by kawesttex:
What the article also doesn't say is that an 'amnesty' program for illegal aliens in the US was tied to this. Really need the whole story, not just a focused rant.

I did know that.

"The legislation's defeat also dashed the hopes of some immigration reform proponents because the bill was to serve as a vehicle for an amendment providing a path to citizenship for children living in the United States illegally."

CHILDREN.

But so far as I've seen, that's not the reason they blocked it. There were all kinds of excuses.

College children. That would fast track around those that have already followed the legal process to come to this country.

If it were up to me, I'd wish to do away with all the immigration bureaucracy in this country and others. We are burning bridges fast and so many parts of the world won't let us in for reciprocity.

Where did you hear college children?

We, the US, are the most tolerant as it is in letting people across our borders. If the current illegal aliens were to cross any other border they would be imprisoned or immediately returned to their country of origin. What would you like next?

The addition to the bill was to allow anyone that served 2 years in the military or in college would be fast tracked to citizenship.

And the problem with that is?

Count the US enemies that were educated in the US and what additional access would that give them.

eta: I don't have a problem with those that would serve in our military. I served with many foreign nationals in our military. I do have a problem with the college route.

Message edited by author 2010-09-21 22:21:25.

NathanWert

Canon EOS-90D

09/21/2010 10:31:44 PM · #13

Back to the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" issue...

I was in the military and worked with several gay/lesbian people, that everyone in our department KNEW were gay/lesbian. We didn't care then, and would care even less now. They did their job, that's all that mattered.

Well, getting kicked out of a bar in New Orleans mattered to me, but my friend was drunk when (s)he did what (s)he did. Which doesn't excuse it, but damnit all...it was the only strip club we PAID to get into, and we got kicked out within 5 minutes!!!!!

09/21/2010 10:43:26 PM · #14

Originally posted by NathanWert:

That's what I was saying. So many people believe exactly what they read in one article in one paper and haven't lived it. I had the same experience as you and as you said it didn't matter if they did their job.

Sorry about being kicked out of a bar at any time. By the way, how the heck do you get kicked out of a bar in New Orleans. ;-)

09/21/2010 11:52:21 PM · #15

Originally posted by kawesttex:

Originally posted by NathanWert:
Back to the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" issue...

I was in the military and worked with several gay/lesbian people, that everyone in our department KNEW were gay/lesbian. We didn't care then, and would care even less now. They did their job, that's all that mattered.

That's what I was saying. So many people believe exactly what they read in one article in one paper and haven't lived it. I had the same experience as you and as you said it didn't matter if they did their job.

Sorry about being kicked out of a bar at any time. By the way, how the heck do you get kicked out of a bar in New Orleans. ;-)

I'm lost on your argument then? Don't you think they should repeal it then?

09/22/2010 12:18:49 AM · #16

Originally posted by NathanWert:

Right but all it takes is one person to care or have issue with it and out them and their career is shot.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

09/22/2010 06:22:16 AM · #17

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by kawesttex:

Originally posted by NathanWert:
Back to the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" issue...

I was in the military and worked with several gay/lesbian people, that everyone in our department KNEW were gay/lesbian. We didn't care then, and would care even less now. They did their job, that's all that mattered.

That's what I was saying. So many people believe exactly what they read in one article in one paper and haven't lived it. I had the same experience as you and as you said it didn't matter if they did their job.

Sorry about being kicked out of a bar at any time. By the way, how the heck do you get kicked out of a bar in New Orleans. ;-)

I'm lost on your argument then? Don't you think they should repeal it then?

Yes, my beef is you stated the 'Republicans' shot this down. What shot this Defense Budget down was all the BS that they added to the bill, which included the don't ask, don't tell, amnesty. The problem with our Congress is they hide all sorts of stuff we don't know about in bills then blame the other party for not passing legislation.

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

09/22/2010 06:48:46 AM · #18

Originally posted by kawesttex:

You might want to familiarize yourself with the immigration and constitutional laws of some other countries such as Canada and Australia before you make blanket generalizations such as this one. While it is indeed true that the USA does indeed have a monstrous illegal alien problem, it does not follow that your is the most benevolent when dealing with these individuals.

Ray

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

09/22/2010 06:58:20 AM · #19

Originally posted by kawesttex:

Originally posted by escapetooz:
[quote=kawesttex] [quote=NathanWert] Back to the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" issue...

I was in the military and worked with several gay/lesbian people, that everyone in our department KNEW were gay/lesbian. We didn't care then, and would care even less now. They did their job, that's all that mattered.

That's what I was saying. So many people believe exactly what they read in one article in one paper and haven't lived it. I had the same experience as you and as you said it didn't matter if they did their job.

Assuming that you truly believe the comments you just made, then what is the problem with repealing the regulations as they now stand in the military. I had several brothers who enlisted with the USMC and served in Vietnam and other wonderful places and none of them had any problems serving with gays.

If this is truly a "non issue" then why not simply repeal the rules as they currently stand and have everyone playing by the same rules.

Ray

09/22/2010 07:18:25 AM · #20

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by kawesttex:

Originally posted by escapetooz:
[quote=kawesttex] [quote=NathanWert] Back to the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" issue...

I was in the military and worked with several gay/lesbian people, that everyone in our department KNEW were gay/lesbian. We didn't care then, and would care even less now. They did their job, that's all that mattered.

That's what I was saying. So many people believe exactly what they read in one article in one paper and haven't lived it. I had the same experience as you and as you said it didn't matter if they did their job.

Assuming that you truly believe the comments you just made, then what is the problem with repealing the regulations as they now stand in the military. I had several brothers who enlisted with the USMC and served in Vietnam and other wonderful places and none of them had any problems serving with gays.

If this is truly a "non issue" then why not simply repeal the rules as they currently stand and have everyone playing by the same rules.

Ray

Did you read the whole thread or just pick something to comment on? Nothing wrong with just repealing it but the military was not going to look at it unless forced to. You should go talk to our Generals, Admirals, and our beloved Commander in Chief with your words of wisdom.

eta: ... and thank your brothers for me for serving.

Message edited by author 2010-09-22 07:19:53.

Nullix

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

09/22/2010 10:02:00 AM · #21

The bill would also allowed elective abortions to be carried out on military bases at home and abroad.

No wonder it didn't pass.

Judith Polakoff

Nikon D7000

09/22/2010 11:14:45 AM · #22

Originally posted by Nullix:

The bill would also allowed elective abortions to be carried out on military bases at home and abroad.

No wonder it didn't pass.

So what? Abortion is legal in the United States, or have you forgotten that fact?

False Claims About Abortion in Defense Bill

NathanWert

Canon EOS-90D

Sigma 18-250mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS HSM

09/22/2010 11:18:26 AM · #23

Originally posted by kawesttex:

Sorry about being kicked out of a bar at any time. By the way, how the heck do you get kicked out of a bar in New Orleans. ;-)

We paid our money...were walking to our table...and the person I was with started groping the dancers/strippers as (s)he walked by. *sigh* The funny part was (s)he was practically having sex with one of the dancers/strippers at the last bar we were at.

Nullix

Canon EOS-5D Mark III