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08/25/2010 07:52:46 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
An educated voter is dangerous to the far right in the country. |
Education is probably dangerous to the far everything. Earth First? ELF? |
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08/25/2010 07:56:54 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
An educated voter is dangerous to the far right in the country. |
Education is probably dangerous to the far everything. Earth First? ELF? |
Admittedly biased, but I think the right relies on the ignorance of the American public far more than the left does. But your point is taken. |
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08/25/2010 08:02:55 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
An educated voter is dangerous to the far right in the country. |
Education is probably dangerous to the far everything. Earth First? ELF? |
Admittedly biased, but I think the right relies on the ignorance of the American public far more than the left does. But your point is taken. |
When I say things like that it probably leads people to believe I'm a member of the far right. I'm not. Not even a member of the "right". I'm in the middle and probably even left of middle. Just had to state that for the record. :)
I agree, David, that the Right often has some pretty silly arguments. |
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08/25/2010 08:55:34 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
The geography question may have an obvious answer which is we are isolated. If you live in heartland America, you will only find about a dozen countries within a 2500 mile radius of where you live. |
Uh, usually people learn geography from a map -- not from visiting foreign lands -- such maps may even be available in Iowa.
When I was a high school sophomore we had to memorize an outline map (and the capitals) of the US states and of the whole world -- and it was a lot more difficult then, because every couple of weeks a new nation in Africa was throwing off its colonial shackles, declaring independence and changing its name ...
What excuse is there for anyone not knowing the location of a country where we have been at war for nine years? |
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08/25/2010 09:39:11 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
The geography question may have an obvious answer which is we are isolated. If you live in heartland America, you will only find about a dozen countries within a 2500 mile radius of where you live. |
Uh, usually people learn geography from a map -- not from visiting foreign lands -- such maps may even be available in Iowa.
When I was a high school sophomore we had to memorize an outline map (and the capitals) of the US states and of the whole world -- and it was a lot more difficult then, because every couple of weeks a new nation in Africa was throwing off its colonial shackles, declaring independence and changing its name ...
What excuse is there for anyone not knowing the location of a country where we have been at war for nine years? |
Of course you learn from a map, but you care more about learning if your daily life is affected by the facts you are learning. Again, not excusing ignorance, just explaining it.
Americans your age or older are less likely to speak more than one language compared to Americans twenty years of age or younger. Is that because your generation was lazy or stupid? I doubt it. It's because the world is much smaller now and foreign languages are more and more important in our lives these days (with English being the possible "foreign language" to a Spanish speaking American). |
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08/25/2010 10:23:09 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Of course you learn from a map, but you care more about learning if your daily life is affected by the facts you are learning. Again, not excusing ignorance, just explaining it. |
If that were truly the case, then surely the degree of knowledge relative to the Health Care issue would have increased by leaps and bounds... sadly that does not seem to be the case for a good segment of American society. One must also consider the financial crisis that continues to loom over America... have you truly learned from that experience?
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Americans your age or older are less likely to speak more than one language compared to Americans twenty years of age or younger. Is that because your generation was lazy or stupid? I doubt it. It's because the world is much smaller now and foreign languages are more and more important in our lives these days (with English being the possible "foreign language" to a Spanish speaking American). |
This might make an interesting issue of discussion if we compared the youth of America with that of other countries. From a personal perspective, I have found that most Americans that I encountered who speak more than one language are descendants of foreigners.
Ray
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08/25/2010 10:23:31 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Of course you learn from a map, but you care more about learning if your daily life is affected by the facts you are learning. |
9/10 of Americans can't locate Afghanistan, even if the map is narrowed down to Asia. Given that this country was the host of the 9/11 attackers, has been featured almost daily in the news for years, and currently demands a significant fraction of America's resources and military casualties, wouldn't it be fair to say it affects our daily lives? More scary stuff.
Message edited by author 2010-08-25 22:26:47. |
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08/25/2010 10:49:39 PM · #33 |
| Aren't we all ignorant of something? Why should I be afraid of something that is a normal human condition? Quick Scalvert, without looking, of course you've probably poured over the map today, what is the most unusual feature of the shape of Afghanistan? Why is it there? I would suspect only one in one hundred in this country would have that knowledge. Shouldn't scare anyone. |
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08/25/2010 10:52:33 PM · #34 |
| Generalized ignorance of basic facts about the world around you -- particularly in the age of the Internet -- is something to be ashamed of. |
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08/25/2010 10:54:19 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Scary stuff. Only 39 percent of Americans believe in evolution, 20 percent think the sun orbits the earth, and 9 out of 10 can't find Afghanistan on a map of Asia. 40 percent still think healthcare reform includes death panels and that Iraq was involved in 9/11. Over a third can't even name the continent where the Amazon is located.
What's even more appalling than the polls themselves are the article comments as a few people proudly put their ignorance on public display while trying to defend misconceptions. Prime examples: "I'm altogether aware of Darwin's theories and choose not to believe them. Takes a lot more faith to believe we evolved from monkeys than it does to believe what I do. Now, evolution is a part of our world - the caterpillar into the butterfly, for example. I just wish Darwinists could explain to me why the butterfly never evolves into anything else," and, "President Obama's father was a Muslim,therefore,whether he practices the religion or not,he is a Muslim by birth." *sigh* |
And here I thought the theory of evolution was just that, a theory. One that is widely accepted by most scientists, yet still just a theory. So someone actually found empirical proof, heh? Who was that?
Anyway, thank goodness we have a few enlightened individuals like you to tell us what's what, eh?
But wait, does this mean that your belief in an omniscient all-powerful magic ghost in the sky is unfounded? I mean if the Bible lied about creation, who's to say it's not all a pack of lies?
Man, these big questions make my head hurt. I need to relax. I think I'll just go watch reruns of The Dukes of Hazard, drink a few beers, maybe beat the wife a bit. You Big Brains can hash it out amongst yourselves.
Thanks for the laughs. :)
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08/25/2010 10:56:15 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by FireBird:
Aren't we all ignorant of something? Why should I be afraid of something that is a normal human condition? Quick Scalvert, without looking, of course you've probably poured over the map today, what is the most unusual feature of the shape of Afghanistan? Why is it there? I would suspect only one in one hundred in this country would have that knowledge. Shouldn't scare anyone. |
What's your point? Find Afghanistan first - that matters more than a certain feature. |
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08/25/2010 10:58:35 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Mick:
And here I thought the theory of evolution was just that, a theory. One that is widely accepted by most scientists, yet still just a theory. So someone actually found empirical proof, heh? Who was that? |
Umm... 99% of what scientists say are theories. A theory is based on evidence. What are you comparing this theory to, since you call it "just a theory?"
Originally posted by Mick:
Anyway, thank goodness we have a few enlightened individuals like you to tell us what's what, eh? |
Jeez, chill! |
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08/25/2010 11:00:03 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by Mick:
... I mean if the Bible lied about creation, who's to say it's not all a pack of lies? |
Aha...and then there was light.
Originally posted by Mick:
Man, these big questions make my head hurt. I need to relax. I think I'll just go watch reruns of The Dukes of Hazard, drink a few beers, maybe beat the wife a bit. You Big Brains can hash it out amongst yourselves.
Thanks for the laughs. :) |
What... no wrassling? :O)
Ray |
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08/25/2010 11:16:48 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Generalized ignorance of basic facts about the world around you -- particularly in the age of the Internet -- is something to be ashamed of. |
Agreed. If our concept of "basic facts" is about the same. Unfortunately it is not. As for the "age of the Internet", well..... how did you decide the "facts" you found on said Internet, were indeed facts? I think the only one ashamed in this thread, is Scalvert. I think he's ashamed to be associated this ignorant lot. Maybe he should move to a more developed country. Like Canada. :) |
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08/25/2010 11:19:26 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by George:
What's your point? Find Afghanistan first - that matters more than a certain feature. |
No point is required, this was posted in Rant. If you require a point, place your hand on the very top part of your head. :) |
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08/25/2010 11:27:52 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
What's even more appalling than the polls themselves are the article comments as a few people proudly put their ignorance on public display while trying to defend misconceptions. |
Originally posted by Mick:
And here I thought the theory of evolution was just that, a theory. One that is widely accepted by most scientists, yet still just a theory. So someone actually found empirical proof, heh? Who was that? |
Nicely illustrated. A scientific theory is not "just a theory." That's a widely held misconception among the ignorant... which you've just displayed in public. :-/
Message edited by author 2010-08-25 23:48:45. |
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08/25/2010 11:38:49 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by Mick:
And here I thought the theory of evolution was just that, a theory. One that is widely accepted by most scientists, yet still just a theory. So someone actually found empirical proof, heh? Who was that?
Anyway, thank goodness we have a few enlightened individuals like you to tell us what's what, eh?
But wait, does this mean that your belief in an omniscient all-powerful magic ghost in the sky is unfounded? I mean if the Bible lied about creation, who's to say it's not all a pack of lies?
Man, these big questions make my head hurt. I need to relax. I think I'll just go watch reruns of The Dukes of Hazard, drink a few beers, maybe beat the wife a bit. You Big Brains can hash it out amongst yourselves.
Thanks for the laughs. :) |
You may as well include I don't believe in gravity... it is, after all, only a theory.
Please understand what a scientific theory is. From talk origins:
1. The word theory, in the context of science, does not imply uncertainty. It means "a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena" (Barnhart 1948). In the case of the theory of evolution, the following are some of the phenomena involved. All are facts:
* Life appeared on earth more than two billion years ago;
* Life forms have changed and diversified over life's history;
* Species are related via common descent from one or a few common ancestors;
* Natural selection is a significant factor affecting how species change.
Many other facts are explained by the theory of evolution as well.
2. The theory of evolution has proved itself in practice. It has useful applications in epidemiology, pest control, drug discovery, and other areas (Bull and Wichman 2001; Eisen and Wu 2002; Searls 2003).
3. Besides the theory, there is the fact of evolution, the observation that life has changed greatly over time. The fact of evolution was recognized even before Darwin's theory. The theory of evolution explains the fact.
4. If "only a theory" were a real objection, creationists would also be issuing disclaimers complaining about the theory of gravity, atomic theory, the germ theory of disease, and the theory of limits (on which calculus is based). The theory of evolution is no less valid than any of these. Even the theory of gravity still receives serious challenges (Milgrom 2002). Yet the phenomenon of gravity, like evolution, is still a fact.
5. Creationism is neither theory nor fact; it is, at best, only an opinion. Since it explains nothing, it is scientifically useless.
Message edited by author 2010-08-25 23:39:09. |
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08/25/2010 11:59:24 PM · #43 |
Let me see if I can condense what the Vitamin Guy just said:
A phenomenon is observed to exist, and we develop an explanation for how it came into being and how it operates. That explanation is a "theory". If the theory is disproved, it does not change the fact that the phenomenon exists.
How can anyone argue with that? Beats me...
R.
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08/26/2010 12:08:04 AM · #44 |
Afghanistan is a lovely country. Only wish it had fewer problems so more people could see it.
I am quite saddened that I speak only one language fluently, and do not seem to have a knack for learning others. |
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08/26/2010 12:10:48 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by FireBird:
Aren't we all ignorant of something? Why should I be afraid of something that is a normal human condition? Quick Scalvert, without looking, of course you've probably poured over the map today, what is the most unusual feature of the shape of Afghanistan? Why is it there? I would suspect only one in one hundred in this country would have that knowledge. Shouldn't scare anyone. |
You're referring to the "Wakhan Corridor" or "Wakhan Salient", I assume? Which is a byproduct of the "Great Game" of imperialism between Britain and Russia at the end of the 19th century. Afghanistan is an artificial state created by the British as a buffer between the Tajaks and the Pakistanis, basically, and the corridor/salient was designed to deny Russia access to the south. It's really the main reason Russia fought so hard for so long to get Afghanistan under its umbrella.
Is that what you mean?
R.
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08/26/2010 12:28:47 AM · #46 |
Bear cheated! :)
An interesting notion is that the Man of Science (like Scalvert or such) will argue that knowledge of Science is the most important thing to avoid being ignorant on. The historian will argue, instead, that history is what one must not be ignorant about. The mathematician...numbers. The philosopher...philosophy.
Nobody knows everything, but everybody considers what they do know to be "the most important". THAT is human nature. |
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08/26/2010 12:50:04 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Is that what you mean?
R. |
Yes. I always thought that was an unusual feature. I admit I cheated and used the "Internet". I saw it about nine years ago when I was researching Afghanistan at the onset of hostilities. Can't remember which map I used. Some don't show the feature properly. It was probably following some link from the CIA FactBook. No finer propaganda available on the Net at the time. |
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08/26/2010 02:53:34 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Bear cheated! :) |
Actually, Bear knew... Bear thinks it's reasonably important to be well-informed on countries we are at war with/within/on behalf of. It's an attitude that goes all the way back to the Vietnam war, which Bear vehemently opposed.
Moving out of the third person, I've always found it interesting that Afghanistan, as a country, is a Western invention. As, indeed, is Pakistan, and many of the countries in the Middle East. It's no wonder we have so much trouble in these regions...
R.
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08/26/2010 08:49:29 AM · #49 |
| Yeah, all was well until "we" stepped in. |
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08/26/2010 09:12:04 AM · #50 |
| But rather than have the whole Middle East against us for stepping in in the first place, let's step in again and perhaps help right what we effed up, and make a few allies along the way. Had we left and forgotten the Middle East after WWII, we would've been screwed right now. |
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