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03/07/2004 03:14:55 PM · #1 |
When the tax return comes in I will be spending it on a new camera. I plan to spend about 2,000 dollars. Here is the question. I don't want a camera I will outgrow. I don't want to make this purchase again in a loooong looooong time! I want to shot it all... I want to do macros, and portraits,moving subjects,low light, and even the moon on interesting nights.
Would I be better off with a DSLR and a couple of lenses? or something else. I know it has been recommended that you don't neccessarily start out with something too far advanced for your skills ... I guess I am wondering if people can grow into a better camera?
Any thoughts? |
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03/07/2004 03:28:08 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by WildflowerJoy:
When the tax return comes in I will be spending it on a new camera. I plan to spend about 2,000 dollars. Here is the question. I don't want a camera I will outgrow. I don't want to make this purchase again in a loooong looooong time! I want to shot it all... I want to do macros, and portraits,moving subjects,low light, and even the moon on interesting nights.
Would I be better off with a DSLR and a couple of lenses? or something else. I know it has been recommended that you don't neccessarily start out with something too far advanced for your skills ... I guess I am wondering if people can grow into a better camera?
Any thoughts? |
If you want something you can grow into, then an entry level Digital SLR sounds like a good plan - either the 300D or the D70 are the more obvious choices based on what is currently out there, but there are others as well. DPReview.com and searching the forums here will give you loads of feedback and user opinions.
I have the Canon D60, and I like the EOS line a lot, but I am also sort of locked into it now what with having so many lenses. Not a bad line to be locked into though :-). I guess what I am saying is that if you currently own no 35mm gear to help make the transition, you have the freedom of choice.
One other thought - I think I will go cry some now, considering I OWE four grand. No big white lens for me for awhile... |
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03/07/2004 03:32:53 PM · #3 |
I just went through this whole process myself. I chose the 10d even after many people tried to convince me to buy a ZSLR (SLR-like with zoom). They thought the 10d was too advanced and I would get frustrated. Even the guy at the store told me to go ZSLR because "a lot of people have been returning the Rebels". Well, I would say to you, do your research and buy what YOU want, not what someone else wants you to buy. Don't settle for something else because of what other people say.
I've had my 10d for about a month now. Yes, there's a lot to learn, but it's also very user friendly. You can go full-auto, choose aperture or shutter priority, or go fully-manual. It's up to you. I mostly use shutter and aperture priorities. I like having more control than I did with my P&S. I also like knowing that I can buy wider-angle lenses and extreme zoom lenses in the future. ZSLR's didn't go to the extremes that I will want in the future.
If you have 2 grand to spend, you can get the 10d/D100. It was a close race between the Canon and the Nikon and I ultimately went Canon. Both cameras are excellent. It basically depends on what lenses you already have, if any. I was able to get the 10d, the Sigma 2-lens kit, some filters, and the extra protection for about $2,000. No, I didn't get the "best" lenses (the IS and/or L series at $1,000 or more each) but I think my camera takes great pictures without them. Photography is a hobby for me right now I can't see spending that much on one lens....yet.
Best of luck to you in your search!
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03/07/2004 03:53:55 PM · #4 |
| I have been researching dpreview and others but it is so hard to know! So many places tell you to think about the pictures you take and make your decision based on that but I really do want to have the option of doing it all. Where can I learn about lens on a site like dpreview for cameras. What lens would be the minimum to go from macro to moon shots? And does the D70 and the D300 have the ability to do spot metering? Now, on my Olympus I use the infinity setting for several types of shots what would be the equivilant lens for that type of shot? I do have LOTS to learn! |
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03/07/2004 04:03:37 PM · #5 |
You certainly can "grow into" a better camera. Once upon a time, when film was king, an SLR was the only choice for almost everyone but the most basic snapshooter.
If you do seriously consider a DSLR, realize that you will eventually spend more than the $2000 if you really want to get the most out of the camera. Great lenses are very addictive =)
If you think that photography is something that you will always want to do, and you want the greatest flexiblity and best image quality, a DSLR is a good choice. Here are a few pertinent questions...
- Do you have any previous experience with film SLR's, or if not, are you comfortable with a significant learning curve?
- Do you have a good understanding of basic camera settings and how they affect results, e.g. exposure, DoF?
- Are you prepared to do alot of research on which lenses are right for you?
- Are you prepared to carry a much larger/heavier kit into the field?
- Do you plan on printing larger than 8x10 very much?
- Is very low noise a high priority (I'd guess yes since you specifically mentioned low-light photography)
- Can you esily name at least thre areas of photography where a non-DSLR digicam cramps your flexibility?
- Does the thought of cleaning a DSLR sensor frighten the bejesus out of you?
If you answer yes to the above questions, you would probaby enjoy a DSLR. I'm sure others will provide much more food for thought. It's a very nice decision to have to make!
If you don't answer "yes" to the last question, you are certified crazy! (but it's really not that bad).
Remember, when you choose an SLR, you are really choosing a lens system. You can't go wrong with either Canon or Nikon, and I would personally stick to these two unless you KNOW that another system is right for you for the long haul.
Good luck in the decision process! If you seriously consider DSLR, feel free to e-mail me if you have specific questions.
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03/07/2004 04:13:03 PM · #6 |
I just made this same choice with my tax return!
And yes you can spot meter with the 300D! You just have to press AE Lock to activate it. I'm not sure about the D70 but I would bet that it too has the ability to spot meter.
My thoughts when I made this choice.
I already have canon lenses! So Nikon wasn't really an option.
My choice was between the 300D and the 10D.
Pound for pound and dollar for dollar, there is barely any difference
between these two cameras. Both are exceptional! The main difference is really firmware. The 10D offers a little more control and is built a little more rugged. I have had my Elan IIE for about 8 or 9 years and in that time I have never dropped my camera, so rugged is something that I wasn't concerned with! Which leaves the 10D with more control. The biggest complaint that I have noticed about the 300D is that you cannot select partial metering. When in fact you can, you just have to press AE Lock. Considering the price difference between the 300D and 10D, for $600.00 I can press a button to get my partial metering!
I bought the 300D and I have been extremely happy with it!
Just my thoughts on that!
hope you find it useful!
Message edited by author 2004-03-07 16:15:56. |
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03/07/2004 04:32:51 PM · #7 |
I am willing to do research on lenses... but where? I can't seem to find anything that compares and rates the lenses.
I really appreciate the comments and suggestions. I am scared of cleaning a lens and scared of putting it on and taking it off while not dropping it.
I have dropped my Olympus 2100UZ a couple of times... and once I fell while taking pictures and my camera stayed in my hand but I landed first in that hand.... so I better opt for a very sturdy camera!
What lenses would I need to get the same coveage as I have now with a 10x optical zoom? |
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03/07/2004 04:42:28 PM · #8 |
Hi Wildflower
I have a C-2100UZ and a 300D.
I definitly thing DSLR is the way to go, you'll spend more money in the long run but you'll have significantly more flexibility and more room to grow.
With your 2100UZ you have a 10X zoom, which by 35mm standard is 380mm. To get the same zoom on a 300D or 10D (or any camera that uses a 1.6X crop) you'll need a lens that is 237mm.
Hope this is somewhat helpful... if you have any other questions you can feel free to PM me...
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03/07/2004 06:08:33 PM · #9 |
Mary, I just did a quick search for you.
Epinions has reviews on lenses.
Photodo has reviews.
About.com has links to reviews.
Also, PhotoSig allows you to search photos by lenses. (I think it was someone here at DPC that pointed that out not too long ago).
You can also do your own search to find more sites.
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03/07/2004 06:21:44 PM · #10 |
With 2K to spend you can get a nice Canon setup. Go to B&H Photo and shop around. I suggest something likeâ€Â¦
Canon EOS Digital Rebel Camera with 18-55mm EF-S Lens & Lexar 1GB 40x CompactFlash Card. Price After Rebate: $1,209.95
Canon EF 55-200mm f/4.5-5.6 USM II Autofocus Lens. Price: $209.95
Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro Autofocus Lens. Price: $469.95
Total: $1,889,95
This gets you a nice 6.3 megapixel DSLR body with a 1GB CompactFlash card and lenses covering 18-200mm, plus a good 100mm macro lens. You would still have enough for a camera bag and/or other goodies.
Of course, if you’re serious about shooting in low-light you might want to go with faster lenses. But, then you’re talking quite a bit more money per len$. But you could skip the 55-200mm zoom and 100mm macro lenses and get a Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM Autofocus Lens for $629.95. This is a very fast 200mm lens. I had the FD version years ago and I loved it.
Message edited by author 2004-03-07 18:23:56.
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03/07/2004 07:08:28 PM · #11 |
Check out how far that 2k will go if you bought film instead of digital.
used A2- $275 at KEH.com
70-200 f4L $550
100mm macro $450 (not an L but sweet anyway)
17-40 f4L $700
total $1975 with great glass (my lens choices was 24-70L, 100-400L and 100 macro, but I was staying in the 2k price limit)
But yes you would have to buy film. |
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03/07/2004 07:30:09 PM · #12 |
A little more advice for you people with tax returns that you can use to buy cameras - Adjust your withholdings! If you are getting $2000 back from Uncle Sam, or even $1000 back, you are having way too much in taxes withheld from your paycheck, and the government loves those interest-free loans.
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03/07/2004 07:40:08 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by StevePax:
A little more advice for you people with tax returns that you can use to buy cameras - Adjust your withholdings! If you are getting $2000 back from Uncle Sam, or even $1000 back, you are having way too much in taxes withheld from your paycheck, and the government loves those interest-free loans. |
Agreed!!
And I'm ready for another tea party!
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03/07/2004 07:52:45 PM · #14 |
It's a nice savings instrument. I'd never save up the lump sum I get back on my taxes.
Originally posted by StevePax:
A little more advice for you people with tax returns that you can use to buy cameras - Adjust your withholdings! If you are getting $2000 back from Uncle Sam, or even $1000 back, you are having way too much in taxes withheld from your paycheck, and the government loves those interest-free loans. |
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03/07/2004 07:55:40 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Jacko:
It's a nice savings instrument. I'd never save up the lump sum I get back on my taxes.
Originally posted by StevePax:
A little more advice for you people with tax returns that you can use to buy cameras - Adjust your withholdings! If you are getting $2000 back from Uncle Sam, or even $1000 back, you are having way too much in taxes withheld from your paycheck, and the government loves those interest-free loans. |
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Same here... forced savings for me. I'd never save the extra $100 per paycheck we'd get if I adjusted the withholdings. |
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03/07/2004 07:56:27 PM · #16 |
A nice savings instrument with 0% return? Every financial advisor in the world would tell you that's a horrible savings instrument. Whether you can personally save that money is an issue that you would have to resolve.
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03/07/2004 08:02:10 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Niten:
Check out how far that 2k will go if you bought film instead of digital...But yes you would have to buy film. |
and processing (to slide or film) EVERY shot to know which ones to keep. then throwing away the rest that were way to far gone to correct (already paid to process them.) All that equals money. Then not to mention (if slides) you want a print...the cost to have that done. (C:
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03/07/2004 08:03:50 PM · #18 |
Joy, keep this in mind about spot metering when purchasing your DSLR. Canon's 10D or Rebel do not have true spot metering. They have what's called partial metering. The difference is that the circle that defines the area that is being metered is 9.5% of the total frame coverage in the Canons and a true spot meter is usually 2% or less. I'm not sure if Nikon has true spot metering.
This may be a very minor issue anyway as you can get great results either way, but you have to know how to analyze the read outs of a spot meter and what areas to choose to meter (really not a big deal and anyone can learn it).
I have been following similar threads on DPC and from what I have gathered from the people I respect most on this site because of their knowledge and photographic skills, another issue to keep in mind is the sensors (CCD or CMOS). Canon, from what I have heard others say, are gearing towards sensors that are equivalent in size to 35mm. Canon already has a camera body out that is full frame. One advantage to this is that you will be able to use get wider angled shots easier, if that's what you want to shoot (such as landscapes or architectural).
Hope this helps... |
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03/07/2004 08:10:32 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by StevePax:
A nice savings instrument with 0% return? Every financial advisor in the world would tell you that's a horrible savings instrument. Whether you can personally save that money is an issue that you would have to resolve. |
I think for almost everyone, the saving it is the hard part. I have jacked my deductions to 7 last year (single male, house, etc.) and still have about $500 coming back. I could have that extra shipped into a savings account for a camera before it gets to me and I spend it on bills (stupid electricity went up 300% in these parts!!!--AAARRRRGGGHHHH!), but then I am not sure of this next years possible income either (SHOULD be making about $20,000 more this year). I send a big lot to my retirement plan so that I can play with my cameras when I get old, even if I don't remember how. (C:
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03/07/2004 08:33:35 PM · #20 |
$3000 + 0% = > nothing + 8%.
Same as houses, for the most part horrible investments (when you factor in increased insurance, property taxes, repairs, increased heating/cooling bills, etc), but it forces people to build equity because they need to pay their mortgage. Rent an apartment and put the difference you save on property taxes, repairs, increased heating/cooling etc. aside and invest it in a moderately agressive portfolio. You'll have much more equity built up that way after 20 years. I suppose this would make house owners financial idiots?
Originally posted by StevePax:
A nice savings instrument with 0% return? Every financial advisor in the world would tell you that's a horrible savings instrument. Whether you can personally save that money is an issue that you would have to resolve. |
Message edited by author 2004-03-07 20:35:03.
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03/07/2004 08:38:22 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by StevePax:
A little more advice for you people with tax returns that you can use to buy cameras - Adjust your withholdings! If you are getting $2000 back from Uncle Sam, or even $1000 back, you are having way too much in taxes withheld from your paycheck, and the government loves those interest-free loans. |
Ours was an unexpected "windfall" due to selling the house our kids lived in with friends while they went to college. All the improvements we made (new roof, new bedrooms in the unfinished basement, etc...) all got to be tax deductions this year since we sold it. |
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03/07/2004 08:41:59 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by ButterflySis:
Mary, I just did a quick search for you.
Epinions has reviews on lenses.
Photodo has reviews.
About.com has links to reviews.
Also, PhotoSig allows you to search photos by lenses. (I think it was someone here at DPC that pointed that out not too long ago).
You can also do your own search to find more sites. |
Thanks this is helpful. I tried searching but kept coming up with dpreview and other sites that were not about lenses. What search term did you use? |
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03/07/2004 08:43:06 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by StevePax:
A nice savings instrument with 0% return? Every financial advisor in the world would tell you that's a horrible savings instrument. Whether you can personally save that money is an issue that you would have to resolve. |
To each their own, and this is the way it works for us. :-)
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03/07/2004 08:47:20 PM · #24 |
As for rate of return, with savings accounts earning <<3% these days, the differnce between letting Unca Sam keep it for a while and saving it is like what, $15?? Not worth the hassle. If we're within +/- $1000 on witholding, I'm happy!
I shot 5,000 exposures in the past 6 months; at that rate my annual film/processing/printing costs could easily exceed $2500-$3000, assuming I only print 20% of what I shoot. I could therefore make the case that my 10D has paid for itself already... which or course is bunk, I never would have shot 5,000 exposures worth of film.
So the real deal here is that $1500 investment has gone to making me a better photographer; given the trend of my scores, I've got a dubious ROI there as well, LOL.
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03/07/2004 11:30:14 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by WildflowerJoy:
Thanks this is helpful. I tried searching but kept coming up with dpreview and other sites that were not about lenses. What search term did you use? |
You're welcome! I used a few different ones but I think it was "canon nikon lens reviews" that got the best results. I also use ixquick.com for my search engine. If I think of it I'll try to look for more for you tomorrow night.
Jen
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