I think I missed something!!!!! - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

06/21/2010 04:34:00 PM · #1

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong but the U.S. is suffering from huge unemployment. I speak from experience on that one. So when did it become a good idea to cause 100,000 + workers to loose their jobs. I am referring to the banning gulf oil well drilling. When the ban was 1st announced I knew what was going to happen. So as a recap....our economy is suffering, lets lay off tons of people so we collect less taxes and sell less goods. Is anyone here getting the big picture. The rest of the people in the US will be suffering from higher gas cost. This will not only affect the people working on those wells. It will also affect the retailers, restauraunts, and tons of different services. This is going to have a domino effect.

Anyway, I have asked this before. In fact, I ask it every day. Can we afford Obama? Or here is another question. Can we afford Obama for the rest of his four year term?

Message edited by author 2010-06-21 16:34:40.

frisca

Nikon D70

06/21/2010 04:38:43 PM · #2

can the US in all good conscience risk the environmental wellbeing of the whole planet by allowing drilling (deep or shallow) without ensuring there are stringent safety protocols in place that are actually being followed? Those jobs you speak of are meaningless in comparison to the many more lives destroyed by the death of all the shores and waters off the gulf.

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

06/21/2010 04:41:28 PM · #3

If the oceans die, we all die. Simple as that. Is that affordable?

mycelium

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

06/21/2010 04:45:58 PM · #4

Losing jobs from the drilling is certainly uncool. The moratorium may be (I think probably will be) lifted eventually once the controlling regulations get reworked.

And in the meantime, there are gobs of jobs being lost from the devastating effect on sea life--not just jobs, but food. Huge numbers of fishing boats are tied to the docks because no one can go out into the oily muck, and goodness knows how many tons of fish, shrimp, and other commercially harvestable sea life are in the midst of dying.

Allowing more drilling now, and risking another disaster like the currently ongoing one, is not a good option. Better to lose the drilling jobs now; most or all will probably reopen later. Short-term loss for a long-term gain.

Message edited by author 2010-06-21 16:46:59.

frisca

Nikon D70

06/21/2010 04:49:15 PM · #5

and since you exclaimed it in your title, I will confirm for you that are you missing a fair bit.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

06/21/2010 04:51:51 PM · #6

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

Do you even care about what this colossal fuckup from the oil industry has done?

You're whining because it's a good idea to figure out some safeguards, when it's already too late, and bitching 'cause it's going to cost you more at the pump and for shipping costs?

It's called accountability, and it's just a damn shame we have to kill off part of our planet instead of some of these giant companies having a conscience and dealing with things like this before it's a problem.

rooum

06/21/2010 04:54:32 PM · #7

Originally posted by frisca:

and since you exclaimed it in your title, I will confirm for you that are you missing a fair bit.

Thats precisely what i was going to say. For the life of me i can't see why you can't see what is so obviously staring you in the face Adam.

06/21/2010 04:57:25 PM · #8

They could have very easily left the rigs that were in place. Yes the oil spill is horrible. It has severely crippled the seafood industry down here. They should have left the current rigs in place while coming up with revised saftey features and policies. The cleanup of the spill should continue, and as quickly as possible. Also the capping the well should continue.

robs

Canon EOS R6 Mk II

06/21/2010 04:57:30 PM · #9

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

It's called accountability

Unfortunately that concept is the first casuality in this (or the next or next or...) case.... BP will never pay the real cost.... None of us pay the full cost of oil usage - especially in the US.

mycelium

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

06/21/2010 05:04:16 PM · #10

Originally posted by robs:

None of us pay the full cost of oil usage - especially in the US.

Sure we do. We're doing it now. Ha.

We just don't pay it at the pump.

FourPointX

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

06/21/2010 05:05:36 PM · #11

distance is a long range filter....(RUSH)

i can see the obama hatred just as clearly as i could see my own bush hatred for so many years. now, looking back, i see a great deal of it was justified, while a nearly equal amount was silly partisanship.

i think on this matter, your feelings are mostly partisanship. because honestly, if no moratorium were announced and a similar catastrophe occurred while new regs were being put in place...wouldn't you have been shouting for obamas head then as well?

like i said...distance is a long range filter...i can see, now that i'm removed from my blinding anger and hatred, that a lot of my rage was misguided. hopefully somewhere down the road you'll see the same thing...

06/21/2010 05:07:06 PM · #12

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Ok, correct me if I'm wrong but the U.S. is suffering from huge unemployment. I speak from experience on that one. So when did it become a good idea to cause 100,000 + workers to loose their jobs. I am referring to the banning gulf oil well drilling. When the ban was 1st announced I knew what was going to happen. So as a recap....our economy is suffering, lets lay off tons of people so we collect less taxes and sell less goods. Is anyone here getting the big picture. The rest of the people in the US will be suffering from higher gas cost. This will not only affect the people working on those wells. It will also affect the retailers, restauraunts, and tons of different services. This is going to have a domino effect.

Anyway, I have asked this before. In fact, I ask it every day. Can we afford Obama? Or here is another question. Can we afford Obama for the rest of his four year term?

Do you even care about what this colossal fuckup from the oil industry has done?

You're whining because it's a good idea to figure out some safeguards, when it's already too late, and bitching 'cause it's going to cost you more at the pump and for shipping costs?

It's called accountability, and it's just a damn shame we have to kill off part of our planet instead of some of these giant companies having a conscience and dealing with things like this before it's a problem.

Jeb the oil companies should be held accountable and BP will be. I have friends that have worked in the past on shrimp boats. It is effecting them. It is a crying shame that the polices were not in place prior to this spill. We have to play with the cards that have been dealt though. Halting all drilling in the gulf is not the right answer. I also agree that we will be feeling these effects for years. It seems though that everything that Obama touches turns to crap.

mycelium

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

06/21/2010 05:09:39 PM · #13

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

It seems though that everything that Obama touches turns to crap.

Hyperbole, perhaps? If so, I don't think it's helpful if we want to have a real discussion...

I don't think ANYONE has ever been so powerful as that. :P

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

06/21/2010 05:20:45 PM · #14

Does anyone seriously think it would have been a good idea to continue flying the remaining space shuttles after the Challenger disaster just to save the jobs lost by an idled fleet? Resuming the exact same activity that just resulted in an enormously costly disaster is not sane.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

06/21/2010 05:21:19 PM · #15

Originally posted by mycelium:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
It seems though that everything that Obama touches turns to crap.

Hyperbole, perhaps? If so, I don't think it's helpful if we want to have a real discussion...

I don't think ANYONE has ever been so powerful as that. :P

Your right I should have used a different termonology. The only thing is, since Obama has been in office I have agreed with only 3 things that he wanted to do. And you know what...none of them have gone anywhere.

frisca

Nikon D70

06/21/2010 05:58:26 PM · #16

I think its clear you don't like your president: perhaps for personal reasons, perhaps for political reasons, perhaps a mix of both. Whatever the reason, if you're going to object to him or his leadership, I think you need to give more sound reasons than the drilling. Or to re-iterate tired rhetoric like "Can we afford Obama?" It just makes you sound like a parrot repeating the soundbites you've heard on talk radio. Really educate yourself in the areas you are concerning yourself with. I don't mean read partisan sites, I mean do some unbiased, in-depth research and see what YOU think about these areas before you criticise the approach being taken by your leadership.

I personally think your president would be doing a better job if he had people who believed in him and supported him, rather than those looking for any angle to cut him down while he does what is clearly a very challenging job in a very caustic climate.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

06/21/2010 08:40:24 PM · #17

Originally posted by frisca:

This sounds very familliar with quite a few people on this site. I am referring to Bush. There were lots of people on here not giving Bush a chance. Anyway back on Obama. I have done extensive research on the healthcare bill. There is absolutelty no way that we could even come close to paying for this without a MAJOR tax increase.....Here is another one. Obama's green initiative (I respect trying to save the environment) Spain has already tried what Obama is proposing. For every green job given there are 2.3 jobs lost. That is just a start. The man is also trying to socialize our country. He started with the banks and then moved from there. The federal govmt has grown tremendously since he has been in office but the military is shrinking. Go figure.

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

06/21/2010 09:38:01 PM · #18

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

The federal govmt has grown tremendously since he has been in office but the military is shrinking. Go figure.

The military might be shrinking, but the total US military expenditures have grown substantially since 2000. Check This

Ray

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

06/21/2010 09:54:48 PM · #19

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
The federal govmt has grown tremendously since he has been in office but the military is shrinking. Go figure.

The military might be shrinking, but the total US military expenditures have grown substantially since 2000. Check This

Ray

Ray...one major reason that expenditures are up is the fact that they finally upgraded the equipment...When I was active duty 1996 - 2000 I was issued vietnam era equipment...Another big reason...we are funding 2 wars.

Judith Polakoff

Nikon D7000

06/21/2010 10:13:22 PM · #20

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

Halting all drilling in the gulf is not the right answer.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought only the deep-water drilling was halted, accounting for perhaps 12 wells?

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

06/21/2010 10:15:22 PM · #21

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

There were lots of people on here not giving Bush a chance.

What chance was he not given? Whereas Obama has managed to make progress on a number of fronts despite nearly unanimous Republican obstruction (even to ideas that THEY originally supported), at least Bush was given the opportunity to try ideas before they were decried as ruinous. He got his chance on national security and we got 9/11. He got his chance on foreign policy and we got another Vietnam and 4,407 dead U.S. soldiers on a wild goose chase for weapons of mass destruction. He got his chance on crisis management and we got Katrina. He got his chance on the economy and we got record deficits plus the banking and real estate collapses. He got his chance on promoting the image of America as the "good guys" and we got CIA renditions and state sponsored torture. Hardly surprising then that much of Bush's own cabinet resigned during his administration.

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

I have done extensive research on the healthcare bill. There is absolutelty no way that we could even come close to paying for this without a MAJOR tax increase.

How does your extensive research propose we pay for healthcare costs that had already skyrocketed to 16.2% of the GDP by 2008, with diminishing benefits, and were continuing to grow at an annual rate of 4.4% without major reform?

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

The man is also trying to socialize our country.

I'm increasingly convinced that you're among a vocal minority of people here who have little idea what that term means. You only know that it's bad.

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

He started with the banks and then moved from there.

Um, Bush started with the banks and Obama continued that policy. These companies were prevented from failing completely through TARP loans (and taking exponentially more jobs with them than your drilling ban gripe). "Originally expected to cost the U.S. Government $356 billion, the most recent estimates of the cost, as of April 12, 2010, is down to $89 billion, which is 42% less than the taxpayers' cost of the Savings and loan crisis of the late 1980s. While it was once feared the government would be holding companies like GM, AIG and Citigroup for several years, those companies are preparing to buy back the Treasury's stake and emerge from TARP within a year. Of the $245 billion invested in U.S. banks, over $169 billion has been paid back, including $13.7 billion in dividends, interest and other income, along with $4 billion in warrant proceeds as of April 2010." You got a problem with THAT?!?!

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

The federal govmt has grown tremendously since he has been in office but the military is shrinking.

By "tremendously," you mean 0.21%? Or did you mean the size of the bureaucracy and government programs? The largest government expansion of the last 50 years was the Department of Homeland Security, and Bush directed a 61% increase in defense spending, a 32% increase in welfare spending, a 54% increase in Medicare/Medicaid spending, a 43% increase in food stamps and similar programs, a 19% increase in Social Security, a 12% increase in housing assistance, a whopping 129% hike in federal student loans, and so on. The only thing shrinking about the military is the size of the increases: defense spending is UP slightly under Obama (just not as much as the Pentagon wanted). You're barking up the wrong tree.

Message edited by author 2010-06-21 22:19:45.

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

06/21/2010 10:24:42 PM · #22

Originally posted by scalvert[quote=cowboy221977:

The man is also trying to socialize our country.

I'm increasingly convinced that you're among a vocal minority of people here who have little idea what that term means. You only know that it's bad.[/quote]

There is, obviously, no knowing going on here.
There is, obviously, no thinking going on either.
Feeling? My dog is more sensible. He doesn't practice hate.

He's heard that it's bad.
He believes that it's bad.

Judith Polakoff

Nikon D7000

06/21/2010 10:48:34 PM · #23

Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Halting all drilling in the gulf is not the right answer.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought only the deep-water drilling was halted, accounting for perhaps 12 wells?

I was mistaken. The moratorium affects 33 rigs, out of a total of more than 5,000 wells, according to this article.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III