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 06/15/2010 04:58:21 AM · #26
If the recorded conduct was always beneficial to the "officers of the law", this wouldn't be an issue, would it?

This literally turns my stomach.
 06/15/2010 07:35:41 AM · #27
Originally posted by MelonMusketeer:
This was today about lunch time. No problem here with taking photos, but they were not beating anyone up.

These guys didn't seem to have a problem with me taking this......



'Course......I was polite! LOL!!!
 06/15/2010 04:04:40 PM · #28
To say the terrorists have been beaten is so wrong. Terrorists have our governments where they want them, harassing their own citizens.

Osama and his cronies have won this battle and our governments are using that reason for the continuation of the loss of our human rights which took decades to achieve. In 8 1/2 years since 9/11 we have lost so much of our freedoms that the T's must be laughing and celebrating their victories throughout the world.

We got screwed by the T's on 9/11 and it's only going to get worse not because of random terrorist cells planting bombs on trains or in subways but because our governments are going to strip us of all freedoms until they control us like puppets. Guess what? A majority of our populations are all for it too!

We're f***** for many many decades to come.

Doom and gloom post, I know. Prove me wrong.
 06/15/2010 09:53:13 PM · #29
Originally posted by DonnaLu:
If the recorded conduct was always beneficial to the "officers of the law", this wouldn't be an issue, would it?

This literally turns my stomach.


True enough...albeit it does seem that the only other times that police officers are dealt with in the news is when they die in the line of duty... and that also is a sad state of affairs.

Ray
 06/16/2010 01:16:39 AM · #30
Again we are getting off the subject. Calm down, the terrorists are not winning. Loss of freedom and privacy are serious problems but you are misapplying blame. 911 only happened because the leadership of Al Qaeda thought they had an unassailable position in Afghanistan. Now they know no place is entirely safe. They have not launched a major attack in the years since and have been driven into Pakistan. That is a very thorny problem. Pakistan our "friend" doesn't want us to eliminate the terrorists or neutralize Afghanistan because they see them as a tool against their primary foe India. We can't apply too much muscle on Pakistan because they have nukes and are an ally of China. India on the other hand is an ally of Russia and also has nukes. So we are in very sticky wicket with no good options. And all the players have nukes. Imagine being in a dark room with other people and all of you are clutching live grenades with the pins pulled. The best you can do is try not to get kicked in the shins and have your feet stomped, that's our situation in a nut shell.

But none of this touches on the discussion at hand.
So back to the subject. Photojournalism is breathing it's last gasp having been undermined by every clown with a phone camera and the internet. So I am not surprised that the big news agencies aren't using their dwindling funds to fight this battle.
 06/16/2010 03:48:52 AM · #31
Originally posted by Jac:
To say the terrorists have been beaten is so wrong. Terrorists have our governments where they want them, harassing their own citizens.

Osama and his cronies have won this battle and our governments are using that reason for the continuation of the loss of our human rights which took decades to achieve. In 8 1/2 years since 9/11 we have lost so much of our freedoms that the T's must be laughing and celebrating their victories throughout the world.

We got screwed by the T's on 9/11 and it's only going to get worse not because of random terrorist cells planting bombs on trains or in subways but because our governments are going to strip us of all freedoms until they control us like puppets. Guess what? A majority of our populations are all for it too!

We're f***** for many many decades to come.

Doom and gloom post, I know. Prove me wrong.


Jac, you are way off base when you said "Osama and his cronies have won this battle...[they] must be laughing and celebrating their victories throughout the world." From this statement, I'm led to believe that you have NO IDEA why radical Muslims do they things they do. It has NOTHING to do with our freedom(s). If you would like to debate it further, I'll be glad to do so in another thread or via PM so as not to send the current thread spiraling completely out of control. But please refrain from talking about stuff that you have (apparently) no actual knowledge of.

Regarding the OP, this new law is extremely scary. There is a REASON that our Founding Fathers created the 3 Branches of government and that there are checks and balances in place to keep the President, Congress, and Supreme Court in check (although the effectiveness of this system is certainly questionable). Completely innocent citizens (and I'm not saying this from the bastardized liberal media standpoint, but rather old ladies having their weapons confiscated from their home without ever even leaving their house) had their 2nd Amendment rights trampled during Katrina. The Obama Administration blacklisted FOX News for the the use of their 1st Amendment rights. Now we're talking about states taking away the ability of the people to maintain a system of checks and balances within their communities. The sidebar conversation regarding the use of other forms of videotaping (traffic, dashboard, ATM) is compelling; I am extremely interested to see how this plays out over the next few months. (Oh, if you live in Illinois or Massachusetts, how many more warnings do you need before you pack your crap and move?!)

Lastly, I really hope the author of the piece on the Fonz has other articles out there defending our 2nd Amendment rights-but I'm not holding my breath. I'm so tired of the media shouting so loudly for 1st Amendment rights but conveniently ignoring the constant assault on the 2nd Amendment. But, irresponsible reporting is a big reason why many of the current news outlets are going under...so I guess it all works out in the end.

- Alex
 06/16/2010 06:36:14 AM · #32
Originally posted by Alex_Europa:


Regarding the OP, this new law is extremely scary.


I might be wrong, but I seem to recall that the law was passed in 2001?

Ray
 06/16/2010 02:52:10 PM · #33
This video of a Seattle Police Officer taking a swing at a teenage girl has been all over the news since yesterday. LOTS of kids shot video of this incident, which I think is a good thing. To think that they could all be arrested in some states for doing that is worrysome. All that said, I think the cop was justified. In fact, I think if you lay your hands on a cop in the course of them doing their job, I think they have the right to do whatever it takes to subdue and arrest you. We had another incident a short while ago where a crowd gathered around a cop that had stopped someone and the crowd turned on the cop and beat him severely, causing permanent brain damage and he can no longer work in any capacity.
 06/16/2010 03:04:23 PM · #34
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
This video of a Seattle Police Officer taking a swing at a teenage girl has been all over the news since yesterday. LOTS of kids shot video of this incident, which I think is a good thing. To think that they could all be arrested in some states for doing that is worrysome. All that said, I think the cop was justified. In fact, I think if you lay your hands on a cop in the course of them doing their job, I think they have the right to do whatever it takes to subdue and arrest you. We had another incident a short while ago where a crowd gathered around a cop that had stopped someone and the crowd turned on the cop and beat him severely, causing permanent brain damage and he can no longer work in any capacity.


Man! He clocked her good! Yes, I agree he was justified in this case so the video is a good thing. It will vindicate him in the end.
 06/16/2010 09:17:18 PM · #35
I have to disagree with Kelll. This was an obvious case of too much force. While the woman that was struck was interfering with an officer in the course of his duty I doubt a blond would in Beverly Hills would have been punched. The officer should have had numerous moves that would have restrained her. He should have requested back up. She deserved to be arrested not punched. Would you have called it justified if a man punched his wife or daughter? She did not strike him. There were other options.
 06/16/2010 09:33:56 PM · #36
The thing is, it shouldn't matter whether you're black, white, yellow, brown, purple, man or woman. Everyone knows you should never lay a hand on a cop. Maybe it was a gut reaction on his part, maybe it was too much, but he was trying to arrest someone and no one should have interfered. I have friends who are cops, and I've made enemy's out a few in my younger years. I know some that would do anything for you and some that would make up charges against you just to make themselves feel good. The fact is a cop is a human being, with all the faults that entails. I believe you should be able to take pictures of them & video them. It's for everyones protection.
 06/16/2010 11:35:00 PM · #37
There are hundreds of vids like that on youtube if you search "police brutality". There are a lot of arrests in the US daily, and some of them have to go wrong. There are some though, in which the police are just totally out of hand.
The vids are the most powerful way to expose this sort of violence to anyone that these particular people (officers) want to rough up. Without the possibility of them getting caught on camera, they know that they could continue to do as they please and never get busted.
On the other hand, there are cases where a video has exonerated a cop who was in the right, and accused of a misdeed.
Re the states with the " both party concent" laws, does that make it illegal there to use surveillance cameras to protect businesses, and possibly record crimes like robberies?
06/17/2010 03:10:56 AM · #38
Cell phone video is a major component of the prosecution evidence in the current murder trial of Johannes Meserle (sp?) -- former BART (transit district) police officer -- for the slaying of Oscar Grant. The killing occurred in Oakland, the trial is being held in Los Angeles.
 06/17/2010 08:27:56 AM · #39
The biggest problem with that video is that he couldn't control a female (who did not look overly strong or aggressive). If he had the cuffs on the other one quickly, it never would have gotten that out of hand. Did you see how long it took him?! I fear for that cop if he ever came up against a 200 lbs, angry man. He wouldn't be able to handle himself. He was slow and ineffectual and unable to deal with the first woman, and that's what started it all.

btw, she was completely wrong for putting her hands on a cop. They have the right to respond when threatened, and they don't have the luxury to assume that the person is harmless. It's possible that she could have been someone going after his gun. Police take their lives into their hands to do the job. There have been too many policeman who assume that someone is harmless and find themselves dead. But, it certainly doesn't look like he knows how to subdue a suspect. He brought this on himself.

Message edited by author 2010-06-17 08:28:52.
 06/17/2010 12:22:38 PM · #40
Originally posted by vawendy:
The biggest problem with that video is that he couldn't control a female (who did not look overly strong or aggressive). If he had the cuffs on the other one quickly, it never would have gotten that out of hand. Did you see how long it took him?! I fear for that cop if he ever came up against a 200 lbs, angry man. He wouldn't be able to handle himself. He was slow and ineffectual and unable to deal with the first woman, and that's what started it all.

btw, she was completely wrong for putting her hands on a cop. They have the right to respond when threatened, and they don't have the luxury to assume that the person is harmless. It's possible that she could have been someone going after his gun. Police take their lives into their hands to do the job. There have been too many policeman who assume that someone is harmless and find themselves dead. But, it certainly doesn't look like he knows how to subdue a suspect. He brought this on himself.


The reason the cop had difficulty with the first female is that he was obviously trying to minimize his use of force with her. She was not a physical threat and he had no reason to use more force than necessary to control her, perhaps he should have used more, but it's hard to tell, since the video doesn't indicate why she was being detained or what happened prior to the video, perhaps he feared a physical reaction from the crowd had he simply overpowered her. Once the second female became involved, he was outnumbered and had every reason to fear for his safety as the second female could have tried to get his gun, attacked him physically or incited the crowd to attack him en masse. The second female is lucky that the officer displayed as much restraint as he did.

ETA: An AP story about the incident


Message edited by author 2010-06-17 12:27:44.
 06/17/2010 02:54:50 PM · #41
you've got to be kidding!?! This was about jay walking? Amazing.
 06/17/2010 04:03:10 PM · #42
Originally posted by vawendy:
you've got to be kidding!?! This was about jay walking? Amazing.

amazing that people don't respect police, if that's what you mean, regardless of the nature of the crime
 06/17/2010 04:19:28 PM · #43
In this situation the cop reacted accordingly. He was out numbered and he was attracting a crowd and we all know what can happen when a crowd becomes a mob. Mob mentality sets in and anything goes. If I were the cop I would have brought her down ASAP and cuffed her. Then I would have called for backup immediately with a warning that this could turn into a Rodney King incident. The cop failed in his duty to subdue the first aggressor and that's what made the situation very volatile. This could have turned out very differently if the crowd started to get into the action.

Personally, I would have loved to see the cop bitchslap her silly, she deserved it. :)
 06/17/2010 06:19:01 PM · #44
Originally posted by BeefnCheez:
Originally posted by vawendy:
you've got to be kidding!?! This was about jay walking? Amazing.

amazing that people don't respect police, if that's what you mean, regardless of the nature of the crime


Yes, actually that is what I mean. If any of those were my kids, they'd be grounded for the next 38 years. Idiots.

However, I bet the cop is hating the fact that it was all just for jay walking.
06/17/2010 08:02:49 PM · #45
Originally posted by Jac:
In this situation the cop reacted accordingly. He was out numbered and he was attracting a crowd and we all know what can happen when a crowd becomes a mob. Mob mentality sets in and anything goes. If I were the cop I would have brought her down ASAP and cuffed her. Then I would have called for backup immediately with a warning that this could turn into a Rodney King incident. The cop failed in his duty to subdue the first aggressor and that's what made the situation very volatile. This could have turned out very differently if the crowd started to get into the action.

Personally, I would have loved to see the cop bitchslap her silly, she deserved it. :)


Jac, I (once again) think you are way off base. Just out of curiosity, what law enforcement background do you have?

- Alex
 06/17/2010 08:18:32 PM · #46
FYI: The cop had already called for backup. He was trying to get control of the first girl as the second jumped in. According to local polls about this incident, the overwhelming majority of people side with the cop. However, there are some minority community leaders that are blowing this up into a racial incident - IMO, that is the type of thing that encourages kids to continue to challenge police, be disrespectful, cause a scene and hope to generate a lawsuit.
 06/17/2010 10:14:56 PM · #47
Originally posted by Alex_Europa:
Originally posted by Jac:
In this situation the cop reacted accordingly. He was out numbered and he was attracting a crowd and we all know what can happen when a crowd becomes a mob. Mob mentality sets in and anything goes. If I were the cop I would have brought her down ASAP and cuffed her. Then I would have called for backup immediately with a warning that this could turn into a Rodney King incident. The cop failed in his duty to subdue the first aggressor and that's what made the situation very volatile. This could have turned out very differently if the crowd started to get into the action.

Personally, I would have loved to see the cop bitchslap her silly, she deserved it. :)


Jac, I (once again) think you are way off base. Just out of curiosity, what law enforcement background do you have?

- Alex


Are you suggesting all of his post is off base... or only portions of it.

Just out of curiousity... do you have a background in law enforcement?

Ray

Message edited by author 2010-06-17 22:18:06.
 06/18/2010 12:00:54 AM · #48
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by Alex_Europa:
Originally posted by Jac:
In this situation the cop reacted accordingly. He was out numbered and he was attracting a crowd and we all know what can happen when a crowd becomes a mob. Mob mentality sets in and anything goes. If I were the cop I would have brought her down ASAP and cuffed her. Then I would have called for backup immediately with a warning that this could turn into a Rodney King incident. The cop failed in his duty to subdue the first aggressor and that's what made the situation very volatile. This could have turned out very differently if the crowd started to get into the action.

Personally, I would have loved to see the cop bitchslap her silly, she deserved it. :)


Jac, I (once again) think you are way off base. Just out of curiosity, what law enforcement background do you have?

- Alex


Are you suggesting all of his post is off base... or only portions of it.

Just out of curiousity... do you have a background in law enforcement?

Ray


Basically in no way do I think the cop acted accordingly. First, if you're going to escalate the force to slamming your suspect onto the hood of your car, then a) you shouldn't slam her on her back, that doesn't do you ANY good since you STILL can't handcuff her, and b) once you've gone to that level, then you can't let them get back up and try to reason with them. Next, law enforcement officers are not trained to punch people in the nose, ESPECIALLY if someone just grabbed their arm. You can't make the argument that he didn't know if she was reaching for his gun; she grabbed his left arm and his firearm is on his right. Jac WAS correct that the officer should have taken them down immediately instead of dancing around with them.

Regarding my experience, in my 10 years in the military I have spent time as a patrol officer, criminal investigator, and anti-terrorism officer. I have also served on an NCIS counter-surveillance team, been a member of a SORT, worked detainee operations, and spent time downrange on protective service detail.

- Alex
 06/18/2010 12:36:08 PM · #49
Here's another video, this time there is also a brief panel discussion about whether the wiretap law in Maryland applies.
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