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03/01/2004 07:43:10 AM · #1 |
| I looked around out of curiosity and I noticed the D70 isn't very expensive. Why is that? Is there something wrong with it? Am I crazy or something? (You dont have to answer that one...) |
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03/01/2004 07:44:30 AM · #2 |
| Depends what you call expensive. :-) The Sony F828, Canon 300D, Canon 10D, and Nikon D100 are all in a similar sort of range.. |
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03/01/2004 07:45:02 AM · #3 |
d70 is like d100 as
300dRebel is to the 10d.
Edit: If you sell the body cheap they are bound to buy more lenses. I would assume it's like video games in which they hardly make money or very little off the device and sell addons that will make money.
Message edited by author 2004-03-01 07:49:16. |
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03/01/2004 07:50:21 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by faidoi:
d70 is like d100 as
300dRebel is to the 10d.
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NO, NO, NOOOOOOO.
The D70 is equal to the D100 in most aspects, better in some. Check out Comparison of D70 and D100 at DPReview for full details. |
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03/01/2004 07:53:51 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by Koriyama:
Originally posted by faidoi:
d70 is like d100 as
300dRebel is to the 10d.
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NO, NO, NOOOOOOO.
The D70 is equal to the D100 in most aspects, better in some. Check out Comparison of D70 and D100 at DPReview for full details. |
Actually looks like some of the specs are better then the D100. Is there a film camera lens compatible with the D70? I guess the battle of DSLRs really begins.
Message edited by author 2004-03-01 07:56:19. |
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03/01/2004 07:56:16 AM · #6 |
I guess what I'm really trying to get at is..
10D or D70? Is spending a bit less money worth it in the case of the D70? Or should I stick with my original decision? |
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03/01/2004 08:24:29 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by BigSmiles:
I guess what I'm really trying to get at is..
10D or D70? Is spending a bit less money worth it in the case of the D70? Or should I stick with my original decision? |
At this point unless you have a current investment in lenses that would push you either way, I would sit tight and wait to some good, full reviews with sample pix, e.g. from DPReview.
The D70 does look like a lot of functionality for the money, and both the Nikon and Canon lens systems are great; and when you buy a DSLR, that is what you are buying into is the system, I guarantee you will spend more on lenses than the body, by a long shot.
Bottom line, you prolly can't go wrong with either, but if I were in your shoes, I'd wait until the final reviews of the D70 hit the street and then make the choice. Do lens research in the meantime; that could occupy ALL your time.
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03/01/2004 09:21:53 AM · #8 |
Just a couple points:
First, the 10D is a great camera with a proven performance record and is available now.
Second, remember that Nikon does not have a full-frame DSLR. They seem "OK" with continuing to use an APS film-sized sensor (which provides a 1.5X crop factor) even in their top-of-the-line bodies. The D70 "kit" comes with a specialized "DX" series lens that will only work on these APS-sized sensor bodies. Nikon also has 3 other DX-series lenses with more on the way. If you make an investment in DX-series Nikon glass, you will be "stuck" using bodies with this sensor configuration (unless you start over by selling your glass and buying the non-DX versions). Canon already has a full-frame digital body available and all of Canon's lenses that can be purchased at retail will work on any Canon body -- film or digital.
Third, Canon's lens line-up is larger, more varied, more feature-laden and higher-rated on sites like PhotoDo when compared to Nikon. It is also less expensive. The extra money spent buying a 10D instead of a D70 could easily be made up for by the time you buy a couple Canon lenses instead of Nikon's. For example, the Canon 300mm/4L Image Stabilizer (IS) lens is $1,139 at B&H. Oops. Nikon doesn't have a comparable lens, because they don't offer a 300mm/4 with Vibration Reduction (VR). As a matter of fact, Nikon doesn't make any primes (non-zoom lenses) with Vibration Reduction! So if you want a Nikon 300mm/4, you can pay almost the same price ($1,119) (or more -- $1,159 -- if you want the "light grey" version) and have a lens with less capability. Or, for a closer comparison (but still not quite identical because the Canon lens goes wider): the Canon 24-70/2.8 ($1,179) vs. the Nikon 28-70/2.8 ($1,339).
Fourth, more and more professional photographers are switching from Nikon to Canon all the time. See this and numerous other threads for examples that say stuff like:
Originally posted by .:
>> Is the grass really greener on the other side?
Unfortunately yes, it is much greener. My guess would be that 3/4ths of the pros on this forum were once Nikon shooters... |
Message edited by author 2004-03-01 09:50:28. |
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03/01/2004 09:36:31 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by EddyG:
Third, Canon's lens line-up is larger, more varied, more feature-laden and higher-rated on sites like PhotoDo |
Completely agree, Eddy. The more I have my DSLR the more I realise glass is the most important aspect. Whether you've got a 300D, 10D or D70 behind your lens, if you can't get the right lens for the job, the camera is practically useless (believe me I've been there)..
I'd definitely recommend looking at what lenses you want NOW, and what lenses you INTEND to buy. You may find the decision on body is made for you. |
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03/01/2004 10:02:57 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by EddyG:
Just a couple points:
First, the 10D is a great camera with a proven performance record and is available now.
Second, remember that Nikon does not have a full-frame DSLR. They seem "OK" with continuing to use an APS film-sized sensor (which provides a 1.5X crop factor) even in their top-of-the-line bodies. The D70 "kit" comes with a specialized "DX" series lens that will only work on these APS-sized sensor bodies. Nikon also has 3 other DX-series lenses with more on the way. If you make an investment in DX-series Nikon glass, you will be "stuck" using bodies with this sensor configuration (unless you start over by selling your glass and buying the non-DX versions). Canon already has a full-frame digital body available and all of Canon's lenses that can be purchased at retail with work on any Canon body -- film or digital.
Third, Canon's lens line-up is larger, more varied, more feature-laden and higher-rated on sites like PhotoDo when compared to Nikon. It is also less expensive. The extra money spent buying a 10D instead of a D70 could easily be made up for by the time you buy a couple Canon lenses instead of Nikon's. For example, the Canon 300mm/4L Image Stabilizer (IS) lens is $1,139 at B&H. Oops. Nikon doesn't have a comparable lens, because they don't offer a 300mm/4 with Vibration Reduction (VR). As a matter of fact, Nikon doesn't make any primes (non-zoom lenses) with Vibration Reduction! So if you want a Nikon 300mm/4, you can pay almost the same price ($1,119) (or more -- $1,159 -- if you want the "light grey" version) and have a lens with less capability. Or, for a closer comparison (but still not quite identical because the Canon lens goes wider): the Canon 24-70/2.8 ($1,179) vs. the Nikon 28-70/2.8 ($1,339).
Fourth, more and more professional photographers are switching from Nikon to Canon all the time. See this and numerous other threads for examples that say stuff like:
Originally posted by .:
>> Is the grass really greener on the other side?
Unfortunately yes, it is much greener. My guess would be that 3/4ths of the pros on this forum were once Nikon shooters... |
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First off let me say that I am a Canon fan, and would not consider Nikon cameras or lenses, my post is purely to provide an arguement to your previous post Eddy.
The 10D might have a proven track record, but Nikon just like Canon have a proven track record in being able to designed both cameras and lenses.
In all things electronics whatever comes later will generally be better than what has come before.
Full frame sensors are generally a waste of money and effort, and do not bring too many advantages to digital cameras. There are far better ways to improve on current sensors than increasing the size. It is also worth a note that Canon lenses only provide optimum performance at a full frame sensor -- that means buying the 1DS. It is also worth noting that almost no digital SLR camera available at the moment has the required pixel spacing to be within the resolving power of the lenses available for the cameras. This means that current cameras are limited by the lenses -- and I have yet to see any evidence that all lens manufacturers do not use glass from exactly the same glass manufacturer. This means that all lenses have the same inherent resolving power limits.
Also Nikon have at least standardised on one sensor size, Canon currently have three sensor size is available in their digital SLR lineup -- it is a credit to Canon's current reputation that they can afford to do this, but it does have several downsides. The main one being that lenses for the 10D will always be designed for full frame cameras and you will get a significant drop of in quality as a result of this. The same problem does not befall current Nikon digital SLR's.
Canon's lens lineup might be larger than Nikons, but I think if you have a look at all lenses available for both systems then you will find that the total difference is still only about five or ten. The main point being that there are many independent lens manufacturers that make lenses for both systems, and the difference in quality of Canon and Nikon's own lenses is not much greater than the quality of lenses from independent manufacturers.
As to Canon currently being in the lead in terms of digital SLRs, that is without a doubt true. However there is always a leader and everyone else has to play catch up. Canon's biggest advantage until recently was that they were the only company making their own cameras and sensors, so they could optimise both to what they were attempting to achieve. Nikon have now also gone down this route -- the results remain to be seen.
At present Canon also produced some of the best sensors in digital cameras, and are of course also renowned for the quality of the lenses. However Nikon's lenses are also of premium quality, and whilst the jury is out on their new JFET sensor, if it lives up to the hype then it could beat the Canon CMOS sensor.
Like most people I would recommend that you wait a few months before deciding which camera to buy, and deciding which camera system as a whole to buy into. It is worth noting that the current design of SLRs came from a revolutionary design from a company called Olympus. The same company is currently attempting to revolutionise the digital camera world. It is without a doubt true that the four thirds system as it is today could easily become the cheapest and most affordable high-quality system on the market. Whether or not this system will become popular with professionals is the main issue.
I said at the start that I like Canon, and I would not consider Nikon cameras. The only system that I could see interesting me other than the Canon system would be the Olympus system that is available. At present the sensor is a two year old design and is therefore not up to scratch, but several new cameras in that system will be available in the near future. The other main thing to note about this particular system is that all four thirds lenses were designed specifically for that type of sensor. The result of this is a higher quality image -- in this case meaning more saturation, more contrast and sharper.
The main problems with the current Kodak sensor in the Olympus camera that it is both noisy and has a tendency to moire -- however both of these problems can be sorted in software. The added sharpers of four thirds lenses cannot be compensated for particularly easily in software.
But then again everyone has their own opinion. |
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03/01/2004 12:08:30 PM · #11 |
GRRRR.... All this stuff makes it really hard to choose a DSLR Camera, but I guess I'm pushed once again back into the 10D as it looks like the best bang for the buck in the long haul...
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03/01/2004 12:43:34 PM · #12 |
sn4psh07.....
Thank you for your contribution to this discussion. I sincerly appreciate your insight and measured discourse.
Flash
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