How stupid are religious leaders?

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/25/2010 08:59:17 PM · #176

The statement was in reference to worshiping idols, which was very prevalent at the time. Study it a bit and you will see.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

04/25/2010 09:34:02 PM · #177

Originally posted by David Ey:

The statement was in reference to worshiping idols, which was very prevalent at the time. Study it a bit and you will see.

Oh don't worry about them David. They are just being silly.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

04/25/2010 10:01:21 PM · #178

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by David Ey:
The statement was in reference to worshiping idols, which was very prevalent at the time. Study it a bit and you will see.

Oh don't worry about them David. They are just being silly.

OK by me ... ;-)
[Middle English]seli, silli, blessed, innocent ... from [Old English] gesÃ¦lig, blessed.

Timosaby

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

04/26/2010 08:59:20 AM · #179

If you think "promiscuity causes earthquakes" bit is funny, wait till you read the reasoning behind why women aren't allowed to drive here in Saudi. I think theres a youtube video covering the topic somewhere, quite sad really. I wonder are there any other countries left in the world where women are banned from driving cars?

Louis

Nikon D800

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

04/26/2010 12:11:04 PM · #180

Originally posted by Timosaby:

I don't think so. Are you allowed to criticize? I'm genuinely curious. Do the religious police patrol the websites you visit, and do they care what you write? Is it similar to China, where the state is deeply concerned with its citizens' online activity? Or is it less like that?

Timosaby

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

04/26/2010 12:46:11 PM · #181

I'm definitely putting myself at a little risk by writing something up here. The thing is its not the gov that's standing in the way of allowing women to drive, it's actually the ultra religious groups that wholeheartedly believe that its safer and more holy for a woman not to drive. Our king has no issues with women driving.

The religious police or "mutawwa" aren't that sophisticated to hound onliners yet, they spend most of their days busting alcohol and hashish smugglers, driving around in their American GMC SUV's broadcasting to people around malls and supermarkets to go pray via loudspeaker. Their harrassment is most felt if you're a shop owner, they make all shopkeepers close 5 times a day for each prayer (i.e. morning, noon, afternoon, sunset, and evening) which makes shopping quite difficult at times. Each prayer can take between 20 to 30 minutes. When i go to malls here and prayer calls, you see hordes of people just sitting around and waiting for the stores to open, barely anyone actually goes to pray its pretty funny. The population here is very divided on them, some back them up 100% while others just want to see them vanish. Some go as far as calling them to the "scene of the crime" when they suspect that a non-married couple are on a date in some restaurant.

I would say the only sensitive issue here in terms of online activity (aside from porn) is political activity that directly targets the government. They clamp down on that stuff in microseconds. Not to mention terrorism suspicions.

So to answer your question, yes, you're allowed to criticize, just as long as the government agrees with you :)

I honestly have no clue what its like in china so i couldn't tell you who's worse off. But at least women drive there :)

Louis

Nikon D800

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

04/26/2010 02:25:14 PM · #182

Thanks so much. That's very interesting... I've always wondered about how things were there. My brother in-law used to have to travel to Saudi Arabia on business, and told me that the general population isn't really in line with the religious authorities... he said that, for example, people tend to go to on vacation to the seaside in another country (don't know which one) and wear bikinis in direct violation of rules of modesty in their country, and that men will imbibe when they go on trips to foreign parts where alcohol is available. Thanks again for the information, it's very interesting.

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

04/26/2010 02:46:24 PM · #183

Originally posted by Timosaby:

I honestly have no clue what its like in china so i couldn't tell you who's worse off. But at least women drive there :)

Which if you have seen women drivers in China may prove the point of the Saudi ultra religious groups' contention on safety ;)

one2one

Olympus E-5

Olympus 7-14mm f/4.0 Zuiko Digital Zoom

04/26/2010 05:40:35 PM · #184

Originally posted by scalvert:

Getting back to the OP... ;-D

I wish I had cleavage, I could have used an earthquake to get off work.

Doc, you would be a great atheist, if only you had the balls. ;)

04/26/2010 08:25:22 PM · #185

Originally posted by David Ey:

The statement was in reference to worshiping idols, which was very prevalent at the time. Study it a bit and you will see.

...If you are referring to my post, I would strongly recommend that you read it again... perhaps then you might gain a full appreciation of exactly what it was that I was alluding to...hint, look at Doc's response and go from there. :O)

Ray

04/26/2010 08:31:26 PM · #186

Actually it was in response to Mr. Scalvert's quote.

""Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

Message edited by author 2010-04-26 20:33:43.

04/26/2010 08:34:28 PM · #187

I thank you for the clarification Mr. Ey... and my apologies for misinterpreting your comments. :O)

Ray

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/26/2010 08:35:37 PM · #188

I'm so misunderstood :{

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

04/26/2010 08:54:10 PM · #189

Originally posted by David Ey:

Actually it was in response to Mr. Scalvert's quote.
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

That would be quoted from the supposed Word of God, and according to the part Ray highlighted, any likeness of Jesus, Mary, the cross, etc. would also run afoul of the commandment. Yet you'd be hard pressed to find a devout believer without a cross or other religious symbols around.

04/26/2010 09:00:52 PM · #190

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by David Ey:
Actually it was in response to Mr. Scalvert's quote.
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

That would be quoted from the supposed Word of God, and according to the part Ray highlighted, any likeness of Jesus, Mary, the cross, etc. would also run afoul of the commandment. Yet you'd be hard pressed to find a devout believer without a cross or other religious symbols around.

...and you forgot to mention the "Glow in the dark statues", scapulars, rosaries and a host of other "Protect me from evil" accessories.

Ray

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

04/27/2010 10:45:16 AM · #191

Well Ray, I don't have any of these things. As I said, The quote is in regard to things not to be worshipped. ie: "worship only the Lord thy God"

Strikeslip

Canon EOS-5D

04/27/2010 12:38:09 PM · #192

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by David Ey:
Actually it was in response to Mr. Scalvert's quote.
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

That would be quoted from the supposed Word of God, and according to the part Ray highlighted, any likeness of Jesus, Mary, the cross, etc. would also run afoul of the commandment. Yet you'd be hard pressed to find a devout believer without a cross or other religious symbols around.

...and you forgot to mention the "Glow in the dark statues", scapulars, rosaries and a host of other "Protect me from evil" accessories.

Ray

Having recently bought a car from a dealership, it seems to me that a good sales tactic is being employed via religious accessories. It's like offering rust insurance for four years, but that's tough to sell by itelf. The solution is to sell a grossly overpriced electronic gizmo, which is supposed to repel rust from your car, and warranty it for four years. There's you tangible accessory.

04/27/2010 09:00:21 PM · #193

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by David Ey:
Actually it was in response to Mr. Scalvert's quote.
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

That would be quoted from the supposed Word of God, and according to the part Ray highlighted, any likeness of Jesus, Mary, the cross, etc. would also run afoul of the commandment. Yet you'd be hard pressed to find a devout believer without a cross or other religious symbols around.

...and you forgot to mention the "Glow in the dark statues", scapulars, rosaries and a host of other "Protect me from evil" accessories.

Ray

Having recently bought a car from a dealership, it seems to me that a good sales tactic is being employed via religious accessories. It's like offering rust insurance for four years, but that's tough to sell by itelf. The solution is to sell a grossly overpriced electronic gizmo, which is supposed to repel rust from your car, and warranty it for four years. There's you tangible accessory.

True, but if your car does develop rust within the four year period stipulated in your warranty, and working on the premise that you met all of the conditions contained in the said warranty, then you could always go back to the dealership and raise cain...not so much in the case of religious artifacts...you are pretty much on your own. :O)

Ray

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

04/27/2010 09:06:24 PM · #194

Thats right Ray. No one has ever gotten a refund on a case of religious artifacts that I know of.

Nullix

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

04/28/2010 07:58:05 PM · #195

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by scalvert:
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

That would be quoted from the supposed Word of God, and according to the part Ray highlighted, any likeness of Jesus, Mary, the cross, etc. would also run afoul of the commandment. Yet you'd be hard pressed to find a devout believer without a cross or other religious symbols around.

The bible is so confusing. One moment, God says not to make likenesses of anything that is in heaven. Then in Exodus 25:18 he orders that the Ark of the Covenant be adorned with two statues of cherubim. Later still, Solomon, following the will of the Lord, installs giant statues of cherubim in the sanctuary of the Temple in Jerusalem (1 Kgs. 6:23-35).

I wonder what that commandment means. God isn't saying that we shouldn't make statues. He's saying that we shouldn't worship them or the false gods they may represent. He is forbidding idolatry. He is not forbidding artwork that draws our hearts and minds closer to him.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/28/2010 08:29:05 PM · #196

Of course Shannon isn't going to see it that way. The whole command, in the NIV is as follows:

You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them.

The hebrew word there is "pecel" and Strong's defines it as "idol, image". You are obviously correct on the meaning of the verse.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

04/28/2010 10:22:50 PM · #197

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

...and considering that no one has come back from the heaven above or the earth below, I guess that leaves us wondering just what it is that humans can't make idols of.

Also, when one considers all of the items used during mass in a Roman Catholic church, one would seriously wonder whether they are reading the same book.

Ray

Nullix

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

04/29/2010 12:00:05 AM · #198

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Also, when one considers all of the items used during mass in a Roman Catholic church, one would seriously wonder whether they are reading the same book.

Really? Which items? I know we have a crucifix and candles. I know there's the "Stations of the Cross" to remember the passion of the crucifixion. A statue of Mary and Joseph. Also a statue of Jesus and his sacred heart in the entry way.

These aren't idol. We don't worship the crucifix, paintings, or statues. They're just like reminders.