Bird / Nature Photography - Want to Know How?

04/07/2010 01:59:44 PM · #176

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I got another question. Do you tend to set your AF to center only? or do you allow the camera to pick any of the AF spots? I'm torn because it seems like center only makes it less likely the AF will suddenly go way off the bird (assuming it's in motion), but it also seems like it would make it harder since you now have to be sure to leave that center spot on the bird while it is in motion.

I think I mainly use center only, but now I'm wondering if I'm making things harder?

I echo this question. I am disappointed that autofocus is not making my life easier...

JB...when is your book coming out...the latest lesson is a wonderful read...THANK YOU!!!

04/07/2010 11:54:24 PM · #177

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

This is an excellent question and something I don't think we talked much about previously. Since I'm not that familiar with other camera brand terms I will talk about this using Nikon terminology and leave it to you all to help fill in the terms other brands may use.

First off my camera allows me to choose how many focus points the camera will use; 51, 21 or 9. I always leave it set on 51. The D300 also gives me the choice of 51 points with what they call 3D Tracking which I do not use. The 3D mode works well for subjects that are very erratic in their movements but my action shooting is normally birds that move in mostly one direction, as in flight. 3D would work well in sports where the subject may make faster changes in direction of travel.

On fairly stationary subjects I normally set my camera to Single Servo AF and Single Point AF where I choose the focus point. I set it at the center focus when I go out and many times focus and then recompose the shot by holding the focus button halfway down. Using these settings also gives me the option to change points when needed.

But in this lesson we are talking action. When I know I will be out shooting moving subjects like flight shots I set my camera to Continuous Servo AF and Dynamic Area AF. In Continuous Servo mode the camera automatically activates Predictive Focus Tracking where the camera attempts to predict where the subject will be based on its movement. Setting the camera to Dynamic Area AF allows me to pick the focus point to use for the starting point. If the subject then moves away from that point the camera will use the surrounding points to predict focus. It works fairly well as long as light is decent and especially if you are using a lens as fast as or faster than F5.6. I normally pick a focus point that is slightly off center in the opposite direction of travel. That way it is easier to keep the subject in the frame and from flying out of it. One note - if the subject does leave the frame completely then you will have to let go of the shutter and reacquire focus.

The D300 does have an Auto Area AF mode but I do not use it. It is not always dependable in picking the subject and I'd rather pick the point to start out and focus on the subject myself then let the camera take over.

This may have been more than was asked for but feel free to let me know if it is not clear as mud.

04/07/2010 11:59:23 PM · #178

Originally posted by hihosilver:

[
JB...when is your book coming out...the latest lesson is a wonderful read...THANK YOU!!!

Thanks but I think it already has been written and it is not mine. Many of the things I have learned came from books by Arthur Morris and Art Wolfe and I have used them as a reference for these lessons. Hopefully I have not completely plagiarizing them and there is a bit of me in here.

04/08/2010 12:02:49 AM · #179

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

You're doing a GREAT job, JB :-)

R.

Thanks Robert, coming from you that is a high honor.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/09/2010 11:01:40 AM · #180

Make sure you all get out this weekend for some action shots and post them here!

McCarlie

04/09/2010 11:08:16 AM · #181

Sorry, this photo isn't even in the same universe as the photos in this thread. I rarely see anything besides a seagull or pigeon, so you can imagine my surprise when I found this in the backyard. I can't tell what kinds of bird it is, maybe a Hawk or Falcon?

McCarlie

04/09/2010 12:29:43 PM · #182

I guess I could have cropped in for more detail, my bad, blame it on the newbie numbness.

Artifacts

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

04/09/2010 12:30:05 PM · #183

Just my opinion but I think this is, by far, the best activity going on at DPC right now. Competitive photography is no substitute for fundamental basic education.

Though it is good that folks have independently chose to try to implement some sort of education it would be better if the site would institutionalize education into the site to the same degree as they do disqualifying pictures from challenges and chasing down "cheaters" via a faulty big brother is watching mentality.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/09/2010 12:43:02 PM · #184

JB... I find the autofocus frustrating for the 80-400 and really have become more attached to manual focus. I feel compelled to use the autofocus because isn't that supposed to make my life easier? Well, no...it doesn't. I guess I need to take a closer look at the manual for the camera...or perhaps I'm just "autofocus impaired." :-/

Artifacts

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

04/09/2010 12:48:44 PM · #185

Originally posted by hihosilver:

Or perhaps it is not you and your autofocus is just to slow.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/09/2010 12:53:43 PM · #186

Originally posted by Artifacts:

Originally posted by hihosilver:
JB... I find the autofocus frustrating for the 80-400 and really have become more attached to manual focus. I feel compelled to use the autofocus because isn't that supposed to make my life easier? Well, no...it doesn't. I guess I need to take a closer look at the manual for the camera...or perhaps I'm just "autofocus impaired." :-/

Or perhaps it is not you and your autofocus is just to slow.

Well, maybe my expectations are too high. I expect "autofocus" to have a psychic ability to focus in alignment with my mind's eye. But, "poof" my bird is gone...and my photo is blurry in all the wrong places. So, I do find manual focus easier as the 80-400 tends to "hunt"...I hate that! But, I haven't had this camera for very long...so maybe I just need to spend more time on it...thus reading this thread closely...;-)

Message edited by author 2010-04-09 13:02:01.

Artifacts

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

04/09/2010 01:50:02 PM · #187

Originally posted by hihosilver:

...But, I haven't had this camera for very long...

D200, huh? Wellll... perhaps some day you will move up from those puny little sensors to see the world as it really is. ;) ;)

scottieham

Canon EOS-50D

Canon EF 400mm f/5.6L USM

04/09/2010 01:50:17 PM · #188

Hey JB
This is a great thread and I will try to help contribute. I haven't been on DPC too much lately so I missed the start of the thread. I have to go through all the pages of the thread and see what I have missed out on, but for starters I can also recommend any of the books by Arthur Morris. They have been instrumental in improving my techniques. I would also suggest reading something by Bill Silliker, Jr. His focus is mostly on wildlife (his nickname is the Mooseman) but he is also known for his Eagle photos as well.

Here is my free study entry from last month. I like the negative space to the left. The sky is white because it was a very overcast day. I felt it was a bit more artsy than my usual photos.

Scott

Message edited by author 2010-04-09 13:50:44.

04/09/2010 01:58:24 PM · #189

Originally posted by Artifacts:

D200, huh? Wellll... perhaps some day you will move up from those puny little sensors to see the world as it really is. ;) ;)

I'm ignoring you now, Dear...;-P

04/09/2010 02:16:59 PM · #190

Originally posted by Artifacts:

Competitive photography is no substitute for fundamental basic education.

Perhaps, the two may complement each other? Education (along with homework) and a competition for presentation.

But, then again, maybe not all runners need a finish line...;-)

04/09/2010 05:55:40 PM · #191

Originally posted by McCarlie:

I guess I could have cropped in for more detail, my bad, blame it on the newbie numbness.

I'm not familiar with your side of the continent when it comes to hawks / falcons but this could be some type of falcon from the size of the bird it took. the only hawks that would take that size bird out here would maybe be a coppers hawks but they have bare legs.

04/09/2010 05:57:36 PM · #192

Originally posted by hihosilver:

Originally posted by Artifacts:
Competitive photography is no substitute for fundamental basic education.

Perhaps, the two may complement each other? Education (along with homework) and a competition for presentation.

But, then again, maybe not all runners need a finish line...;-)

I agree that this site works best with both. The friendly (?) competition helps many people try different things in order to enter the challenges. The education is what brings most here in the beginning I would think.

04/09/2010 06:03:14 PM · #193

Originally posted by hihosilver:

You are correct that the 80-400 is a difficult lens when it comes to AF. It has the old SLOW AF system and not the newer AF-S technology. That is why I've been waiting a few years now for Nikon to update it. It is rumored every year they are coming out with a 100-500 VR AF-S lens to replace it. We continue to hope!

With that said I'm not adverse to using manual focus when mine is hunting or just not locking on. But you should be able to get it to work if the light is good and bright. Mine does seem to work better on my D300 versus my old D200 and that is likely due to the better 51 point system in the D300.

04/09/2010 06:06:20 PM · #194

Originally posted by scottieham:

I welcome the help Scott, thanks. Love your Downy shot.

04/09/2010 07:09:50 PM · #195

Originally posted by jbsmithana:

Oh JB!! Exactly my point! But, by now...Steve should always know I'm right...;-P

Also, I've noticed in the longer zoom lens that the bird must go in sort of the sweet spot of the lens when in motion...which is the other reason that the auto focus frustrates me.

04/09/2010 10:17:15 PM · #196

Originally posted by hihosilver:

[quote=jbsmithana] Also, I've noticed in the longer zoom lens that the bird must go in sort of the sweet spot of the lens when in motion...which is the other reason that the auto focus frustrates me.

Yes. I use a spot just off center to the side opposite of the movement. BTW - I should have mentioned that you should use the focus limit switch on the 80-400 whenever you can as it does help the lens be a bit faster. Just focus once on the the distance you are shooting and the switch the switch to Limit. It will then only hunt for either the short end or the long end.

MelonMusketeer

Nikon D7000

Nikon MF 50mm f/1.4

04/10/2010 01:55:36 AM · #197

AF seems just too slow for birds in motion with all the AF lenses that I use except maybe the 180 f 2.8 . When I use it for birds, I use AP and -1 ev for light birds. The 70-300 f4.5 5.6 is just way too slow for motion shooting. I like my old manual lenses best because they were made for manual focus, with large focus collars that turn very easily.

Duck shot was done with the get down low and go slow technique that was discussed earlier.
It's very easy to overexpose white birds like the Egret. I usually set preview for the "blinkies" which blinks blown out highlights when the image comes up on the LCD, and adjust exposure down until I get a shot with no "blinking". For me, it works better than any other way that I have tried to shoot white birds. The BG looks very dark in the LCD for most shots like this.
I agree that this thread has so far been one of the best and most informative that I have seen here at DPC over the last couple of years. Everyone seems to be staying on topic and sharing ideas and experience. ( with the possible exception of a couple of my posts)
There are a lot of us out here like me, that don't have the extra cash to buy high end lenses. I have been adding what I have learned about using the older and less glamorous glass for birding to the thread.

Message edited by author 2010-04-10 02:00:25.

04/10/2010 01:16:31 PM · #198

Thanks for the participation

MelonMusketeer!

I had a couple of hummingbirds fighting over my feeder outside my ofice yesterday and had a heck of a time keeping focus on my 80-400 (oh how I missed my 70-200 2.8). Takes a bit of luck for me to get a good sharp shoot with those fast moving guys so I used high spped flash on full manual at 1/800 shutter just to get a couple of NOT totally sharp shots. I hate to post OOF shots but thought I would post them to show how hard it is.

And one of a male sitting only becasue I loved the heart shape light in the BG.

Two days ago while driving through the fields on my way home I spotted this Northern Harrier hunting, thought it made a good territorial shot showing both habit and hunting style of the Harrier.