Help me analyze a textbook photo!

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

03/26/2010 02:58:39 PM · #26

I appreciate all the good discussion on this. Thank you everyone.

About a miscaption - I would say that would be a good possibility. I don't think I can agree on the earthquake part - the rest of the ground looks so settled. What do you think about the wiggling tracks in the background on the right?

I guess I will try and contact the author - to see if I can get a good answer :)

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

03/26/2010 03:07:24 PM · #27

Assuming the photo is real, earthquake damage is almost certainly not the cause. There is no correlation of the damage between the left and right sets of tracks, something that I would definitely expect to see if the damage were due to earthquake

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Pentax DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] WR DC

03/26/2010 03:15:29 PM · #28

Why does the picture have to be taken in July? I assume that a buckled track doesn't just go back straight if this much damage is done. So the track buckled in July and then the photo was taken in October.

tnun

Ricoh GR III

03/26/2010 03:48:38 PM · #29

Yes, I wondered that myself. But I also wonder if they would have left the tracks unfixed for so long a period. And now I wonder what happens after a heat buckle when/if the weather quickly cools.

SteveJ

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

03/26/2010 04:11:22 PM · #30

I don't know how genuine this photo is, but it looks more like late autumn or early spring as both people are dressed for cold weather, thus nullifying the extreme heat in July theory as suggested by the caption. However, since modern tracks are now welded as a single track without expansion gaps, this would explain the buckling which probably was caused by heat at sometime in the past.

How many people have noticed that the traditional clickety, clack sound of trains is a thing of the past. In UK most lines when they are renewed are of this continous weld method, hence quieter running trains.

Message edited by author 2010-03-26 16:11:54.

Pug-H

Pentax K10D

Sigma 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical HF for Pentax

03/26/2010 04:54:14 PM · #31

My immediate reaction was that this photo was taken in Japan, or perhaps China. The clothing of the worker looks the kind that Japanese railway workers wear (he's certainly Asian). The bicycle is also the common type in Japan - basket and no horizontal bar.
I would say earthquake damage. ;-Ã�

Adding: well, here you go - the text book photo may even be from the Great Hanshin earthquake of 1995.

A different track.

Message edited by author 2010-03-26 16:58:42.

JokersSoul

Canon EOS-50D

Tamron AF 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical for Canon

03/26/2010 05:03:45 PM · #32

Found this article HERE on warped tracks. Hopefully this will just reiterate what happened.

kleski

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

03/26/2010 05:05:44 PM · #33

Earthquake...

looks similar

Googled Japan, earthquake, railroad

Message edited by author 2010-03-26 17:06:31.

03/26/2010 05:18:41 PM · #34

You guys are awesome - I knew I could find help here. I was leaning towards Japan as well. I like the direction this is taking :)

see

Canon PowerShot S95

03/26/2010 05:33:08 PM · #35

I am currently working on a bridge just short of 120', expected expansion on a average day is 3-4".

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

03/26/2010 05:40:52 PM · #36

Originally posted by colorcarnival:

You guys are awesome - I knew I could find help here. I was leaning towards Japan as well. I like the direction this is taking :)

It's not Japan because the backpack isn't Hello Kitty.

It's not the US because the kid is on a bike to start with.

Do note in JokersSoul's image that the warped tracks still have a nice smooth bed without spikes being ripped up, etc. Looks a lot like these and I'm guessing the picture is quite real. I don't think textbook people have a lot of incentive to photoshop a picture to make their textbook rock that much more (especially when other examples can be found quite easily).

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

03/26/2010 05:44:08 PM · #37

As you have pointed out, I also suspect this is at least the wrong caption...

Both people are wearing winter coats.. I do not think this would be a photo taken when it is extremely hot..

The symmetry is easily explained as they are nailed to the railroad ties... Forcing symmetry..

All of that aside, I'm pretty good with PS, and I can't think of a way to get this result without obvious artifacts.. Must be a real photo on that basis alone..

Now, here's my $0.02 on this: Earthquake, why? Notice both a lateral displacement (the bending that is obvious) but also a small horizontal warping as well.. This is pretty consistent with earthquake ground movement..

Oh, and an earthquake would absolutely smooth the stones out just like the photograph..

Message edited by author 2010-03-26 17:54:08.

03/26/2010 05:47:51 PM · #38

I'm wondering whether they have the wrong picture. I did some more searching on asbury park, and came across a powerpoint for the physics book. It has this picture:

with this caption:
Thermal expansion: The extreme temperature of a July day in Asbury
Park, NJ, caused these railroad tracks to buckle and derail the
train in the distance. (AP/Wide World Photos)

SaraR

Sony Alpha a7R III

Sony FE 24-70mm f/2.8 GM

03/26/2010 05:53:04 PM · #39

Hey Wendy - you ever thought of teaming up with Juliet? You'd make an awesome pair of PIs!

03/26/2010 05:54:44 PM · #40

Originally posted by SaraR:

Hey Wendy - you ever thought of teaming up with Juliet? You'd make an awesome pair of PIs!

haha, it's only because I'm going to be running this by my physicist husband tonight. So I wanted to get as much info as I could before hand!

Sigma 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical HF for Pentax

03/26/2010 05:55:27 PM · #41

Originally posted by vawendy:

I'm wondering whether they have the wrong picture. I did some more searching on asbury park, and came across a powerpoint for the physics book. It has this picture:

with this caption:
Thermal expansion: The extreme temperature of a July day in Asbury
Park, NJ, caused these railroad tracks to buckle and derail the
train in the distance. (AP/Wide World Photos)

That is the exact quote - good job! Can you PM me a link to the powerpoint?

Pug-H

Pentax K10D

03/26/2010 06:07:50 PM · #42

Just to add to my theory that it's from the Great Hanshin, or Kobe, earthquake - it occurred in January 1995, winter, and most of the railways were damaged. I imagine this photos was taken a few weeks later, still in winter but things had returned to normal somewhat (hence the bicycle).

03/26/2010 07:18:41 PM · #43

Originally posted by colorcarnival:

Originally posted by vawendy:
I'm wondering whether they have the wrong picture. I did some more searching on asbury park, and came across a powerpoint for the physics book. It has this picture:

with this caption:
Thermal expansion: The extreme temperature of a July day in Asbury
Park, NJ, caused these railroad tracks to buckle and derail the
train in the distance. (AP/Wide World Photos)

That is the exact quote - good job! Can you PM me a link to the powerpoint?

It's a powerpoint document entitled geometrical optics. Here's the link:

geometrical optics

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

03/27/2010 08:55:47 AM · #44

Ok, my husband said that it's certainly possible that the original is thermal expansion. Obviously it can be earthquake, as well. But it certainly can be thermal expansion.

He thinks it's strange that there's no ties for the rails.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

03/27/2010 10:42:18 AM · #45

Originally posted by vawendy:

There ARE ties; look under the worker's boots, and to the upper right of the bicycle's rear wheel. They are radically compressed in this extreme telephoto image.

R.

03/27/2010 01:34:02 PM · #46

I got an answer from the author but he really did not answer my question - about whether the caption was wrong. He did comment tho that a telephoto was responsible for creating that compressed look. He said he wanted it because it's commonly used in a lot of other physics books. I guess I am still not convinced this is in NJ.

You all have done an awesome job of dissecting it and doing research. Thanks!

Sheryll

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

03/27/2010 03:20:02 PM · #47

I'm no expert but just read this whole thread with all the arguments presented and I'm convinced that wherever the photo was taken it was due to earthquake. Two people posted the photo of the tracks in Kobe Japan and if you look at the ties in that photo, they seem to be sort of buried under the rocks. This also seems to be the case in the original photo. Also the black tubing stuff whatever that is is buckled up between the tracks in both of those photos. The Kobe Japan photo is more obviously quake because of the foreground portion showing the rocks more pushed to the side.

Just my uneducated opinion of course.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

03/27/2010 03:42:42 PM · #48

If one wants to get all tricky with it, figure out the average distance between two wheels on a bicycle and compare that to the gauge of the rails. The US uses 4'6" gauge, while most of Japan uses 3'6"...

BAM!

Message edited by author 2010-03-27 15:43:43.