This guy could use some tips from Skip!

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

03/16/2010 08:32:03 AM · #1

On how to behave around people with a camera in public that is.

A Photographer Is "Banned" for Taking Pictures on Church Street

rooum

03/16/2010 08:51:56 AM · #2

Originally posted by glad2badad:

On how to behave around people with a camera in public that is.

A Photographer Is "Banned" for Taking Pictures on Church Street

Lots of food for thought there. There is such a rising paranoia within the general public when it come to photography that street photography is becoming very difficult and unnerving i feel. I guess this is caused by a number of reasons, the rise of the internet and phone cameras and sites such as youtube etc, fear of, and scaremongering about, terrorism and peodophilia. As the article points out, the irony is that this coincides with the huge amount of CCTV surveillance in operation. The UK, for example, has more cctv cameras per population than anywhere in the world. It is a shame. I would love to do more street photography but i feel quite odd doing it.

Yo_Spiff

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

03/16/2010 09:04:31 AM · #3

I read about that yesterday on Consumerist. The article I read was written with a non-photographers viewpoint, saying he was "creeping people out". Most of the comments were supportive of the photographer, and in line with what we already know about where there is and is not a "reasonable expectation of privacy".

It is certainly possible that his behavior was unsettling to people. We weren't there and we don't really know how this all transpired. It's a matter of perception. As a salesman once told me: "perception is reality".

Message edited by author 2010-03-16 09:07:12.

03/16/2010 09:10:06 AM · #4

Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:

... The UK, for example, has more cctv cameras per population than anywhere in the world. It is a shame. I would love to do more street photography but i feel quite odd doing it.

I'm active on another photography site (Minolta/Sony site - Dyxum.com) and it's interesting to read opinions on this subject from people around the world rather than just a primarily US POV (and or UK - although the UK is in the forefront on this subject of photography restrictions IMO).

03/16/2010 09:16:09 AM · #5

What I think is weird...He doesn't even go into any of the shops. What's the ban going to do? Nothing. *shrug*

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

03/16/2010 09:21:20 AM · #6

Originally posted by NathanWert:

What I think is weird...He doesn't even go into any of the shops. What's the ban going to do? Nothing. *shrug*

Exactly.

ETA - except make it difficult to shop on his lunch break I suppose. :-)

Message edited by author 2010-03-16 09:21:49.

Yo_Spiff

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

03/16/2010 09:24:01 AM · #7

Here is his Flickr page for those interested.

rooum

03/16/2010 09:38:53 AM · #8

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Here is his Flickr page for those interested.

Some very good street photography there IMO.

yakatme

Lytro Illum Light Field Digital

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

03/16/2010 10:11:24 AM · #9

This guy could use some tips from Skip!

Originally posted by glad2badad:

On how to behave around people with a camera in public that is.

You've got to be kidding about

Skip giving tips. Have you ever shot with him on the street?

He doesn't always use a telephoto lens for his "candid shots taken from a distance with a telephoto lens so his subjects arenâ��t aware theyâ��re being photographed" like this guy does. He gets right in their face with a fisheye! It's hilarious.

Seriously though, you are right. What Skip doesn't do is piss people off in doing so. It probably has something to do with the fact that he doesn't seem to be doing it on the sly and instead is right "up front" about it. Actually, he does shoot pretty well from the hip when he doesn't want anyone to know and I never saw him get caught doing that.

03/16/2010 10:14:28 AM · #10

Originally posted by yakatme:

... What Skip doesn't do is piss people off in doing so. It probably has something to do with the fact that he doesn't seem to be doing it on the sly and instead is right "up front" about it. ...

Yep. I've seen Skip at work. :-) Super people friendly kind of guy and he works that. Not everyone has that ~~skill~~ gift.

edit - for better word.

Message edited by author 2010-03-16 10:15:06.

pawdrix

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

03/16/2010 10:50:05 AM · #11

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Here is his Flickr page for those interested.

Looks like pretty standard stuff. Nothing egregious and a good deal of men in the images so, it doesn't appear like he's creepily stalking woman or anything crazy.

Looks like a bit of overeaction...but who knows?

eta: I've shot with Skip twice and I'm 100% sure he's probably pissed off quite a few people in his day. Not that he's obnoxious but it's inevitable that there will always be people in frame that don't wish to be captured when shooting in the street. The odds are highly, highly in favor that some people will be bothered.

I might add this...If you are going to piss people off it might be good to make sure that the image you are capturing is actually one worth taking. At least you'll cut down on the pestering and the results may even be worth viewing...?

Message edited by author 2010-03-16 10:57:42.

ragamuffingirl

Sony Alpha NEX-5N

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

03/16/2010 11:04:57 AM · #12

Scott claims he was about 50 feet away when the woman, an employee of the coffeehouse, noticed his camera and asked him not to take her picture. Scott claims he backed off. But the woman also asked Scott to delete the pictures heâ��d already taken of her. He refused.

IMHO - THAT is what he did wrong. As someone who REALLY doesn't like having their picture taken, I think it's just curteosy. If I know someone is trying to shoot my picture, I'll usually either turn my back to them or put my hand up in front of my face. He might have also tried explaining to the woman what he was doing, why he wanted to take her picture, and what he was using it for - maybe even given her a link to his website. I've found that calms an incredible amount of people right down and assures them that you're not a psycho killer, baby raper, kidnapper seeking his next victim. I used to often shoot the local Old Order Mennonite population, and I used to assure them that I would never deliberately get a picture of their faces - since they object to that. Of course there's that one picture where the kid turned around and waved at me, but still....

Wasn't it Skip who told me the reason I didn't like pictures of myself was because HE had never taken my picture? So, I let him take my picture, but he got right in my face with the lens, and I still hated it?

Message edited by author 2010-03-16 11:05:56.

pawdrix

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

03/16/2010 11:12:45 AM · #13

Originally posted by ragamuffingirl:

I think it's just curteosy.

I think if Photographers worried about courtesy millions of amazing images would never have been taken. I just shoot, I don't know if it's right or wrong but I'm sure if I exercised polite thought when shooting you could probably knock 2/3rds the images right out of my portfolio. I do respect people when they wave me away and occasionally I ask people if they wish to have their picture taken.

Message edited by author 2010-03-16 11:16:14.

Louis

Nikon D800

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

03/16/2010 11:23:30 AM · #14

This appears to be the offending picture that started his troubles. What a beautiful image. Thank goodness he captured it.

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

03/16/2010 11:25:32 AM · #15

yo, barry, thanks! and, yeah, yak, i've still got that shot of you somewhere ;-)

that's a really wild read, and it really highlights the differences between years gone by and today. it's insane what digital imagery, the internet, and instant delivery devices have done to our social mores. on one hand, we all want to be able to do it, but on the other, we scream like hell when it's done to us.

like it or not, if you are going to photograph stuff in public, you have got to learn the art of diplomacy, and you've got to learn to share. i've been caught up in plenty of unpleasant situations over the years and have been able to work my way through them without too much hassle. there was one incident involving some cheerleaders that wound up with me surrounded by four deputies, but i'll NEVER go back to that backwater redneck high school again ;-) (i guess it was just an inherent distrust of outsiders and i didn't speak their dialect...)

first, learn to pick your battles. just ask yourself if the particular situation you're in is worth fighting over. if it is, you've got to accept that the person you're dealing with probably under-trained and stressed out. be polite. if you can't gently reason with them, simply ask to get their supervisor involved to help clarify things. it's really a matter of whether or not you have the time and inclination to keep bumping it up until you can talk to someone who can see your side. just remember: if you want to argue, you're not going to make any friends. who cares if you're right if you're giving someone an axe to grind?

next, don't creep people out. think about the things people could do to you that would bother you...like surreptitiously photographing your children. don't do those things! if that guy had spent time getting to know the business owners, sharing his work with them, they would have been able to assure their clientele that the dude was no one to worry about. i think this guy blew an absolutely incredible opportunity to establish himself as a community photographer, being welcome, known, and appreciated all along church street. instead, he's put himself on the outs with the businesses, the public, and the police. sure, he might be able to win from a legal standpoint, but it doesn't matter...he's already lost the war.

Originally posted by rmg:

Wasn't it Skip who told me the reason I didn't like pictures of myself was because HE had never taken my picture? So, I let him take my picture, but he got right in my face with the lens, and I still hated it?

can't please everyone, no matter how we try...

Originally posted by paw:

skip has pissed off some people

oh, undoubtedly, and *sometimes* on purpose, but not as a matter of habit. all the same, if i know i'm not welcome, i don't bother. and if someone really has a problem with their photo being taken, i don't take it. and, if it doesn't turn out, i don't show it. in fact, i just had a request from an ump to remove a shot of him because he found it unflattering; i agreed and complied (it was just a candid of him on the field; if it had been an action shot of a decisive moment, i'd chastise him for trying to censor me).

Message edited by author 2010-03-16 11:33:23.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

03/16/2010 11:34:20 AM · #16

I'm thinking we should to a GTG there this spring. LOL. I actually live somewhat close enough I could go too. *grin*

ragamuffingirl

Sony Alpha NEX-5N

03/16/2010 11:49:43 AM · #17

Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by ragamuffingirl:
I think it's just curteosy.

I think if Photographers worried about courtesy millions of amazing images would never have been taken. I just shoot, I don't know if it's right or wrong but I'm sure if I exercised polite thought when shooting you could probably knock 2/3rds the images right out of my portfolio. I do respect people when they wave me away and occasionally I ask people if they wish to have their picture taken.

But did the person in that image specifically ask you to delete the image after you took it? THAT is what I'm saying would have been courtesy. And Skip is right - he could have been doing things to build relationships with the local buisnesses like sharing his work, giving them prints (local buisnesses love stuff like that), and just letting them SEE that he's not some kind of a pervert. Then, when people came in going, "There's some guy out there with a camera!" They could be like, "Oh he's nothing to worry about. He took those pictures over there."

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

03/16/2010 12:05:15 PM · #18

Originally posted by NathanWert:

I'm thinking we should to a GTG there this spring. LOL. I actually live somewhat close enough I could go too. *grin*

You just like hot water, don't you. :-D

ragamuffingirl

Sony Alpha NEX-5N

03/16/2010 12:09:00 PM · #19

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by NathanWert:
I'm thinking we should to a GTG there this spring. LOL. I actually live somewhat close enough I could go too. *grin*

You just like hot water, don't you. :-D

I think it'd be hillarious!

03/16/2010 01:05:45 PM · #20

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by NathanWert:
I'm thinking we should to a GTG there this spring. LOL. I actually live somewhat close enough I could go too. *grin*

You just like hot water, don't you. :-D

Actually...yes I do. Hot water is great!!! Especially in the shower, but I don't think we'll be doing that kind of photo shoot in public.

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

03/16/2010 02:15:53 PM · #21

Originally posted by NathanWert:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by NathanWert:
I'm thinking we should to a GTG there this spring. LOL. I actually live somewhat close enough I could go too. *grin*

You just like hot water, don't you. :-D

Actually...yes I do. Hot water is great!!! Especially in the shower, but I don't think we'll be doing that kind of photo shoot in public.

He-he. :-) Actually, I was thinking about your thread recently that was a similar situation...parents asking you to not post/display photos with their kids in them. Looked, but couldn't find that thread.

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

03/16/2010 02:38:46 PM · #22

Originally posted by pawdrix:

I just shoot, I don't know if it's right or wrong

i think it comes down to intent. why are you shooting and what are you going to do with the images? if it's truly 'personal use', going as far as to mean you won't be sharing them with anyone, that's one thing. otherwise, you leave yourself open, rightfully or wrongfully, for judgment.

i shoot a lot like steve, mainly to document the world i live in. i'm not out to embarrass anyone or to exploit anyone. sometimes people don't like the images i capture; depending on the situation, i might agree with them. some people i photograph don't like the images i capture; again, depending on the situation, i might agree with them. as i rule, i typically don't delete anything until i've had a good chance to look at, and then it's more a matter of whether or not i think an image has anything to contribute to my story.

cryan

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX DG Macro for Nikon

03/16/2010 02:49:20 PM · #23

Please don't get me started on this topic. I work on CHurch st. and have taken many photos there without any problem. Now myself and others are almost afraid to go out onto a public marketplace with our cameras. Unfortunately with the politics the way they are here in Vermont, I have a horrible feeling that we are on our way to haveing cameras banned from the downtown area. All because this ass doesn't know how to behave. Now ask me how I really feel.

Message edited by author 2010-03-16 14:52:25.

cryan

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX DG Macro for Nikon

03/16/2010 02:51:33 PM · #24

Originally posted by NathanWert:

I'm thinking we should to a GTG there this spring. LOL. I actually live somewhat close enough I could go too. *grin*

Let me kow, I'm up for one.