PayPal dispute, I'm freaking out

12/26/2009 03:40:12 AM · #1

I have just received an email from PayPal advising that the person that purchased a like new Ed Hardy Leather Jacket (my sons - used only a hand full of times - genuine article with all receipts)is trying to reverse the payment.

The person came and picked the item up and was very happy with it.
First time ebay buyer.
I waited until PayPal said payment was clear and eligible for Seller cover.

I am lucky enough to have saved all emails, sms messages, etc from the sale (don't know what I would have done had I deleted them all as I would have absolutley no evidence for PayPal.

Even with everything I have sent I don't know what will happen.

Has anyone had this happen to them.

I'm jusk freaking out about this.

So much for my relaxing xmas break, I'm just losing it big time!!!!

Message edited by author 2009-12-26 05:46:09.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

12/26/2009 06:55:16 AM · #2

Just wondering why this new topic is not showing on the home page. Odd.

Simms

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

12/26/2009 06:55:36 AM · #3

Maybe you dont have RANT forum selected to show on the homepage? Its actually on there twice now..

Anyway, sounds like someone purchased this as a present and its unwanted - hence the reason the payment has tried to be reversed. Fortunately for you you are not a store and do not have to accept unwanted gifts.. The problem you may have is they may damage it and say that upon checking they found the damage - forcing you to accept the item back and refund.. keep us updated!

Message edited by author 2009-12-26 06:56:56.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

12/26/2009 04:34:56 PM · #4

Paypal is advising this it is an 'Unauthorised use of Credit/Debit card'

I don't believe how he makes payment to PayPal is my concern, I have not control over it.
Isn't that between him and PayPal
They are the ones that accepted the payment and advised that it was clear.

I've been looking up with google and whilst I haven't been able to find much information, it seems that if they pay via paypal then you are meant to post the item. I wanted to cancel the paypal payment when it first arrived as he had already advised he was going to pick it up but I do not have an option to reject the payment. I had actually called them about trying to cancel the payment and have the person person pay cash on pickup. Would they have logged something about this conversation with me?

To make matters worse I went to the PayPal advised postal address (yes it only 20 minutes away, just up the road from where I work). He has advised that his address is 16 XXXXX street. There is no 16. The house on one corner is number 14-16 because there has been an error in street numbers for some reason, other corner the number is 18. So, I knocked on the door of 14-16 and asked a few questions. An elderly lady came to the door first and then a younger man that I could see in the room also came to the door. I'm thinking it is her son, maybe visiting for Xmas (just guessing). He is a policeman and advised about the odd numbering. I have decided to go back up today and see if he will help with a document advising of the false address given on PayPal. I'm hoping this information will also go in my favour.

This person is trying to steal from me. He has taken with him an absolutely perfect, as new condition leather jacket which cost my son over $1,100. This person has purchased it for $550 on ebay and now he's trying to get the money back. This person is brand new to ebay (first purchase and I'm the bunny) so I gather he's also new to PayPal. I'm hoping that this goes in my favour as I have used PayPal and ebay for some years and have 100% feedback. Surely that will account for something.

Simms

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

12/26/2009 04:59:56 PM · #5

Originally posted by RamblinR:

I agree, I cant see how you are supposed to check to see if his credit/debit card is valid - surely the onus lies with paypal here as they are the ones who accepted the debit/credit card. I know it doesnt give new ebayers much of a chance, but thats why I only accept bids from ebayers who have a decent rating. I really hope this works out for you, some people can be so damn nasty sometimes.

fingers crossed!!

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

12/26/2009 05:01:14 PM · #6

You're in another country, so I'm not sure about your laws. But, if the person stole the credit card that was used, the victim of the theft can't be held accountable. Therefore paypal will take the money back from you to give back to the owner of the card. I'd personally list file a theft by deception charge with your local police. If the person picked up from you, chances are he's local.

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

12/26/2009 06:26:46 PM · #7

You may wish to read about PayPal Seller Protection. PayPal probably has to investigate to confirm that you were not a party to the theft of the card (i.e., that you were a victim and not the perpetrator of the fraud) but so long as that checks out you should be fine.

~Terry

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

12/26/2009 06:29:22 PM · #8

See also [url=om/au/cgi-bin/?&cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=en_AU]section 4.2 here[/url].

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

12/27/2009 06:54:54 PM · #9

OK, I have forwarded off to PayPal around 10 pages of information trying to ensure they return my funds. I have copied every email every sms absolutey everything I could get my hands on to make them return my funds. I have even sent a google map that shows that the address used by the person does not exist. They have been very clever. Have used a street address of 16 xxxx street and there is only a 14 and 18. Have also added a copy of a statement from an occupant of 14 xxxx street who is a policeman to verify false address.

I have also bundled up all this information and put in a report with the Banking and Financial Ombudsman. I will not go down without a fight.

I don't think there is anything more I can do. If PayPal does not return my funds this person will have succeeded in scamming me and I will be $550 the poorer. Sometimes life really sucks.

Simms

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

12/27/2009 07:24:27 PM · #10

For sale - leather jacket - $400 - usually retails at around $1100 - must sell ASAP.

12/27/2009 07:26:29 PM · #11

Thanks for the laugh Mark :)

I will let everyone know the outcome down the track - could take up to a month or more.

Message edited by author 2009-12-27 19:32:47.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

02/27/2010 05:55:22 AM · #12

OK, no support from PayPal, they have returned my funds to the Bank. Now all I can do is hope that the Financial Ombudsman takes my side with all the information I forwarded to them.

I cannot understand how, in the present day, (I work for a stockbroking firm and financial planners) anybody can open an account with PayPal without some sort of identification to verify they own the credit card offered to them. This is just beyond me.

I am beside myself to think that this person, who obviously already had this planned, was bold enough to come to my house and pick up the goods. Only wish I had gone outside and looked at his number plate on his car and I would have something to get him by.

Please, others using PayPal be aware that you must post your goods. $550 is a very expensive learning curve.

MikeO

Fujifilm x100

02/27/2010 06:43:33 AM · #13

There are some evil people out there, I dont know how they live with themselves.
I hope it all works out for you and you get your money back soon.

Mick

Canon EOS-5D

02/27/2010 03:29:05 PM · #14

Originally posted by RamblinR:

OK, no support from PayPal, they have returned my funds to the Bank. Now all I can do is hope that the Financial Ombudsman takes my side with all the information I forwarded to them.

Do you mean that PayPal is returning the funds to the buyer's credit card without requiring the buyer to return the item? If so, then PayPal is assisting the buyer to defraud you. There's no way I'd let that stand.

Did they say why they were not giving you the money? If PayPal told you that the buyer transferred the correct amount from his credit card into PayPal for the purchase of your item, then PayPal owes you that money.

You should go through PayPal's depute resolution process. Then, if you don't get your money or the item back, take PayPal to court. Then go to the news media and tell them your story.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

02/27/2010 05:20:17 PM · #15

Hi Mick,

Because I did not POST the goods I have no cover with PayPal. This is something I was not aware of until now.

When you put an item on ebay you have no choice to but to accept PayPal as a payment method, even if you tick that the item is to be picked up you cannot remove the PayPal feature for payment.

I had actually phoned PayPal as I wanted to reject the funds as they were picking the item up. The girl was completely unhelpful. I had advised her that the person was picking up the item and at NO TIME did you she advise me that I would not be covered.

I've done $550. I just want others to not fall into the same trap. Everyone thinks they will be scammed as a buyer but you can also be scammed as a Seller so BE AWARE. If someone pays with PayPal you MUST POST the goods. If they want to pick the item up then return their funds via PayPal and make them bring cash. The buyer having good feedback is of no use to you if they do a chargeback on their credit card, they win as you didn't post the goods.

After much reading on the net I would suggest the following for anybody selling things of great value (yes, I am paranoid but have a good reason to be):

* photograph the item before sending (reason: people receive the item and for whatever reason they decide they don't want it and they damage the item and then send pics to PayPal showing that the item was not as described. If you have pics (including the serial no/model no) you have evidence in your favour.

* have someone who can verify that they saw you package the actual goods for sale (reason: the buyer can claim that they received an empty box)

* in Australia, post the goods by Registered Mail (as someone at the address must sign for it) and also pay an extra $1.50 to have a card that is signed by the recipient mailed back to you. This is your evidence that the item was received.

* Make sure you hold onto all receipts, emails and sms messages for a minimum of six months.

* I now check that the name and address that I have to send it to are in the actual phone book with a landline and I phone it to ensure I get the same person. If I get a buyer paying via PayPal that isn't in the phone book they will be required to forward me a copy of their Drivers Licence and a utility bill showing their name and address. We don't have verified addresses in Australia so I will be verifying it myself before I send the goods.

I hope the above may help others not get scammed as a Seller.

MelonMusketeer

Nikon D7000

Nikon MF 50mm f/1.4

02/27/2010 07:16:53 PM · #16

This certainly is a story with an unhappy ending for you. Thanks for the good warning and information about how this scam works.

Mick

Canon EOS-5D

02/27/2010 10:02:12 PM · #17

I'm sorry this turned out so bad for you, Maria.

It sounds to me like the only mistake you made was trusting PayPal to give you the money that the buyer gave them for the item. Even though PayPal told you that the buyer had paid for the item, until the money is actually in your hand or your account (your bank account, not your PayPal account), then you haven't been paid yet. I never keep any money in my PayPal account. I only use PayPal as a conduit to transfer money to/from my bank or credit card. If I receive money from anyone, I immediately transfer it into my bank account.

Better luck next time kiddo!

I still think you should sue PayPal. :)

MAK

Leica M Monochrom

Leica 18-56mm f/3.5-5.6 Vario Elmar-T ASPH

02/28/2010 07:29:30 AM · #18

I have never wanted a paypal account and this has just set it in concrete.. Sorry for your being scammed by someone who obviously knows the score and must do this on a regular basis.

If someone wants to buy anything from me I ask for cash on collection or bank transfer then I post.

02/28/2010 04:20:58 PM · #19

I'm with you MAK but with ebay you must accept PayPal as a payment method (ebay own PayPal - surprise surprise!!)

I actually don't have a problem with PayPal generally. Use it myself to buy stuff - to pay for membership to this site and much more.

My problem is with the fact that they, as a business, make money by transferring funds for people. If this is their business I then consider they are liable for fraudulent accounts. They must ensure that a new PayPal account is legitimate and not somebody using someone elses card and a fake address. Accounts and addresses need to be verified before any transactions can take place

This was a brand new PayPal account that was set up with someone elses card (obviously). I have no control over this so I don't see that I should be the one to lose funds. It is up to them to ensure the credibility of the new account.