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02/08/2010 04:38:27 PM · #1 |
Argh... this little side job keeps snowballing. They keep asking for more and more and more. :)
Anyway here's the deal.
A local company wanted someone to take couples portraits at their Christmas party. They only wanted to spend $250 and so I worked it out with them for up to 50 5x7 prints, 1 8x10 group shot, and two hours of shooting. No party photos (candids), etc.
Did the shoot... and it turned out they wanted family shots too. So my backdrop was not big enough, but I was able to position and do PS work to make those look good. The group shot was agreed no background (they had a party banner).
Then the boss comes up as I'm getting ready to leave and asks me to take some party shots. Which I went ahead and did, thinking I could sell them extras later. The group shot went well but they wanted one shot with just employees and one with spouses/family (big group). Again, took the shot, figuring to sell up later.
Then I made proofs and emailed link so they could pick the 50 5x7s and 1 8x10. I listed prices for the 4x6 sized party shots as well as additional prints if the couples wished to buy more. It took them forever to pick the 50 and then ended up picking 43 + 5 of the party shots + they wanted the 8x10s as 5x7. They also wanted both group shots as 8x10, so asked if they wanted to mail the check for that, to which they balked, thinking they were getting both 8x10. I showed them the agreement and so they just passed on the second one.
Being kind, I went ahead and ordered it anyway and just gave it to them as a customer service thing.
No employees have contacted me wanting any of the photos. But this is a construction firm and I'm not really sure anyone but the lady who hired me ended up looking at them. They were gifting one 5x7 to each employee.
That said, today the president of the company has now asked me how much for the electronic copies. Like I said, to date, no one has ordered any, but at the the same time, this may be his way of getting the disc and then just printing his own for anyone who wants them, cutting me out of the loop. But on the other hand, I don't stand to really make anything more either.
Any thoughts on how much I should as for? It's just a party, they aren't that great for my portfolio (some are). Pretty canned shots really. I did spend a lot of time in PS cleaning them because I wanted to do my best. |
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02/08/2010 04:45:01 PM · #2 |
| Why not send them an email inquiring about the intended use, since, as they should know (even if they don't) that licensing fees depend upon intended usage. |
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02/08/2010 04:50:18 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Why not send them an email inquiring about the intended use, since, as they should know (even if they don't) that licensing fees depend upon intended usage. |
I think that's normally a good step, but these are clearly not good for anything but printing for families. They MIGHT use them for online bios, but their website isn't all that great so I doubt it and besides they aren't alone in the shots.
This is more like a wedding, except I've got one "client" representing about 40 different families (potential sales). |
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02/08/2010 04:53:12 PM · #4 |
| Maybe you could charge them whatever you'd charge for an additional (5x7 or 8x10) print for each image included, since that's probably what you're sacrificing in additional revenue. Or else quote them $10,000 and get them out of your hair ... ;-) |
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02/08/2010 06:59:53 PM · #5 |
Personally, I'd ask them what they feel they should pay you and tell them that they effectively tripled your job and haven't mentioned a penny more.
If they can't make an equitable offer, just tell 'em no.
Prolly the time to negotiate would have been when they doubled the job by asking for the family shots on the spot.
You have to decide what you feel the files are worth.
Watermark 'em all......tastefully, but do 'em all.
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02/08/2010 08:11:28 PM · #6 |
| Go with Paul's advice. If you are wondering about a price, always try to get the client to make a first offer. If things go as they have, he will offer something quite low. At that point you can "educate" him about the value of digital files and then up his offer to a number you think is better but won't scare him away. If he goes for it you will have obtained the maxiumum amount of money the job could have given you. Every client has a different price and there is no use trying to go after money that just isn't there. |
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02/08/2010 08:56:01 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Go with Paul's advice. If you are wondering about a price, always try to get the client to make a first offer. If things go as they have, he will offer something quite low. At that point you can "educate" him about the value of digital files and then up his offer to a number you think is better but won't scare him away. If he goes for it you will have obtained the maxiumum amount of money the job could have given you. Every client has a different price and there is no use trying to go after money that just isn't there. |
Problem is when the client thinks that there is no more money to give, and hey......it's not like he has to do any more work, he's already got the files......why can't he just give 'em up?
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02/08/2010 09:07:00 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Go with Paul's advice. If you are wondering about a price, always try to get the client to make a first offer. If things go as they have, he will offer something quite low. At that point you can "educate" him about the value of digital files and then up his offer to a number you think is better but won't scare him away. If he goes for it you will have obtained the maxiumum amount of money the job could have given you. Every client has a different price and there is no use trying to go after money that just isn't there. |
Problem is when the client thinks that there is no more money to give, and hey......it's not like he has to do any more work, he's already got the files......why can't he just give 'em up? |
Sure. Then you channel Nancy Reagan and "Just say no". |
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02/08/2010 09:37:28 PM · #9 |
I told him $350 for all images with release or $25 per each.
He came back asking about print costs :) |
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02/08/2010 10:37:43 PM · #10 |
one thing you might want to do to plan for the future is to sit down with one of my best friends...Excel ;-)
just lay out a whole bunch of different scenarios and work out reasonable pricing. these are carved in stone prices, they are just guidelines that take into consideration all sorts of things, like multiple prints of the same image, volume discounts, single image print charges, etc.
in a situation like this, i don't mind grabbing an extra shot or two or three...if i'm roughly within the amount of time i had allowed for the job. if things are changing enough that it is going to affect my schedule, i'll hunt down my contact and suggest that we're heading into overtime, and tell them i hope they don't mind that they're going to be billed a little extra.
i typically don't provide digital files, except to pick up sales i'd lose otherwise. at the moment i only offer:
* online profile images (fb, mysp, etc), roughly 150px x 200px for $5-6
* screensaver/wallpaper images for about 80% the price of an 8x10 (lo-res, not processed for print)
* make your own small stuff (sized for luggage tags, fridge magnets, coffee mugs, etc) for little more than 90% of an 8x10
sure, the digital files *could* be upsized and made into something bigger, and that might happen; but, at least i'm getting something that i woudln't have gotten otherwise.
and, if someone's already paid me for a print, especially a bunch of prints, i don't even think twice about throwing something extra in the bag.
as far as your situation goes, if you're just getting started, this is all no big deal. you have to work through situations like this in order to get a handle on what can happen. i got creamed on my first golf tournament. i did make a few bucks, but not nearly as much as i should have. but i learned what i needed to know in order to be able to offer that particular service profitably going forward. one thing to keep in mind is separating the shooting component from the printing component; there's nothing wrong with charging a reasonable hourly rate for shooting and then offering a steep discount for the prints. there's a bazillion different ways to price your packaging. the trick is to make it justifiable so that when the scope starts to change, you can manage it without taking a beating. ;-)
cheers!
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