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DPChallenge Forums >> Business of Photography >> What makes people think they can change the scope
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 02/08/2010 06:56:04 PM · #1
.....and not expect to pay additionally for the additional work?

I was just reading Hawkeye's thread and it's happened to me, and just about everyone I know.

"Yeah, this is the price, and that's all we need you to do."

You get there, and it's, "Hey, we came up with this idea and while you're here we'd like you to shoot X and such, too.".

And then they expect it as part of the deal, they want the digital files when you told them prints only.......

WTF makes people think they can just roll over you and get what they want especially when it requires extra work and/or something (Like the files!) that were *NOT* contracted for as part of the original deal?
 02/08/2010 06:59:17 PM · #2
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

WTF makes people think they can just roll over you and get what they want


you look like an easy target

either that or elton john ;)

Message edited by author 2010-02-08 19:00:33.
 02/08/2010 07:39:08 PM · #3
Originally posted by smardaz:
snipe


Wonder where he got his username.........
 02/08/2010 07:56:10 PM · #4
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
WTF makes people think they can just roll over you and get what they want ...

Nice guys like you saying OK ...?
 02/08/2010 08:06:21 PM · #5
It's called negotiation... :P
 02/08/2010 08:19:45 PM · #6
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
It's called negotiation... :P

The negotiation already happened. If you do extra tests on a patient, is there an additional charge involved, or is it gratis?

Message edited by author 2010-02-08 20:20:00.
 02/08/2010 08:43:28 PM · #7
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
It's called negotiation... :P

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
The negotiation already happened. If you do extra tests on a patient, is there an additional charge involved, or is it gratis?

That's *exactly* what I'm talking about!

You decide you wants more tests run, you're gonna get charged......

You want fries with that?

Anyone ever think the fries were gonna be free?
 02/08/2010 09:08:07 PM · #8
Years ago, I used to repair peoples computers in their home under warranty.

I came to hate the phrase, "See while you're here...".
 02/08/2010 09:10:37 PM · #9
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
It's called negotiation... :P

The negotiation already happened. If you do extra tests on a patient, is there an additional charge involved, or is it gratis?


Oh, I know, I know. I'm not saying anybody need do anything for free. But in the world of capitalism uber alles the goal of the seller is to exact as high a price as possible while the goal of the buyer is to pay as low a price (or get the maximum service).

That's all theory, of course. The reality is very like the the guy just isn't thinking very hard or interprets the contract to be much more general than it actually is. I'm not defending him, I'm just pointing out that it isn't really so surprising to encounter such behavior. It's the nature of the society we live in.

Message edited by author 2010-02-08 21:11:09.
 02/08/2010 09:21:52 PM · #10
Have you heard of NO? : )
 02/08/2010 09:27:28 PM · #11
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'm just pointing out that it isn't really so surprising to encounter such behavior. It's the nature of the society we live in.

Agreed. This is capitalism.
 02/08/2010 09:52:14 PM · #12
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'm just pointing out that it isn't really so surprising to encounter such behavior. It's the nature of the society we live in.

Agreed. This is capitalism.


As barn manager for several years at one facility in particular, I know for a fact that vets and farriers dreaded coming to our place. Say they were booked to see 5 horses. Well, by the time they left, they had usually seen at least an extra 2-3 horses that the facility's owner had me run and pull out of the field for them - screwing up my schedule and pissing off the vet/farrier, not so much because it would then scew up their schedule while they stood around waiting for me to bring back said beastie, but more because they had to listen to the facility owner, who'd be yakking away like she knew more about them than they did. She'd argue with the vet about the diagnosis of anything and everything, and try to tell the farrier what shoes to put on. As her employee, you can well imagine the crap I had to deal with, day after day, for 7 years. I stopped working there 2.5 years ago and don't miss it a bit!
 02/08/2010 10:03:40 PM · #13
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
It's the nature of the society we live in.

I hope that you're just making a knee'jerk remark there, because I find this to be more the exception than the rule, and for some odd reason, more of an issue with photoghraphy than other lines of work.

When I was in the car industry, people knew that if they wanted more work done, it would cost more, and like I said above, nobody thinks the fries are free.

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Oh, I know, I know. I'm not saying anybody need do anything for free. But in the world of capitalism uber alles the goal of the seller is to exact as high a price as possible while the goal of the buyer is to pay as low a price (or get the maximum service).

I'd really like to think that it's more that the seller would like to get top dollar......not necessarily as much as he can, and I know when I pay for a service, I'm much more interested in getting the best service, not everything I can weasel out of the other guy.

Maybe that's my problem.....I just don't think like a mercenary slut or a cheapskate with an entitlement attitude. I believe in fair trade, and that isn't a competition to better the other guy, it's establishing a relationship. You may need each other again some day.


02/08/2010 10:48:26 PM · #14
it's simply human nature to see what you can get away with. if you think you can kill two birds with one stone, you try.

a lot of it is a matter of managing relationships, or better, managing boundaries. if you let people push you around, they will. if you let people know something is extra, they'll either go for it or they'll pass. if they think you're all about the money, nickle-and-diming them all the time, sooner or later they'll be looking for someone else. if they think you're all about giving them great service, they'll pay you more just to get what you have...
 02/08/2010 10:53:47 PM · #15
Originally posted by love:
Have you heard of NO? : )


No.
 02/09/2010 01:11:19 AM · #16
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

When I was in the car industry, people knew that if they wanted more work done, it would cost more, and like I said above, nobody thinks the fries are free.


thats kind of a bad example, if there is one industry where someone is going to try and get more for less, its a car
 02/09/2010 01:36:23 AM · #17
In industry, it's called "scope creep". It's annoying as hell, but it forces you to be very specific about what the customer is paying for and when they start asking for more, you simply tell them that's beyond the terms of the original agreement, but you're willing to re-negotiate, but that it will impact the cost and possibly the scheduling. That's when you see if they're serious or just trying to get something for nothing.
 02/09/2010 03:51:06 AM · #18
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
...and for some odd reason, more of an issue with photoghraphy than other lines of work.


Not true. Web development, Consulting, Wedding planning, videography services, etc etc - any service industry has to deal with this. My personal feeling (having have dealt with this for 10+ years) is that they are not wrong for asking for things - it is how you respond and what you let them get away with and as Skip said, it is all about managing the relationship. My brother is a wedding videographer and he handles this much better than I do - if a client asks for something extra, he says something like "I am very happy to do that for you and I can add the just add the cost to the final invoice." I try to use change orders as a tool, but I often give a lot of extra work away for valued clients and at least half the time it results in future work and/or referrals.

my two pennies anywho.
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